podcasts
Whitney Webb critiques the U.S. political and financial systems, exposing the alliance of corporate and government interests.
In this episode of TFTC, Whitney Webb and Mark Goodwin critique the American financial and political systems, focusing on how a "uni-party" alliance of Democrats and Republicans serves elite corporate interests, with BlackRock's influence as a key example. She argues that BlackRock's role in shaping COVID-19 fiscal policy facilitated a massive wealth transfer benefiting Wall Street over the general public. Webb also warns that stablecoins, like CBDCs, could compromise Bitcoin’s decentralized principles by giving governments and corporations greater surveillance capabilities over financial transactions. The episode further discusses the expansion of a surveillance state, where technologies like wearable health devices enable close monitoring of individual behaviors, creating a digital infrastructure for public compliance across health, finance, and social spheres. Webb calls for public vigilance and grassroots change to counteract the systemic control that both political parties appear to reinforce.
This episode serves as both a critique of U.S. political and financial systems and a call for action against systemic complacency. Webb and Goodwin explore the deep-rooted connections between government and corporate powers, especially concerning economic policy, surveillance, and digital currency. Through examples like BlackRock's influence over U.S. fiscal responses and the push for stablecoins as tools of dollar hegemony, the episode reveals the vulnerabilities within current financial and political structures. At its core, the discussion underscores the importance of grassroots activism, as Webb advocates for bottom-up change over reliance on political figures. This perspective is a reminder that vigilance and collective effort are essential to countering the expanding reach of corporate and state control.
0:00 - Intro
1:43 - Trump savior narrative
10:59 - Bitkey & Coinkite
12:57 - Trump coalition
22:02 - Epstein blackmail on both sides
31:36 - SOTE
32:09 - A new form of intelligence agency
50:51 - Stablecoin CBDCs
1:03:36 - Trump’s policy’s and cabinet appointments
1:13:16 - Politicians learning from bitcoin
1:18:46 - Big pharma and problems with deregulation
1:25:53 - Back to stablecoins
1:46:37 - Justifying crackdowns, Ross and Samurai
(00:00) the next president who we know now will be Trump is going to face some sort of US Government debt crisis when Trump was in office last time Black Rock designed us fiscal response to co that they began implementing before a pandemic was even declared and it resulted in one of the biggest wealth transfers in American history and printed more money than at any other time in US history I've been really skeptical that that won't repeat itself and so you're already seeing sort of signaling that someone like Mike Pompeo been fielded for Secretary of
(00:28) Defense are some figures that have neoconservative B I mean they worked with Obama during ' 08 they worked with Trump and they worked with Biden and would have worked with Kamala their track record is basically stealing wealth from the public why why did we all forget this every four years this is the most important election we have to go vote we all believe in elections again I think that the uni party is going to do what it wants to do it's this purple party entity investigative journalist Whitney Webb in researcher Mark Goodwin just
(00:56) pulled back the curtain on America's fake democracy and how both Republicans and Democrats serve the same Masters now they're about to reveal why stable coins might be the biggest threat to bitcoin they are actively putting dollar instruments into the Bitcoin blockchain they're creating all of these ways to create dollars on Lightning stable coins have the potential to be just as programmable and surveill as a cbdc could be in the fed and the National Security Community meaning the CIA among other agencies have been very open that
(01:27) that stable coins will ensure dollar hegemony from Black Rock to Bitcoin from elections to surveillance in the next 90 minutes web and Goodwin reveal the full story of what's coming and how you can stay prepared Whitney and Mark welcome back to the show hey great to be here Marty always a pleasure yeah thanks a lot we've got a lot to cover what should we start with whatever you want let's talk about this week it's timely the election just happened people are very bullish in the Bitcoin world uh obviously I follow
(02:02) you too on Twitter you are signaling that that people may be uh walking into the Viper den and let's just talk about it what what do you think the outcome of the election means for the future of America particularly Bitcoin as a subsect of of potential policy under Trump Administration what are we walking into well I just want to start off with saying that I definitely empath empathize with the view just like I did in 2016 in other elections uh you know that the Trump ticket was the lesser of two evils but I think after the first
(02:41) Trump term in the precedent set by campaign rhetoric versus policy action in that first term um you know I've been really skeptical that um that won't repeat itself right um and so you're already seeing you know since Trump was elected sort of these uh you know sort of signaling that you know Mike someone like Mike pompe or some figures that have neoconservative bents um you know like Marco Rubio is being considered for a cabinet position Mike Pompeo has been fielded for Secretary of Defense um people that worked right under Pompeo uh
(03:13) are have been tapped to lead the transition team for the state department things of that nature um you know this um the apparent signaling and claims from people like Howard lutnick co-chair of the Trump transition team that RFK isn't really going to have any role um in any sort of HHS or HS sub agency um you know are these the beginning signs of backpedaling it's uh you know I think it's fair to be skeptical and be vigilant um and you know particularly what I would warn against is um the idea that now that the lesser of two evils
(03:45) has won now is the time to sit back and just let things um happen and not hold anyone's feet to the fire and not ensure um accountability um because I think that's you know a recipe for dis for disaster frankly uh when people are are complacent and to trust and consistently politicians abuse that um and there's a very long long truck record of that happening in American politics with both parties right um and so um what I would and and what I've been saying a lot since the election is that complacency um and and the efforts to
(04:18) manufacture it um are uh dangerous I would say and what I'm concerned about is that the people that were most against a lot of this these efforts to um undermine our freedoms a lot of them uh being on the right for example or people that were you know dissident of the co era and Co era policies you know um and gun owners for example who obviously have an a way to impact uh you know the the the fate of the country if things were ever to get really um you know tyrannical uh you know if they're overly trusting of the federal
(04:52) government they're more likely to be um you know complacent um and sort of just sit back and not really do anything because they trust the person that um is in power and um unfortunately I think there's bipartisan agendas that even with like you know in 2016 Republicans also sweep the leg legislature they took the executive branch but it didn't result in the populist platform that was necessarily promised so I think you know if people don't uh want to ensure that the country does go on a better track um there needs to be um you know push back
(05:25) and people need to not just you know sit back in their armchairs and uh trust the plan or what have you um and need to really uh ensure that you know like I've said for a long time since I get accused of not offering any solutions you know I've said for a really long time and for many years on on your show and in other shows that I have long believed uh that change is going to come from the bottom up not the top down um and that people need to really ensure and focus on their local communities on local resilience um
(05:55) and on building out Alternatives that can help us resist a lot of these uh technocratic um you know agendas that seek to micromanage and control you know essentially every aspect of Our Lives yep yeah I totally agree with that I mean last time we were on here we were like oh Trump's going to win obviously he's going to dominate it's going to be a landslide be we were obviously correct and I mean I think it's it it's it's very helpful for I we all know it's a uni party like what do we why did we all forget this every four
(06:26) years you know that seems to be this is the most important election this is we have to go vote it's like we all believe in elections again we all believe in in you know Democratic uh you know process here in America after what we've you know kind of experienced basically our whole lives and this you know we're all kind of 911 kids and here we are kind of like trusting the government again I feel like there's a lot of people God damn it all right sorry about that are we back yeah it should be working you said Trump's going to win a landslide
(06:55) earlier Yeah well yeah I mean I think I Echo pretty much what Whitney just said last time we were on here it was like well Trump's obviously going to win that's obviously what happened um and I think you know maybe a lot of the things that have happened you know the last few years have been kind of setting up for this like huge populist movement um you know that was again curated by oligarchs uh social network billionaires all these people that kind of control these these like DARPA cutouts and these projects
(07:24) and um you know these social networks gearing up to be you know like in X's case half the financial system you know whatever we have we have all these guys working together working on their podcast strategy that was talked about By Dana White during the acceptance speech um and it was a huge part of the of the election cycle um and if you look at it you know I don't really believe in elections uh I thought we kind of all agreed on that I I I think that the uni party is going to do what it wants to do it's this purple party entity um this
(07:54) idea that there's really this dueling faction between the two of them I think that's just really uh you know it's like wrestling I think it's really just this kind of like scripted um thing that they give to the masses politics have become bread in Circus and now we all get geared up and they use it to divide ourselves you know to to divide um the masses and they you know I think as Whitney said very prudently specifically kind of aiming this this Q uh Trump as a savior stuff at the dissonant armed group in America um you know they
(08:26) they've been able to sort of manufacture complacency and consent for what they're going to do now and I think Trump has you know he has this huge mandate now it's very obvious everyone feels it he's you know swept you know all three important elements of of the uh American government system um and now we're going to see what what he's going to do so it's not like the whole election cycle I was going around being like how dare you vote for Trump but it's over it's done here we are if you believe in elections
(08:53) and you want to vote that's great uh you like Trump fine um but the state hates you um um they are murderers terrorists they throw good people in jail like the state put Ross in jail Trump was President for four years didn't free Ross let's get him out of here yeah that's a great win um but I really think the mindset should be let's hold these people as accountable as possible let's not you know I was going to say something gross there let's not you know dust them you know their undercarriages you know let's let's hold them to the
(09:23) fire um that's what we need to do um and I think that there is such a an opportunity here when there is a popular Uprising and a movement unfortunately I feel like it was really captured into this controlled pen you know back to the electoral system back to the state back to you know poppy warps speed being our savior and that's just I think kind of ridiculous as whatney said it comes from us from the people so let's take this movement that there are a lot of truths in in this movement that I think that I do agree with um there are elements of
(09:54) freedom and libertarianism and even Anarchy tossed around in this in this Maga um but but ultimately I think the mechanisms are not what I agree with I don't I don't want the state to have any more power the only thing I agree that Eric Prince has ever said is let's keep the government as far away from Bitcoin as possible I don't like this the government moving into Bitcoin stuff I don't want the government to have a Bitcoin stash like them I want them to get smaller and and get you know this is an opportunity to the financial
(10:22) system up I don't want them to part of it let's let them collapse it like get smaller forced to get smaller because they have to cuz they can't compete with the big Bitcoin standard that's what we've been like arguing for so long so a long-winded rant here but it's a moment to push back it's not a moment to to celebrate a win that hasn't even happened yet um in in many ways you know these policies hasn't happened we don't know the platform we don't know who's in the cabinet yet um so let's be very very very uh you know uh smart uh and just
(10:53) push back when we have the opportunity to um and not let the state just take over again I kind of think it's that straightforward sup freaks this rip of tftc was brought to you by our good friends at bit key bit key makes Bitcoin easy to use and hard to lose it is a hardware wallet that natively embeds into a two three multisig you have one key on the hardware wallet one key on your mobile device and block stores a key in the cloud for you this is an incredible Hardware device for your friends and family or maybe yourself who have
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(12:50) MK4 cold card Q go to coin kite.com use the code tftc we have a code now tftc for 5% off at checkout yeah I I think I completely agree with the the idea that we shouldn't be complacent and we should be vigilant we should be holding these people accountable and to your point about Ross I think that's the first thing that I'll be looking for day one does he get free all right there's some accountability and I mean I voted for the first time ever in this election I voted for Trump and this Coalition because it does seem like and maybe I'm
(13:24) becoming uh enthralled with the narrative and the the posture of this Coalition but it I think the promise of making a smaller government uh is what enticed me the most and so obviously we've talked at length about Elon and many people surrounding Trump uh in the lead up to this election and now that they're surrounding him uh in his current Administration I think there's uh more reason than ever to be completely Vigilant and make sure these people are being held accountable but that is what I'll be looking for is are
(13:59) they actually taking action to gut the administrative state that has quelled uh the ability for people to live free um and when it comes to bitcoin too like I would push back on I mean I don't want the government making rules about Bitcoin obviously at the consensus level but when it comes to like the United States government acquiring a strategic Reserve this has always been part of the game theory the Bitcoin bitcoiners have talked about for 16 years maybe not US Government specifically but uh for 16 years now the
(14:37) the the game theory has been it's going to start with individuals companies are going to adopt it pensions are going to adopt it and then ultimately governments are going to be forced to adopt the better money and I actually do think it is a means to manufacture a smaller government in the long term because the way the debt is set up uh it it has to grow it's a leviathan that is forced to grow and if you have no actionable way to actually reduce the debt the government's just going to be forced to issue more debt get bigger and well what
(15:09) if Bitcoin is the way to do that I mean Trump's kind of straight up said that this is how we pay the debt oh okay exactly so like that maybe that is the roundabout way that you actually make government smaller in the long run is you find a solution to solve the debt problem and the Leviathan just simply doesn't have the the means to or it's not that it doesn't have the means to continue growing it's just just the way it's set up now with the the federal debt it is forced to expand that reach and that misallocation of capital and
(15:41) that abuse of power I'm hopeful I'm I'm white pelled right now because and then you have other things like uh I do think the populist movement is certainly there and I think what we saw in terms of the overwhelming message that was sent with this election again you mentioned taking the the house the Senate and the White House I think that that is a signal from the American people like we're fed up of this uni party and the other high signal in my mind is the fact that this happened in spite or despite the overwhelming propaganda machine that got
(16:19) put in in the place of the mainstream corporate media over the last four years but particularly last three months yeah but don't I mean I totally I think that there this is a um you know we wrote about this like in January with token iink of kind of this idea of the the pivot has happened where now it's you know it's it's advantageous for that group that used to control the mainstream media um and the electoral process um you know now they're pivoting to podcast strategies right buou is tweeting out being like hey I talked to
(16:53) Trump we talked about podcasts Dana White's talking about like this that is the new media and I think that there is an opportunity there but also it's like let's not just bait and switch and replace it with these you know agents that are that that serve kind of similar Powers you know you look at the Weinstein brothers and people like that you know like you know they're Edge they're Edge group people they're uh you know they're teal Capital managers um and here they are kind of they completely got Co wrong at the beginning
(17:20) when it mattered now here they are you know acting like they got it right at the first time and The Joe Rogan of the world you know you're kind of seeing uh you know maybe these aren't you know that much better than the Don Lemons and and Brian seltzers and CNN you know it's just a new apparatus um and so obviously there's been this big shift we've seen it with Malay um you know obviously we're seeing it with Trump again round two that this is now the the more useful narrative um is to push towards these um
(17:50) you know this direction now that you know they basically did what they did with the co era policy which was to you know in in in August and September of 2019 when the repo Market explodes Trump gets together with his money manager Larry Fin and they come up with a plan of basically how to get all this money to go right to Wall Street not to Main Street um and then they Crush demand and lock down the country and push these you know deregulate these Pharma products and push them out um in this way that was they print more money than anyone
(18:21) has ever printed in the history of the United States or the world you know they crushed aand by locking us all in our houses this was this was all scripted before the virus uh you know was dropping out uh was running rampid event what was it called event um was the game the war game they ran oh right before Co event 2011 201 but this specific plan with with think was was the going direct plan and this was done you know this this was you know a a plan this was absolutely you know this they had to address this issue of of the debt how do
(18:53) you do it well let's print all this money lock down the economy so that we Crush inflation as much as possible crushing demand and then we use these trillions of dollars that has no ability to go into checkings accounts and into Main Street and use it to buy up all the Assets in the world um we'll bring Bitcoin down to $3,000 at 20xs in a year onshore all of this Bitcoin under the United States move everything into a deflationary economic system now that we have it all um and then we we start pushing a completely different um
(19:22) economic and political system um onto the people uh you know using these these New Media formats um and now everyone thinks it's this you know huge exciting win that you know the government is adopting these things they want to cut um all these people in the government and bring it down it's like well of course they do now they have everything they have all the assets they have all the technology they have the drones to set up the border and to set up their citadels uh they have uh you know enough Bitcoin to literally pay off the debt if
(19:50) they want to hyperinflate into the the dollar into Bitcoin um and I think that's really what we kind of explored in this chain series was the idea of maybe this was all a huge plan um and maybe while yes there is I think a net good that comes from deflationary uh monetary system I think ultimately that is a good thing it's less important you know who is Satoshi and more important who is Boshi who has all the Bitcoin where is it and when you kind of explore and look at the people that were really there that built these
(20:23) things from a regulatory standpoint and a custody standpoint um these people are heavily connected to the the the intelligence State um teal specifically and a lot of these people that actually have a huge role in the Trump Administration and so I think it was very obvious and telegraphed you know you know specifically Trump specifically stable coins you know I've been writing about this for you know three and a half years now that this is what's going to happen Trump is going to Pivot and go right towards Bitcoin look at what he
(20:50) actually did um you know I don't think it's an accident that I was right about all those things it's they were that's what they were doing they were just saying something else so I've learned to not trust what they say and see what they do um and I think you know when you explore that um I think you can absolutely make a case which I have repeatedly um that there's actually a lot to benefit the Empire of the United States with a monetary expansion into Bitcoin of course they can't dilute it they can't control it there's a lot of
(21:18) things they can't do that's great um but they can pay off the debt and continue us Empire with stable coins and you know private issued tokens on public blockchains it's a Boon for surveillance as a former CIA director would say so um I think there's a lot to sort of unpack about maybe we haven't won yet we're all going to be rich now it's awesome but maybe we haven't won yet uh and there's still a huge War to be fought and so I think that they are manufacturing that complacency the same thing they did with
(21:46) Q uh going into the pandemic you know that to just get us all to sit in our chairs and be like Patriots are in control they're arresting the pedos like here we go did that really happen has that happened um how people on Twitter still think so yeah but like how do how do these people fight you know they fight with law fair they they uh you know the uh this champion of free markets Peter teal this libertarian uh God here who's really the guy kind of running a lot of these things you know he took down Gawker using law fair and and Suits
(22:21) after you know the story is after they kind of released some personal stuff about his life um and maybe his sexual orientation and some stuff but really it was because they published the Epstein list yeah uh the the year they went after him was the year that Gawker was the first publication to make public the Epstein black book um and at the time Peter teal was meeting with Epstein pretty consistently between 2014 and 2015 so hard to know really what what the reason was but people were definitely not happy that that black
(22:51) book came out because the person who uh you know obtained it was actually Epstein's Butler and he was you know killed off in prison in 201 15 the same year so um kind of complicated stuff and as far as uh Peter teal being a free market libertarian uh he's pretty open well he's on video and in writings has said that he uh doesn't like free market competition it's actually for losers he thinks and that his definition of a capitalist is someone who acrs uh Capital so someone that believes in free market capitalism but isn't um a
(23:21) millionaire to Peter teal isn't really is isn't really a capitalist very much like someone like Reed Hoffman you know who backed Kamala for example would be more of a capitalist um to Peter teal than someone like yourself Marty yeah yeah it's been like the Epstein Diddy stuff leading up to it you look at the leviathon that backed Cala specifically Reed Hoffman on the list as well like it seems like there was anybody was at Diddy parties or on the list I think there's also um you know it's not it didn't just happen with
(23:56) Diddy it also happened with Epstein there's been a deliberate effort effort in my opinion uh to cultivate the perception that the only uh people that are sexually compromised or that are uh pedophiles um in the United States are celebrities and Democrats only when it is if you look at the evidence and I wrote a thousand page book that goes over the history of sexual blackmail operations including those involving children um it's very clearly both parties and probably no uh government was more guilty of that than the Reagan
(24:25) Bush ERA with the Franklin Scandal um and a lot of the other things that were you know overson as part of that or like Iran Contra drug trafficking uh helping facilitate BCCI which the US Senate report admits was also a sex trafficking minors to Elites of the United Arab Emirates including prepubescent children right so this is something that has consistently been both parties and um you know the idea that it's only one partisan side um I think is is very complicated and ultimately not true and could potentially be used for for
(24:58) trouble in um ends and as far you know I have an article that I haven't finished yet cuz I've had a lot of other stuff going on um about you know the overlaps between the Epstein and Diddy networks um and it's really not exclusively partisan and there's a lot of very deliberate overlaps uh the biggest one being I guess Ron burkel who owns the Kroger supermarkets between the two who hasn't even been discussed at all even though he was a big Clinton Doner why does his name not get brought up but it's like you know a lot of focus on you
(25:27) know bigname celebrities perhaps um and you know Democrat candidates but you know Ron burkel was also all over the Epstein Clinton flights don't you think that people would want to call that out um it's kind of weird that his name's been left out of it and there's other names as well that have been um you know left out of it too you know I would argue unfortunately but I I you know again I think it's part of this effort to sort of sensationalize um you know the very real scandals around Epstein and and Diddy
(25:55) and you know uh scandals like that and trying sort of make it more of a spectacle and have people be like oh look at these evil uh naughty celebrities and not really look at how our uh government has consistently enabled this type of behavior why is the FBI or the F you know the government only going after these people when they did uh when most of their crimes were committed many many years ago um I mean there's a lot of you know things I could I guess add to that but essentially you know I don't really like that it's being
(26:25) treated as partisan when the historical record very clearly shows it's a bipartisan disease and that both parties have been uh very compromised uh by it for a long time that it's essentially something that was done uh through this uh Unholy Alliance if you will between organized crime and intelligence agencies uh which as I've you know I note a lot in my book with a lot of facts to back it up you can't really tell where organized crime and intelligence agencies end and began um you know they're you know for all
(26:56) intents and purposes um the same and so um and I think it's complicated too that you have people like um this uh figure named Chuck Johnson who's very close to Peter teal actually had Peter teal become an FBI informant at his behest um you know openly saying that Jeffrey Epstein was actually a patriot and gain Maxwell should be released from prison um and and things of that nature like is there going to be um a Rebrand or something um you know by in media operatives that have ties you know to the state of Israel for example epine
(27:29) was also tied to trying to Rebrand their guy as someone that was just trying to keep the dims from doing the wrong things or something like that I don't know but why is someone saying that um you know personally I find that stuff kind of concerning and a lot of you know uh hints from people like Megan Kelly that we be hearing from Epstein really soon and there's going to be a big twist in in the story um you know I just really don't trust the partisan uh bent of that personally I think it's going to be uh misused and it doesn't fit with
(27:58) the facts frankly um is it true that there are very problematic people involved in these scandals at back Cala absolutely absolutely uh Reed Hoffman obviously being the most obvious uh but it's fair to say that Peter teal and also Elon Musk um you know have their Epstein ties as well um it just hasn't been um I guess of Interest as much um to people in certain media circles but you know there's definitely um facts pointing to that um a lot of them I've discussed in my book some came out after my book was published when a lot of
(28:31) these Discovery documents from the usbi case against JP Morgan as it related to Epstein uh were you know sort of released at least aspects of the more by The Wall Street Journal which also illuminated the extent to which he met with Reed Hoffman but you know that was the first time that it was officially confirmed that Peter teal met extensively what I've seen previously it was you know I had to speculate about that for the purpose of my book because there were plenty of indicators suggesting that was the case now we know
(28:57) it's the case and there's a lot that hasn't come out you know about Epstein and there's still not a lot of interest in Epstein in particular um on the financial crime angle of that which I think is really significant um and you know the fact that they make it sort of the sensationalized uh uh salacious uh story that it's you know uh all about just um these terrible saxx and stuff it's it's a lot bigger Story and there's not a lot of interest in in going after it I think because a lot of the people implicated
(29:27) are some of the biggest people in con Valley uh Elon Musk Sergey Bren and Larry pagee were all subpoena as part of that as part of that Epstein case um Tom pritsker of the priter family and these are people that you know play both sides of the political divide also uh but they all seem to have that uh you know behind them and sometime you know it may not be convenient um you know you have Elon Musk going out saying like Reed Hoffman should be very afraid um you know about the information about EP coming out uh
(30:00) but you know as I said earlier and as I've said on other podcasts um and as noted in my book Elon Musk had business ties um with Jeffrey Epstein and with subpoena as part of this you know banking probe into the financing uh or his connections to JP Morgan and other things which is not just the sex trafficking thing it's also connected with the financial crime aspect of it uh because if you look into a lot of 's financial stuff um you know he was involved in essentially collapsing bear be Sterns which was essentially executed
(30:29) intentionally as part of you know the' 08 um uh crisis and then you know he switches Banks to JP Morgan and that's the bank that buys up be Stern's all of their assets for pennies on the dollar and you know when Epstein popped one of uh be Stern's most one of their most overleveraged funds um you know which helped which essentially created the conditions that led to be Stern's uh collapsing you know people were like well he lost a lot of money but as uh as the Martins reported on Wall Street on Parade uh he also got a you know
(31:00) essentially a secret you know multi-million dollar bailout from the Fed so he didn't really lose any money you know and you know you don't hear the stuff discussed about Epstein you don't hear um mentions about Diddy teaming up with the bramman family or the Lauder family he absolutely did and there are connections of that of course to the Epstein Scandal is as is noted in my book but again it's a focus on sensationalism and trying to use it for partisan means and ultimately when we we play those games everyone ends up losing
(31:30) because we're not getting to the truth of the matter and by not getting to the truth of the matter we're unable to root out this evil from our society this rip was also brought to you by our good friends at salt of the earth you got to be hydrating Freaks and while you're hydrating you got to be getting your electrolytes this is the best electrolytes mix that I've ever come into contact with uh Pink Himalayan salt with calcium magnesium potassium sodium no sugar it tastes incredible my favorite is the orange and the pink
(31:57) lemonade go to drink.com that's drinks.com use the code tftc when you make your purchase and you'll get 15% off I'm telling you get on it freaks you're going to love this stuff well on this note anchoring back to accountability vigilance you mentioned Megan Kelly I saw cash Patel I believe his name is I forget what show he was on he was saying they're going to release the upstein and Diddy files what um so in terms of accountability how in your mind would an Epstein Diddy List information be disclosed properly which
(32:38) all the inform like how how would you like to see like what would make you sufficiently um happy with with like a a disclosure of the Epstein Diddy stuff well I would like them to release all the files and that includes on things that the government will never release information on like chinate for example uh where Epstein uh on behalf of the state of Israel helped facilitate the transfer sensitive military technology to China um you know through um um well it was a very elaborate scheme I've written about it in in my book pretty
(33:12) extensively it was really the Iran Contra Network sort of retooling themselves uh for the benefit of uh creating what Samuel pisar who's very close well Anthony Lincoln stepfather for one thing but he was also Robert Maxwell's Confidant he talked about to Congress about the that the world was turning into what he called a trans ideological uh Corporation where the corporate uh sector of the United States was merging with the state-owned uh companies of the Communist block so China and Russia and that's essentially
(33:40) what China Gate uh was furthering because a key part of creating that of binding these state-owned companies and the Communist block and the private sector in the west was built around technology transfer which is essentially what um you know China Gate was about and that um even though conservatives uh remember are the only one only party of course that remembers China Gate they remember it as a campaign Finance Scandal not a military uh what you know a military Scandal fundamentally right um so um there'd have to be a lot of
(34:12) things that come out and again I don't think they're interested and I don't think they will uh release information that relates to financial crimes um or any of really of the intelligence activities um of Epstein and um I don't know I mean we'll see what ends up getting released but keep in mind you know when Trump campaigned in 2016 he campaigned in part I mean on many things obviously but one of them was you know about sort of releasing uh you know JFK files which was a campaign promise that was released this time and when it came
(34:44) around to it in his first term he declined to uh release uh a significant amount of documents some came out but one many notable ones that people had been waiting for were not released at the last minute and I can't remember exactly what Trump said but it was something to the effect of um if you had seen what I had seen you wouldn't release them either or something like that uh but then you know repeats The Promise This cycle that he's going to um you know put all these assassination files and all of these uh government
(35:12) secrets out there um and yeah unfortunately I'm a little bit skeptical of that uh just because that uh of the fact that some people close to um Trump or that have backed Trump uh figures from the Reagan Bush era for example like Ed me who was an to Trump uh during his first term or someone like Oliver North um who you know was a key figure in Iran Contra and people forget that he you know created a a domestic Terror watch list essentially uh that included people on the left on the right that could be rounded up and essentially put
(35:45) into camps if the government ever declared a a vague state of emergency you know this is not a freedom guy um you know these people have you know been supportive and been influential on some of the policy decisions that were made last time and and unfortunately the Trump Administration just like all the the bush Obama and Biden administrations really every Administration since the new century started have advanced the war on domestic Terror um which is essentially you know in terms of of software it's run by paler uh which has
(36:15) you know an outsized influence on the current um you know Trump Administration as we discussed last time and um you know um that's very complicated uh for uh because the war on domestic terrorism to be weaponized about against dissidents on both sides of the political aisle ultimately at the end of the day and so uh obviously the Democrats have their plans to weaponize it against certain demographics uh but that doesn't mean Trump won't be doing it either uh because he's already essentially said that you know
(36:45) anti-semitic speech is going to be um challenged or what he deems anti-semitic speech but now that the definition of anti-semitism has been expanded to criticisms of you know a foreign government um you know not being allowed to criticize that foreign government how far is that going to go and what impacts is that going to have for example in discussing something like the Epstein case um and how would that impact that type of viewpoint um impact what types of epin files are released versus other ones you know I mean I I would you know
(37:15) anticipate just because of um Trump's rather um slavish deference to Israel um that any sort of you know the connections that are clearly there uh between epin and the Israeli State I do not really anticipate a lot coming out on that you know maybe some more information on the Epstein Clinton relationship which is absolutely terrible uh Epstein of course also had his own relationship to Trump uh that should honestly be more controversial than it probably is uh while it's true they parted ways and you know the mid
(37:44) 2000s or so which was mainly over a a competition over a Palm Beach real estate property that neither of them ended up uh getting and uh was questionable in in numerous ways um yes they did part ways but it doesn't mean that they didn't uh do things of a questionable nature together before that there weren't red flags about their relationship prior to that um point in time and you know obviously Trump has a very checkered past and a lot of his uh supporters you know forgive that and say it's a new you know that he's a new man
(38:15) and all of this stuff and I don't really uh care what people believe that but that doesn't necessarily change uh you know what happened what may have happened in the 1990s or the 1980s or you know things of of that nature um I don't know sorry I've been rambling for a while but I would certainly like to see all of the documents come out but the government has never done that will it be different this time um you know given what happened with the JFK file release under Trump again I am skeptical uh I would very much like to be wrong
(38:44) any document that comes out I'm sure will be helpful uh but with you know people like Elon Musk and and Peter teal and and people you know like that relatively close to Trump it's very unlikely that any documents implicating their connection with Epstein or or that would shed light on that you know maybe they do a selective release you know I'm mad at Reed Hoffman he back Camala so we'll put out more on him I don't know um again it remains to be seen uh but you know I certainly would like to see more um transparency but uh the way that foyer
(39:16) requests are currently handled um you know I'm I'm not I'm not very hopeful I mean frankly uh one of the key guys in the Clinton Administration on China Gate Mark Middleton who was killed off in the middle of the the Epstein Scandal sort of unfolding in 2019 he supposedly hung himself in an extension cord and and shot himself in the chest with a shotgun you know um got to be really sure we've all done that it's easy yeah uh I I've had a fo multiple foyer requests into the Clinton Presidential Library they have folders on Mark Middleton
(39:48) crickets they don't want certain stuff to come out you know crickets like not even uh we can't give you this just nothing they don't really have to you know I mean cuz Foy is like they're supposed to but like you have to go through all this laware to actually force them to obey the law a lot of the time yeah you know so I I think that you know this idea of we're going to get like a you know a good release of this stuff it's like you're looking at all the people that are around Trump right now and how many numerous connections as
(40:17) you just said obviously Elon he's you know we just found out today he's on the call with Trump talking with zalinski like he's very integrated into this group you know absolutely has connections with Epstein Teo absolutely his connection with Epstein Howard lutnick the caner fritzgerald one of 24 primary dealers for the FED uh the guy that custody these tethers uh you know reserves uh he bought uh an estate previously owned by Epstein uh uh via this Guido Goldman bramman Comet trust group uh for $10 for $10 it's a
(40:49) multi-million dollar um estate um you know in Manhattan um you know and then of course you know the guy that just got out of jail uh you know Steve Bannon you know he was working with Epstein uh so he's like a Goldman intelligence guy uh and he was working with Epstein on a documentary I guess they filmed like 10 hours 12 hours like I think it's I believe to be between 18 and 20 hours the amount of uh you know Epstein footage that Steve Bannon has and he has yet to release um and Bannon was pretty open that he sort of wanted to uh that
(41:23) he thought Epstein was part of some connected to some sort of intelligence service and that he wanted to sort of do that himself essentially um so um you know again it's kind of complicated it's a again it's a truly bipartisan Scandal so you know one particular party if they think they can get an advantage by releasing stuff that implicates the other guys but not themselves uh yeah I think it's possible they will do that but I don't think that necessarily serves uh the American public because as I've strived to point out in my own work
(41:55) on the case uh there's a a very deliberate effort to weaponize and the case and keep it uh solely focused on a very small range of what epin actually did during his relatively lengthy career that involved ties to organized crime and intelligence um there's been no interest in going after his most obvious benefactor Leslie Wexner despite the fact that Wexner uh you know was a never Trumper in all of this stuff um you know no interest in going after him at all or any of the people who arguably were the most involved d uh you know no interest
(42:29) in getting the immunity removed for Epstein secretaries like Leslie gra or someone like Sarah Kellen again I don't really I think the interest is you know weaponizing it potentially for partisan stuff or just not releasing anything at all so I'll leave it there yeah I think getting back maybe to to some of the banon stuff you know we're looking at this you know blob whatever Mafia intelligence merger which obviously you know Whitney literally wrote the book on and you know sort of blurring the lines of like what is
(42:59) intelligence what is Mafia what even is governance you know how how are these things all kind of meeting together and I think looking at the Bannon story uh is specifically as it relates to digital currency is really interesting because I think it kind of nails all of this uh you know these axioms really well um Bannon was Brock Pierce's right-hand man uh they were working on digitizing uh Commodities and creating digital economies uh in the early 2000s um working in the Video Game World Goldman understood you know World of
(43:33) Warcraft gold was was a digital commodity uh you know before anyone else did and you know Goldman comes in and puts a ton of money into Brock Pierce's company and you know he he he's like a kid basically puts all this money into Brock Pierce's company Bandon ends up replacing him as the you know the CEO of the company um and they're working on you know literally it's stated Pierce says this that they were working with the economists um to to basically simulate and stimulate things in a digital world to try things uh in an
(44:05) economy that they wouldn't be able to do in the real world with you know with much lesser consequences so we have literally Goldman Epstein connected uh you know people intelligence connected people working with this guy Brock Pierce um to create a digital economy uh and try these these new economic policies and new things in video games and they were incredibly successful at it they made they made a ton of money um and you know Brock I think is is a very interesting case of you know maybe how modern intelligence you know would work
(44:38) they find a very compromised person he was a part of the digital Entertainment Network with Mark Collins Rector um who is a known pedophile um who you know recruited Shad shackley his business partner who you know rock was kind of the third person when he was a minor uh and uh Mark was certainly not a minor at the time um and they created the digital Entertainment Network and they had this Chad shackley uh Mark Collins recor you know Palace sort of um estate um in uh in Southern California and they were running uh basically you could argue um
(45:14) you know a blackmail ring that that was uh you know based on um you know having young boys um uh and and meeting them directly with people that were in uh venture capital and people that were in politics um like the the husband of um Ariana Huffington of The Huffington Post I think it's Ariana sorry if I'm wrong but um the husband uh who was a representative there who was you know involved later had to kind of come out and be like Oh I'm bye and hey you know it's fine um but there there were absolutely inappropriate things going on
(45:45) there just in the same way that these Diddy parties you know that everyone's very excited about it's kind of the same play um have these compromising things happen in an area that's their area where they can film everything and then they can hold all these these people accountable Brock Pierce was a part of that um very much so um the digital Entertainment Network also has all of these connections to Disney to Microsoft um to Enron um there's a lot of spooky things there Brock Pierce um you know ends up working with clearstone
(46:13) out of the ideal Labs group ideal Labs is the first investor uh Institutional Investor in PayPal um and they're heavily connected to um near uh which is one of the largest human tra uh human traffic of movement um brokers in the world geolocation geolocational brokers in the world but then you see what what does Brock do he's one of the first Bitcoin evangelist he creates tether with Craig sers um who I generally like I think Craig's cool um even though you know I obviously I'm very skeptical of tether but he's kind of The Tech Guy I
(46:46) think the way that you know it it's described as Brandon Bloomer from block one um which was obviously you know heavily backed by Lewis bacon who also was a huge investor in idea labs and and PayPal and kind of the Soros acolyte um and Peter teal obviously in Block one and Bloomer you know described Pierce as being this orchestrator um so he's working with Bannon Bannon his right-hand man and he's this orchestrator who can create three or four businesses that really operate as one business um that that was sort of
(47:14) the quote that he said so we're seeing like you know that there is absolutely uh what you would consider modern intelligence this apparatus that you know intelligence in the 40s and 50s 60s and maybe' 70s um you know was really academic based you know there was a little bit more office stuff a little bit more what we think of when we think of uh you know what what intelligence is uh you know pencil pushers and kind of nerds and offices and and Academia and they were really these breeding grounds for intelligence they figured out you
(47:45) know into the 80s um that you know where we needed to go was the private sector um that's where we if we want to compete with the technologists if we're going to kind of unleash the semiconductor and the inter internet on the world um we need to compete with them you know directly um we can't really be doing that with all this government red tape you know a huge part of all these operations is Money Management it's laundering it's moving things around so they can Finance Black Operations um and that's that's that's really what
(48:14) happened here um and so you're looking at the early PayPal group um and you have someone like elevin I mean he literally applied for the NSA and they told him no um and just so you know you're never going to make any money if you come work for the NSA if you have a really good idea you'll never make money here you won't be able to publish anything that you make here um you know you're beholden to the government uh by being an official member of the NSA um why don't you go drive out to California and go find Peter teal and
(48:47) then uh you know you build all the crypto for um for PayPal and kind of start this dig you know they were really kind of the first group to digitize money um in their um you know their big blowout they did this thing called beaming at bucks where they did the first ever transfer between infrared ports of a Palm Pilot of millions of dollars um they were kind of the first people to do it and he created all this anti fraud stuff all these things as he was building it you know he says in this 2013 interview with Charlie Rose that
(49:16) the uh the relationships he built with the three and four-letter agencies while building PayPal were the most productive ones that he you know ever had in his whole career obviously paler come comes out of PayPal it's the anti fraud algorithm known as igore it comes out of p uh out of the PayPal movement um and you're seeing all of these you know you have to look at the you know we call it the chain but you look at all these people that were there at the beginning uh of this movement um and unfortunately it just stinks of intelligence now you
(49:47) could argue which I think is a definitely a prudent argument well of course they're going to try to come in and Co-op this of course um that's what they do that's what the government does that they're going to come in if there is this beautiful movement they're going to come in and and try to co-opt it and that's absolutely possible it's also absolutely possible that this came out of intelligence and kind of this this new splintering group um of you know inq tels kind of starting in in the '90s and and going direct the CIA going
(50:15) directly into Venture Capital um you know it's it's kind of hard to tell where the lines are where they aren't and again I as I'm sure you would argue it doesn't matter who made Bitcoin it literally doesn't it's the the protocol is the protocol and the math is the math but where it's going and what it can enable and Empower is extremely important and when you see these people that are very obviously uh have the markings of intelligence agents um you know being all over the primordial goop of of the digital you
(50:46) know Revolution obviously we knew the digital money was coming in some form it was inevitable um I don't think we thought it would be like Bitcoin but like here we are um you have to sort of zoom out and look at at all these things and and and look at this this whole group that's why we did this investigation um you know I pretty much researched myself out of a job uh what was supposed to start as just a simple tether uh let's look into tether turned into you know in 80,000 word uh investigation of like the early Bitcoin
(51:16) space and now the stable coin issuers and the regulators and where we're going and there's so much disgusting stuff all over this I mean the the the the Gillan brand connections with you know both of her parents being involved in a Braman Le sex cult um extremely disturbing and now she's writing the legislator uh the legislation excuse me um that regulates stable coins it heavily uses the teral Luna FTX implosion which you could argue and I do um that these were controlled demolitions done to simulate uh you know a dialectic
(51:51) basically if we need to ban algorithmic stable coins they all say that everywhere David Marcus teal Reserve guys uh the legislators you know like Gillan Brandon lumus they they specifically say we need to preserve the Dual banking system we can't have Bitcoin backed money we need to do treasuries they're really building this this you know you look at this whole machine and they're building this um you know consent towards us all being super stoked about uh you know this uh private stable coins uh and Bitcoin being held
(52:23) by the US government um you know that this this is sort of where we are and so if you look at it as sort of an intelligence play you know these are currency speculators that's what Epstein was that's what teal was um what would they do how would they fix our debt and move into this new system they would probably do exactly what they did well one thing I want to bring up about um you know people like gillibrand and and lamus is that they frame a lot and and especially llamas you know frames a lot of her um crypto advocacy
(52:52) as necessary to ensure dollar hegemony right and so as you know as I understand in a lot of you know rhetoric I've heard in the Bitcoin space for years is that Fiat is terrible it's broken money we need to move on from Fiat and so hearing things like that from lumus hearing um Trump at the Bitcoin conference say actually the Bitcoin and the dollar are not competing Bitcoin is going to strengthen the do the dollar and all of this stuff um you know I think it does is a Harbinger should be a Harbinger for concern uh for people that don't want a
(53:23) debt-based monetary um future and unfortunately you know I mean it's essentially been admitted um that you know the next president who we know now will be Trump um is going to face some sort of US Government debt crisis and of course that debt crisis is the consequent of wildly irresponsible fiscal policy right um and so what's what I am concerned about is that there will to be no accountability for that there is a plan to use things that were meant or at least pitched as destroying Fiat and the debt-based monetary system
(53:58) will be used instead to usher in a new ver the the a newer version of it that as Mark pointed out earlier um it will likely be deflationary but only because they've stolen all of the assets and and really most things of value so at that point they do want a deflationary system because they have hoarded all of the wealth and they don't want their wealth to inflate away now that they um hold almost all of the cards right and so you know what concerns me there then is like you know the the stable coin play you
(54:28) know as we said it for you know a long time stable coins have the potential to be just as programmable in surveil as a cbdc uh could be and the fed and uh the National Security Community meaning you know the CIA among other agencies um have been very open that that stable coins will ensure dollar Hemy and you have you know stable coins like teller for example saying that we're a partner of US dollar hegemony and you know Trump uh with the you know um his family's you know stable coin project having recently
(55:00) come out it's about having globalizing think doar much adoption uh well maybe not that necessarily but it shows that the intent is to globalize the dollar and essentially use dollar stable coins not that aren't necessarily directly issued by the US government but will be regulated by it uh to become you know essentially a DEA facto world currency you know that's essentially the push and uh you know it's essentially been happen happening relatively quietly um for some time in economies that are dramatically uh unstable and have been made unstable
(55:35) by entities like the IMF uh for example which you know the US military refers to the IMF as a financial weapon of military power of the the United States government right and so you know and then Argentina of course A lot of people are using tether because their uh local currency is uh no good and that's happening in other places around the world that have also been subjected you know to essentially Financial Warfare by these same predatory uh you know again debt slavery modelbased um institutions and so will this actually improve uh the
(56:12) situation will it prevent future irresponsible fiscal policy if this is what ultimately ends up happening um it it it's it's uh it will come down to people resisting that and saying no that's not okay um if really it is true that people in the Bitcoin space are opposed to debt slavery and debt-based monetary um a debt-based monetary Paradigm which is what I have heard for a long time and I absolutely agree with that um and I am also concerned about the uh introduction now of uh climate Finance as a way to use uh carbon Market schemes or other
(56:54) forms of carbon pricing or uh some of these efforts to securitize the natural world like one that was recently we recently wrote about about the Amazon rainforest for example being securitized by the guy that invented ETFs um and used to be you know head of black rocks Global Investments or something like that um you know that these are going to be used as as different places to shovel debt because if you have a huge debt crisis you're looking for things to you know shovel the debt into to make your debt problem go away and so you know as
(57:26) we've talked about you know I think starting you know maybe 3 years ago Marty you know on your show you know I've I've I've been on talking about um this effort to a while right at least five yeah an effort to securitize uh you know the natural world and create this new asset class um you know that they these groups that back this call Nature's economy uh because they can you know essentially quadruple or Keen Tuple uh the amount of assets in the current economy and basically keep the existing Casino uh Casino model That Wall Street
(57:59) and these these criminal banks have you know go on forever they need that new asset class to keep their models going you know that make that generate them a lot of money and the fact that you know there's all these efforts from people like lamus and gillibrand and others that want to support the Dual banking system that rewards irresponsible government fiscal policy and criminal uh acts of the private Banks um you know I'm concerned about that and the fact that that you know in in Trump's Administration in particular you have
(58:29) someone like Howard lutnick closely tied to tether but also very uh connected to ESG the sustainable development goals caner Fitzgerald has an entire fund dedicated to implementing the UN sustainable development goals right which includes By the Way digital ID is part of that um and programmable surveill money linking a digital ID to some sort of cbdc or Ubi biometric wallet and all of this stuff this is in the SGS um and um he's uh you know on the board of of this company that we've talked about most of this year actually
(59:05) called a satle logic that is involved in all several efforts to securitize Nature um and and turn basically uh things like the Amazon rainforest into you know tradable Financial products uh that don't actually conserve anything but are framed as that um and then you know this effort to basically install a predatory Global carbon Market um over Latin America that at the same time it ends local and National sovereignty or would de facto end it and and Lead toward toward a more Regional government and Regional government block and try and
(59:37) build out like a smart power grid and 5G stuff throughout the continent under the guise of conserving it and ending climate change um you know ultimately you know as I've argued in that and and Mark and I have argued in some of our other pieces the goal is really just to use that stuff to shovel debt someplace and even uh you know RF K Junior's former VP pick uh Nicole Shanahan um we you know she's uh LED projects research projects about how to shovel you how to facilitate quantitative easing uh by quantitatively easing uh into you know
(1:00:13) Carbon sequestration projects and uh tokenized carbon credits and carbon coins and all of this stuff um so this is something that is definitely um uh being talked about by figures that are around the current Administration and if there is a debt crisis uh even though you know Trump uh pulled people out of the Paris uh Accords and all of that stuff um you know I mean Elon Musk uh quit all the advisory panels he in can councils he was on in the first Trump administration because Trump uh ended the US's um commitment to the Paris
(1:00:48) agreements right uh but this time he's obviously come back in a big way and as recently as February was pushing for carbon taxes and some other form of carbon pricing and has been a big advocate for that for really several years um and he's really not the only one um uh there's a lot of Republicans actually that were pushing for carbon taxes when Trump was in office last time he didn't listen to them but if it's considered uh or framed as necessary uh because of a debt crisis or something like that you know the tune may change
(1:01:18) and you know uh with someone like lck who's so I mean he's not Larry Fink but I mean he's certainly um not like an anti ESG guy and not an anti-climate Finance guy and I mean if you look into carbon markets or any of this other stuff I mean they're the reason they've been failing is because they're exposed time and time again as scams so now the new thing is to frame them as high integrity carbon markets we need high integrity carbon markets but you're never going to get a freaking high integrity carbon Market when it's
(1:01:47) criminal Bankers making them up because criminal Bankers do one thing and that's steel you know and so I mean that's what the carbon Market they will make will do it's essentially inevitable um what was the what was what think saying he was like I'm sick of everyone talking about how this is the most important election you know we work with both parties like who gives a you know I mean he didn't say gives a but well that is unfortunate you have kamala's economic team and Biden's economic team essentially being run by Black Rock
(1:02:18) Executives um and then you know when Trump was in office last time Larry Frink had a basically you know Black Rock designed us fiscal uh the US fiscal response to co that they began implementing before a pandemic was even declared and it it resulted in one of the biggest you know transfers wealth transfers in American history and printed more money than at any other time in US history and you know that was Black Rock and they're not going away and the fact that thinkink is is like we work with both administrations I mean
(1:02:47) they worked with Obama during 08 they worked with Trump and they worked with Biden and would have worked with Kamala um yeah he's not he's not he's reti HED the term ESG um and uses things like sustainable investing and climate finance and other terms now but he openly says that it's it was never about conservation or saving the planet it's about profits um and if you look at Larry fl's track record like what I just meent mentioned with Co fiscal policy um you know their track record is basically stealing wealth from the public and then
(1:03:19) using control they take over corporations or Pension funds or you know other things like that to try and force beh behavioral changes among uh corporations in the American public and what sort of Behavioral changes does Larry want I think we all know by now well also all you have to do is look at is look at the the lockdowns I mean and and look at how going direct was written before there was a talk of a of a virus um and you have to look at the lockdowns as it was fiscal policy to crush demand to be able to print a buch of money give
(1:03:57) it to Wall Street and let them buy everything up if you actually think about the implications of that think about the implications of that they committed the greatest violation of human civil liberties uh prob maybe arguably in in in in human history that that that we or certainly modern era right they locked everybody in our homes completely murdered the the um the middle class printed more money than anything and after they had spent all of this time with building out the euro dollar market dollariz the entire world
(1:04:29) and then they inflated it uh you know away and it's going to continue to inflate away and we're not we're going to see the effects of this um you know for our entire lives but this was a plan this was done um and I know that's controversial and maybe get you demonetized I'm sorry Marty but I I think it really was if you look at the you look at the the the the plans I mean they they planned this before the virus happened uh and then they locked everybody down and what else happened you know it's very obvious to look at
(1:04:56) 9/11 and see oh wow there was this huge expansion of the intelligence State um because of Regulation that happened from this event the intelligent State expanded in a very disturbing way uh extremely so um under Trump um and and and in during the lockdowns and who was able to kind of run uh in this crisis uh you know uh run fiscal policy who was able to run the data for these for these uh the implementation of operation warp speed the deregulation of um you know pharmaceutical products you know who who made billions and billions of dollars uh
(1:05:30) and who got crushed and who got you know in some cases literally killed um it it's an absolute travesty and and this was done for money and it was done uh I would say arguably as sort of a control demolition to force us all into the new Financial system um I know that's controversial and it's a it's a kind of a step to make to be like wow this was this really all a plan uh and I think I think it was um when you look at the treasury market and you look at the repo Market uh I mean this is a decades long um you know expansion of the monetary
(1:06:04) debt system let's dollarize everything you know in the early 80s we were the largest creditor in the world and by ' 87 we were the largest debtor um you know where did all that money go a lot of it went to Latin America this whole Latin America debt crisis there was the Savings and Loan Scandal that was heavily connected um to the CIA and the Bush family and James Baker um there even some connections to some Fitzgerald subsidiaries in there we see this huge expansion of debt we see the plaza Accord um which was sort of coordinated
(1:06:33) Central Banking we saw coordinated Central Banking again in 2020 um you know minuchin was the one that recommended Powell um and they all came in there uh and they worked with central banks around the world and they all came together to say let's all go to zero uh interest rates you know we have to fight pandemic uh and then what happened the US rais rates faster than ever in history uh and completely broke the bond market um and uh the Dollar's stronger than ever uh even though it's inflating like crazy and we printed you know how
(1:07:03) many trillions of dollars and basically handed it to Black Rock um these people are Financial manipulators um they are currency speculators they understand this stuff better than anyone they know how to launder profits they know how to U manufacture consent um from the people uh they started building out social networks they started building out blockchains um you you know issuing Private Bank digital currencies um they basically set everything up in this incredibly perfect way uh and here we are with this huge populist movement
(1:07:35) running in Trump has more of a mandate than ever uh and he really was an essential part uh of allowing this coup uh and this robbery to happen uh unfortunately um and the people around him are still a lot of those same people uh and here they are um and if you really look at what the Imp ations of what we should have learned from Co era for some reason um we're forgiving everybody that we just handed the keys to the castle to uh for the role that they in the expansion of the monetary Supply and the expansion of the security
(1:08:08) State um and here we are uh it's time to hold people accountable I don't know why Trump gave fouchy a metal I don't know why he gave them any power at all um I don't know why they deregulated pharmaceutical you know um uh red tape to to to speed things along I don't know why they poer run all uh you know the data for for this distribution but now we're here um we have to learn from the immediate history um and we can't get sidetracked by these quick social media pivots and uh and this this feeling that we've won uh when actually we were just
(1:08:42) robbed our our entire you like generational wealth was you know maybe not us cuz we hold some Bitcoin right but anybody that didn't hold Bitcoin before then and has been holding dollars I mean they they really were robbed our parents were robbed our grandparents or uncles or whatever um it's it's it's an incredibly nasty thing that happened uh and it wasn't an accident uh in in any way shape or form well it was a wealth transfer that went beyond the wealth transfer that was the 2008 economic crisis um and you know what concerns me
(1:09:11) is that one of the top people uh being floated for a treasury secretary position under the new Trump Administration is this uh James Paulson guy uh who was one of the most successful 2008 criminals and made more money than anyone else but really should have been Pro uted for the way he did that because the bank he worked with Goldman Sachs actually ended up sort of getting prosecuted for it no one was really prosecuted in o08 but there were civil cases very few and this uh what was the it was like called Abacus and
(1:09:40) there was another one that Paulson and and Goldman Sachs worked on together uh and that was one of the few that was so egregious it actually resulted um in a civil lawsuit even though yes no Bankers went to jail no banks were really punished there were some fines um handed out but there was really no accountability and when you have that scale of wealth transfer and theft happen with no accountability uh you can be sure that the same people responsible for that were like we can continue to fleece the public and steal more if we
(1:10:10) do it the right way you know and so the fact that you know he's even he's being considered um you know for that position I find very concerning and as I understand it the other pick is Scott bessent who is a former money manager uh for George Soros which um you know doesn't necessarily um appeal to me either or at least doesn't suggest that it will be fundamentally um you know different than uh maybe proceeding treasury secretary policy at the end of the day but again we will see hopefully it will be someone not that
(1:10:45) terrible um and there are some people in his camp that are big uh sound money people and backing the dollar with something of substance maybe something will come of that but what has been most telegraphed is has generally been this this Bitcoin dollar stable coin play um that that we discussed earlier um but given that those people are in the Trump Camp if people want to see something different they should push to have those people um elevated over people like Paulson um who you know used credit default swap uh to make a
(1:11:19) bazillion dollars at the expense of lots of other people um yeah specifically it was what it was state pension plans basically he worked with Goldman and created these vehicles um that had all of these junk just total junk mortgages and and a bunch of in them and he took a negative short position on them and then he had Goldman sell them to like Arizona State pensions and all as a good investment going to fail and they Shield it as this good thing meanwhile he has this huge short position on it and uh he's consider it's considered one of the
(1:11:51) greatest trades ever because he made you know billions of dollars in a day uh when when it went under um but it's robbery that that is that is robbery uh from regular lower and middle class Americans to make the greatest trade ever and I don't necessarily see that as appealing when you have over at you know arguably definitely before the year 2000 but since then so many orchestrated wealth transfers and robbery of people's wealth time and again and no accountability and this is the person that you'd like to put in charge of the
(1:12:22) treasury and that's been the most floated The Only Name That Trump said on the campaign TRS a possible treasury secretary was the Paulson guy and he's still at the top of the at the list if you look at Poly market today it looks like bent is leading 55% probability well better than Paulson but we'll see you know the poly Market play is so interesting I think the third candidate on there is Jay Clayton right the former uh cftc SEC guy uh he's also an adviser to fire blocks which is uh you know at one point was going to do um
(1:12:54) the stable coin issuance for face book's Libra they're heavily connected to the IDF um and Israeli intelligence Israeli intelligence veterans made the company yeah and they use NPC which is uh insecure compared to multi but that's a that's a whole another technical Rabbit Hole you could fall down Rob Hamilton is fuming right now um the uh I mean a couple things I mean going back to like synthia lamus and Gilder brand I don't know Gilder brand well I do know Cynthia um and her team very well well and even though she
(1:13:27) may publicly posture like Bitcoin uh strengthening the dollar and all that I think it is important to take into consideration just like the the rhetoric around Bitcoin being adopted as a reserve asset and thinking of like the Deb situ the government does have a needle to thread if they are going to allow Bitcoin to proliferate facilitate growth within the United States of individ ual bitcoiners Bitcoin businesses because if they send the signal to the market like oh we're dumping the dollar we're going all in on
(1:14:03) bitcoin like they have this massive $ 36 trillion doll debt problem that is systemically important to uh somewhat stable Financial system globally and so I think they have to be very strategic about how they position so I wouldn't be surprised if the um the head nod to the dollar is going to be around for a while is simply just a a late hedge against potentially rugging the treasury markets like in in a moment's notice um and then yeah going back drunk Miller's shortening the bond market there's there's a I think I saw you talking
(1:14:39) about that short uh Paul tutor Jones is recommending that people don't own bonds and so the government is in this Federal government's in this position where it's like we have this $ 36 trillion do gorilla in the room and we need to figure out how to safely um walk it into its cage and well I'm sure Howard lutnick is trying to figure out how to do that since he's one of the biggest traders of US Government debt at one point you know like 70% of all us treasuries were like settled through canor and canor subsidiaries
(1:15:11) which is which is totally insane yeah and like going back to like the the co-option of Bitcoin that's what I mean that's another part of the game theory has been talked about for a while it's and something I've been saying written about it's that uh you don't change Bitcoin Bitcoin changes you and that's The Optimist eternal optimist maybe some will say it is naivity um or gullibleness but it I do would not be surprised if people within the government have seen Bitcoin for what it is and like oh th this is the thing
(1:15:44) we need to basically act to make sure that we are well positioned to not get left behind um and are trying to figure out a way to basically I mean using Jerome Pal's words Jen 's words create a soft Landing transition um in which Bitcoin is allowed to flourish with that being said like yeah jilda Bram particularly I don't like her position on privacy kyc ml well she's Hillary Clinton's successor in New York she was picked by Clinton and she considers Hillary her Mentor yeah all you really need to know and so that's like I think again going
(1:16:23) back to anchoring to accountability um and vigilance that's I'm cautiously optimistic like that's the other thing like going back to Trump's first term in 2016 like I'm sure you guys have heard like um The Narrative that he was completely handcuffed he got into office and didn't know how to operate within the bureaucracy of the federal government and sort of had the the unip party blob forced on him and I will say this time around does seem like he's learning the lesson like he the the MSNBC I don't know if you guys were
(1:16:56) watching it the night of the election I clicked for a little I don't think I've ever watched MC I clicked over for the first time in year I just Marty loves MSM I just wanted to see what these people are saying and one of the things that was actually signal to me I picked up on was that Trump's campaign has not been communicating with the White House transition team which is you're supposed to do for months leading up to the election to ensure that there's a a um a sort of a efficient uh exchange power when uh when
(1:17:31) when the new Administration comes in and then you see I mean the few appointments that we have seen um WS yesterday being Chief of Staff I looked her up her background she seems pretty pretty confident she's the daughter of Pat Summerall in American I know I think that's so funny I love but she helped elect uh Rick Scott uh to be governor of Florida uh who uh was previous VI l a pharmaceutical executive that committed fraud um and in Florida I believe his nickname uh is Skeletor uh he's now a senator um and uh she was also a big-
(1:18:06) Time big Pharma lobbyist MH including for uh her uh firm uh represents Gabby the vaccine Alliance that's what makes all this thing this Coalition interesting because you do have this sort of uh embedded gridlock between the people some of the people behind Trump like it seems like like I'm sure you saw the big farmer EXs are all on a conference call preparing for the incoming Administration like yeah but at the same time Marty it's like Tesla is going back to vigilance and accountability again not saying things are going to change 100% 100%
(1:18:42) like these are the things I'm looking at like for sure there is you know I think you're the man it's just I think Elon I mean he was building uh mRNA tech technology for the Cure ofac in Tesla factories he saying the science is unequivocal uh you know huge proponent for vaccines and and Co Insanity at the very beginning obviously then he pivoted as all these people did when it was no when it was like no longer politically dangerous and it no longer really mattered uh they all pivoted um VC uh you know also heavily involved in mRNA
(1:19:15) stuff um uh you know this this there's so much pharmaceutical money and Lobby in that in that little Avengers group of people that that that people are so stoked about um I know you want to say something on that right well I have a lot to say about about Pharma in general so really since before covid-19 uh big Pharma had a major issue with what are known as patent Cliffs and patent Cliffs are basically were drugs that they had exclusivity on go generic and they can't make as much money off of them anymore and there's also a problem
(1:19:48) that problem is combining with an R&D problem for traditional Pharmaceuticals where drugs that can be marketed under the that exclusivity uh model uh just aren't really don't really they can't really find anything new that's profitable and and works and can pass existing regulations to make it to market right so what most big Pharma companies have done and it really grew substantially during uh the covid era was that they teamed up with technology firms or smaller biotech firms so out of that for example you saw gxo Smith Klein
(1:20:20) team up with Google and made galvani bio Electronics on the board was Sala who was later put in charge of operation warp speed for example and there's a lot of these uh teamops where really you sort of have Tech uh merging with Pharma to user in sort of this new era of what are being referred to as Precision medicines and various things like that um that was allegedly the motive for the Biden Administration to create the health DARPA which they called arpa H it was considered under Trump as well but under the name harpa um but nevertheless
(1:20:52) it exists and um what concerns me about that is okay so in Trump's first term he deregulated biotech extensively mainly in in the in terms of GMO crops to the point that um anti-gmo organizations and small farmers ass sued the Trump Administration over the proliferation of GMO crops as a consequence of of that policy um so there is a precedent for him sort of unchaining GMO development and it's very possible that could happen in terms of medicine since operation warp speed arguably was that Elon Musk as Mark mentioned invested in M techn
(1:21:29) technology but so is JD Vance so is Vic and so are a lot of other people that extensively uh backed Trump for example paler co-founder Joe Lonsdale his VC fir 8bc is involved with this company called resilience that has a lot of ties to the CIA including the head of inq tell on its board um and they started producing all of the MRNA uh for the uh covid shot or at least mad's Co shot at some point and are you know have built up this huge Enterprise with the goal of creating a lot of Biotech um medicines and all of
(1:22:03) that and it's very likely because this is a huge thing that it's not just Vance and these guys the big Silicon Valley guys the biggest ones are all hugely invested in biotech it doesn't matter if they backed Camala or they backed Trump um it's it's essentially across the board and there's a huge push for this um and it's tied up too with you know a lot of push from Silicon Valley and their products itself for like health wearables or wearables that can be applied to healthc care which have troubling surveillance capabilities you
(1:22:34) know you had like youve all you've all know a Harari during covid say once they get it in your body they can read your brain and you'll be sent to the goolag for not clapping for the leader and whatever you know please clap yeah yeah that's longale oh sorry the early signal like Joel Salton being like brought into I think that is very positive it's like and and mass get away from GMO well let's hope so but again remember it Trump's first term in generally Republicans in general tend to say we're going to get rid of the red
(1:23:07) tape for innovation in the industry but the problem with GMO crops for example is that they're a threat to health they're an environmental threat and they threaten small farmers that don't want to produce GMO crops because they can cross pollinate and contaminate and GMO crops have been used time and again to force Farmers into debt slav Y where they were introduced in places in the global South like India led to a rash of suicides of Indian Farmers uh who were is this no it's definitely a thing because they were trapped in these debt
(1:23:36) slavery Cycles with Monsanto having to buy seeds because they can't say you can't save GMO seeds right um and then having to buy the chemicals to grow them and all of this stuff um and it's very problematic so you know um it can be problematic in that sense when you deregulate something that threatens People's Health around you and I think that's arguable too with some of these uh un under tested and very controversial biotech uh you know injections for example as we saw with mRNA um you know concerns about shedding
(1:24:06) for example concerns like that is it okay to deregulate um those things not that I'm saying that regulation is always the answer absolutely not um but you know I think it it could be complicated to do those things well well let's what's deregulation is a is a is a misnomer it it's a red herring I mean the idea of what of what deregulation is is it's re-regulation and really the way that it works in practice and as we've seen historically is it's kingming they use deregulation with very specific Clauses and grandfather you know expiry
(1:24:40) uh you know terms exactly and so and so we look at you know well how did what happened with glass deagle again something Trump campaigned on you know bringing back and then deregulated the banking industry even more in 2018 and up the limits from the two big to fail Bank from 50 billion to 250 which had honestly pretty big implications on the regional banking crisis not that you know you'll read that in the teal funded pirate pirate wires but um you know the the the the way that that glass deagle worked it was deregulation it was uh
(1:25:12) City Bank put $100 million into uh you know lobbying people like you know the head of the Senate Banking Committee at the time Alon damato was heavily connected to to Gillan brand and what glass deagle actually did was it King made made uh City and travelers um you know which became City Group to become you know this just unbelievable uh you know blob uh entity um and you know we saw people jumping in and out of the public sector and private sector moving in um but but really it it it it it was guised as getting rid of
(1:25:43) red tape and blah blah blah and this going to be so good this big boom but really it just Consolidated and centralized um and I think we're going to see that you know again when we're looking you know again to bring it back to stable coins cuz that's all I know what to talk about you know the bill here these are the same people um and what is this regulation actually going to do there's Clauses in there that literally say well if you're already above 10 billion and you're here and you know they already have these
(1:26:10) Clauses that uh you know will be good for usdc like lus said yeah she pretty much said that didn't she that as it's written it favors Circle over tether so I mean that's an example of how these bills K King make not that tether we don't obviously have a pretty negative of tther but usdc really isn't much better and there couldn't be deeper TI deep more deeply tied to Black Rock among other yeah unsavory entities right but and then and then the other big part of this thing is that you know the the in in this regulatory uh expression is
(1:26:41) the idea that anybody using dollar denominations are now under the purview uh of the regulatory arm of the United States and that could get really weird really interesting like really quickly right because why are all these groups like lightning Labs like light spark which have multiple connections to PayPal Libra went and visited with lightning labs when they were working on Libra David Marcus then goes and leaves and does light spark they are actively putting dollar instruments into the Bitcoin blockchain that is what they're
(1:27:12) trying to do they're creating all of these ways um to create dollars on lightning and literally yes like tap rooot assets it is in the blockchain specifically it's misnomer to say it's on Lightning they're transacted on Lightning but there are dollar instruments now on all of your nodes what does that mean then does that mean now everybody using Bitcoin somehow is under the regulatory arm of the United States because there's dollar instruments on there there's a lot of complicated things that can happen from
(1:27:40) uh the way that this is the the Bitcoin space is moving um and like sailor this spook uh who has mayo shatak on the board of alarm.com the guy The Insider Trader uh of 911 um who it is disgusting uh what what what what he did it's it's disturbing he's on the board of Michael sailor's company anyway Michael sailor total spook he's coming in and saying you know hey don't fight the system don't be a martyr uh let's bring dollars onto Bitcoin and it will be a multi-trillion dollar industry and the Bitcoin will get stronger and you
(1:28:12) know again he was kind of the first guy to come out and really start this hey maybe Bitcoin isn't really against the dollar maybe they're working together um and you know there's so many people now that are rising up into this space they've really manufactured consent for bringing dollars on bitcoin it doesn't make any sense it's incredibly dangerous um it's very stupid scaling is not going to be done through dollar denominated tokens it's stupid there are other ways to do this we can create dollar likee instruments that don't touch treasuries
(1:28:43) that wouldn't be under the purview of this this Gillan brand lumus law um like you know kind of like invol some of the things you guys have been involved with with fet or with Fetti um you know there's there's some things here that can be done uh I'm not sure that ecash is 100% the answer in any way shape or form I think we need to scale Bitcoin figure out how to get it to scale keep lock small we are not closet bcers but figure it out what Covenant solution are we going to do how are we going to get it so billions of people
(1:29:11) can hold utxos I don't want everybody using Aqua wallet I don't want them using tether I don't give a about that I don't want them using liquid um I'm sure there are amazing people working on all those products um but I don't think that the mechanism is where we want to go I don't want to scale through dollars I want to scale through Bitcoin I want to scale through SATs and I think we should be pushing towards that yeah I I hung out with Ryan Gentry from lightning labs for a few hours yesterday greaty he's great he's
(1:29:37) super nice no and I think I mean that's what I worry about like the like I hope like the people working at these companies at like tether lightning Labs on Lightning via tappered assets I think is a genuine attempt to meet Market to demand recognizing that people simply aren't transacting with Bitcoin they're particularly in the emerging world uh they're using stable coins because they don't want to stomach the price volatility of Bitcoin and that product is an attempt to meet the demand of the market and I I it doesn't scare me as
(1:30:15) much as it um scares you because I I think Bitcoin ultimately wins and it goes back to the problem of the Deb um which like Bitcoin is a superior monetary instrument in every regard it's just going to take time for people to realize that and I mean we can go the dollar milkshake Theory seems to be playing out and it's I don't think I don't think it's a consequence of Nefarious intention like pure monetary economics and competition I think it's absolutely from nef I mean the US dollar system wants to spread as far as it can
(1:30:50) because it needs people to use their instruments it needs Vol it needs V uh you know there's a reason why the US again went in the ' 80s from being the largest creditor in the world to the largest debtor that was on purpose they let the euro dollar market build on purpose they created instruments to build these things they created mechanisms to spread the dollar faster you look at you know there's some there's some pretty crazy I agree with I agree with that I think the dollar like the the the market dynamics I'm
(1:31:18) describing are consequence of this attempt to push the Dollar on everybody yeah yeah and and I I say this a lot like I really empathize with people you know I've been spending time in in South America while working on some of this stuff and you you talk to people and they're like oh yeah tether's amazing it's great uh you know we love it that that's true I mean I'm not like denying that that's true but like how much of that is because a lot of Bitcoin scaling opportunities were neutered uh you know how much of that is be that's that's the
(1:31:49) qu like I I would push back I think Bitcoin has scaled tremendously like it is SC faing perfectly if you look at the amount of value settled on an ongoing basis it's continually going up tens of trillions of dollars at this point and again I think it's like uh using Bitcoin as a transactional currency with stable value like people just haven't recognized it as that yet and so they're using stable coins like I don't think it's I I truly believe that stable coins are an attempt to meet market demand of people who don't want a
(1:32:26) stomach volatility I don't like it I don't think people should do it but I think recognizing the reality of the situation is that there is this demand for the ability to send dollars over these networks relatively cheaply very quickly outside um relatively outside in this uh regulatory gray area at least for the time being up to this point um and I I don't worry about it like stable coins get to a a trillion dollar market that themselves I don't think it really um would prevent bitcoin's ultimate success well what I'm worried
(1:33:02) about with stable coins might be a little different than maybe what you or Mark or some other people worried about for example in the case of tether um they're openly willing to seize um people's wallets at the Beast of ofac or the treasury Department if they're put on the US government naughty list I find that very problematic um that if someone for example in AR Ina um or another country um is holding tether and the US government decides I don't know let's pretend they have a government they don't like they do right
(1:33:35) now right but it's someone else um and then they're like oh we're going to sanction whoever you know they can take someone's dollar denominated you know stable coins or whatever um and just seize them without any sort of accountability and then that way uh you know for as I mentioned earlier about how the US military views the IMF as a tool of financial power they view sanctions that way too and if tether and presumably other stable coin issuers but specifically with this uh effort to regulate all dollar stable coins have
(1:34:08) have them all be regulated by the US government there is the potential for the US government to very much abuse that and also use it as a tool for uh wanton Financial surveillance in the same way that you have people like Augustine Carson's at the bis saying we want to have have complete visibility into every you know scent essentially that people spend and it will and now we have the technology enforce that we want Total Control stable coins can lead us to that Paradigm and at the same time um I would argue that one of the most
(1:34:41) damaging things that has happened uh in the past several hundred years is the debt-based monetary Paradigm debt crises have been manufactured by criminals time and again to steal people's wealth all over the world leading to Great suffering uh for people really everywhere um in in ways that I mean I think people forget that I mean pretty much in the case of Latin America um pretty much as soon as Latin American countries became independent they began to be attacked by Banks and started having their F debt their first debt
(1:35:14) crisis again manufactured most of them by the bank of England or by British Banks or the city of London um but that has continued uh for decades and decades the cycle repats and it's happened everywhere and now you know since the Breton wood system in post World War II you've had the IMF you've had the World Bank and these entities you know using debt slavery essentially uh to you know Force countries to do things they otherwise wouldn't do erode sovereignty um and you know steal from people and and abuse entire
(1:35:45) populations that Paradigm should not continue in my opinion and by allowing it to continue and by trying to like yoke Bitcoin for example Le to that Paradigm I think um really would be a loss of an opportunity to use Bitcoin to neuter what is u a one of the greatest enablers of financial criminality of for centuries 100 um and I think it's going to be difficult to truly liberate people from the criminal system uh that runs our government and you know most of our world uh frankly um if we continue to allow that debt-based Paradigm to
(1:36:26) continue and have a particular government that uh I mean I've noted in my book for example has been controlled by criminal elements for a very long time and maybe people think the criminal elements will be less now but we can't quite be sure can we do we really want um the one government to have so much power over people's money including in countries that are not the United States I completely agree and that's I mean it's I mean we've Matt and I on rabbit over recap for the last six years been warning like people again it's like
(1:36:59) recognizing that there is this use case that's being filled by the stable coins but we've been warning for six years like these are centrally controlled and get rugged yeah at any moment and that's like I don't think Bitcoin ever gets yoked this St where there's definitely some interplay between the two but I don't think the um stable coin markets have any control over Bitcoin the protocol specifically um they definitely don't absolutely not I wasn't saying that no no I'm not saying that you are but I'm saying like there's people need to get
(1:37:30) rugged people are going to get rugged the ofac list number is going to go up people going to be like all right but but bitcoiners might get rugged when if the the price of Bitcoin gets so high and which is you know a good thing generally but these people that hold small amounts and in shitty Consolidated utxos and they can't spend them uh or it's so prohibitively expensive and so how can they get them out they can use you know P swaps Atomic swaps with you know groups where they they move into dollars and other instruments perhaps it
(1:38:00) forces people if Bitcoin you know kind of doesn't necessarily figure out maybe a shared utxo model or or you know lightning is really cool for interoperable uh settlement between like institutions but it's not really that great um you know for individuals for daily payments and stuff so like where does that wealth go where where does it you know what what what are you forced to use and we leave Bitcoin sort of where it is um with its sort of uh you know perhaps inability to Service uh you know the majority of the world they're
(1:38:33) going to have to use dollar instruments um because that's the only other thing that we've built out that has a network that's ready uh to be able to scale to to that level so I think that we probably will see uh you know dollar instruments take more of a share out of Bitcoin unfortunately in terms of transactional peer-to-peer volume that was kind of the point here I don't I I think think Bitcoin is awesome I'm less interested in it if it's just a reserve asset uh and less so a peer-to-peer currency I don't think that uh stable
(1:39:01) coins stop Bitcoin from being able to be transacted obviously not but price Dynamics might be able to limit that uh there's an amazing book that came out um there there was a a paperback edition in 2008 called who controls the Internet by Goldsmith and woo it came out on oxer press and um it talks about in the updated version about how the internet movement it was this like Liberation movement uh right and in the 90s it just focused on all you know John Perry Barlo and all of these sort of Declarations of being like the internet will dissolve
(1:39:31) the nation state and they'll have no ability to control it uh it's going to be so based and awesome and it's just totally great and let's go and then they spent the next decade the 2000s like begging regulators and governments to like uphold free speech and and markets and it became like actually no the government uh or the internet doesn't dissolve borders like that um it it really doesn't um and the way that uh you know countries and Sovereign nations are able to sort of you know fight uh and restrict data coming in and out of
(1:40:01) the country of course there's technology like the China uh you know firewall or whatever but there's but it's actually law fair and it's Financial sanctions and so like Yahoo wants to you know host na Nazi memorabilia on an auction site this is a real story that happened in in in the late 90s um and France has a law that says you know you can't sell Nazi memorabilia you would think oh well hey you know Yahoo is a US company who cares you know they can just say you but they can't because they have uh you know
(1:40:30) Financial uh you know instruments that exist in France that can get pressure put on them and then they ended up actually pivoting away and not listing these things even in the US markets um so there there the internet and Technology even though it's this hyper connective tissue it doesn't just like dissolve the nation state immediately uh and you look at some of the issues again I I really recommend people check out this book that talk a lot about um you know the US control over the Internet uh and the Ian system which was sort of
(1:41:00) done uh you know we we apparently kind of gave up you know sort of root access to Ian you know under Obama in 2016 it kind we kind of really didn't it's kind of a little bit Loosey Goosey and the US actually has still a huge amount of control over the Internet we've seen people get their uh websites ripped out of DNS for things like gab right um you know we've seen that happen the idea that Bitcoin be just because it can't be diluted or seized uh which I agree with mathematically doesn't mean that the instruments that propagate things um
(1:41:34) can't be restricted um doesn't mean that the Privacy uh elements are even going to be possible with Bitcoin in fact you know pretty much nothing you do on the Internet is is private at all it's incredibly hard to find any sort of privacy on the internet um that's not going away anytime soon so I think when you see like intelligence agencies and law enforce for ment you know being on boarded onto um you know these blockchains and and of these private issuers um that's not going to stop happening these bills these regulations as the US moves
(1:42:05) towards digital currency it's only going to get worse um and we have to kind of like really take a step back and be like how actually ready are we for this War uh that's going to happen because we're sovn individuals it's cool we actually probably will make it like us because we have a good amount of Bitcoin we have capability to spend no matter where the market goes the the the me pool um you know we'll be okay but a lot of the world probably won't um and and so like how do do do we want to just get rich and just kind of off and disappear
(1:42:37) maybe sometimes yeah um but that's not really what I got into Bitcoin for and that's not what I want to fight for so in the same way I think that we have to be very uh you know not rest on our Laurels the the fight is not over decentralization doesn't mean Unstoppable and there's no other uh you know granular points like it is decentralized control but where does it push control to to isps to energy markets to chip manufacturers like there are centralization forces within the distribution of Bitcoin um you know and
(1:43:08) I think Whitney had an amazing tweet a few months ago that everybody lost their over uh that was like Hey this sucks I don't want this to happen to bitcoin and I think it was actually demonstrated uh an incredible understanding of Bitcoin um that it does go to these granular points and um we just need to like what do we want here do we want to just get rich let the US government get rich let Michael sailor become a pharaoh Larry fin build a giant pyramid somewhere and you know and Bal is corpse and Peter teal lives to be 10,000 years old cuz
(1:43:38) he's like drinking blood or whatever like do we want that like I don't give a about any of those things I think they're all Financial criminals um I would rather someone that isn't born yet uh be able to in 150 years uh be able to spend a utxo um that's not just because their grandfather held Bitcoin right I want that to be able to happen um and I think Roger ver was wrong in a lot of ways obviously technology-wise and scaling wise but I think that there is a truth to let's make this a peer-to-peer thing how do we enable that and I know there's
(1:44:09) a lot of smart people doing it but I don't think the answer is stable coins um I don't think because I think it's a centralization force um yeah no and I think shout out to everybody working on ecash shout out to everybody working on Lightning uh Noster and that's so I think I think we got to stay vigilant keep everybody accountable I think Bitcoin is scaling giv the um giving what it has at its fingertips right now people are obviously focused on covenants it's great to see Arc launch I did the uh the test run of seconds Arc implementation
(1:44:45) that seems very promising somebody just came out with 160 bit apparently maybe the Collision uh covenants without without a sof fork and so that's like we're discovering how Bitcoin works as time goes on too and I I don't know again maybe I'm Turtle Optimist gullible naive but so am I I don't I don't I don't think I I think optimism is great and we need optimism otherwise we wouldn't be doing any of this we also no no that's why I love YouTu it's cuz like you also have to be aware of how you can be attacked and
(1:45:16) have the ad yeah we get accused a lot uh of being Doom pillars uh and offering no Solutions and all that but really I mean um you know I feel like at least in my case and I I believe in marks as well but I don't want to speak for him you know My Views have been consistent ever since I started going on bitcoin podcasts about um you know Wall Street and the state and I just haven't really uh changed that but maybe some people have you know different opinions now that there's been an about face from Wall Street and also the
(1:45:48) government um as it relates um to bitcoin and I think there is a reason that prominent stable coins like tether have tried to cultivate ties um in a favorable perception among bitcoiners and um I would really hope that people would not be fooled by that and would remember for example the outsized role of tether in FTX for example uh which seems to have been rather drastically memory hold or the fact that they've openly partnered uh with the FBI which you know runs war on domestic Terror stuff and does all sort
(1:46:22) is essentially a coverup agency uh for the mob basically as opposed to actually being a meaningful law enforcement agency and creates their own Terror plots that they then foil so they can justify larger bullets uh budgets did you see the one from this week oh the the naal guy yes oh no I didn't oh Monday right before the election they're like oh we caught a domestic white supremacist terrorist who's going to bomb the uh the grid system his name Joe rers luckily he was co-c conspiring with five FBI agents it's like what the
(1:46:57) is going on oh no well they they do that to justify you know expanding their budget and expanding their powers look you need us we stopped terrorism except we like told them to do it and we gave them the gun and we gave them the bomb and we told him it was a good idea and we were his only friends we weren't really his friends we were feds I mean that so many examples of that um so yeah tther thought it was cool to team up with them and the Secret Service and the Secret Service is part of the world economic Forum uh pack that's trying to
(1:47:27) End online anonymity and online privacy um so uh that's fun right um and you know again I think you know the this this effort to sort of use stable coins to manage US Government debt the problem I have and I under I I can sympathize a little bit with the idea we don't want the dollar collapse because that causes economic inst I mean yes that's obvious but the problem is when you reward criminal activity from the private Banks and the Central Bank uh that has been going on well really the fed's entire history and really arguably for the
(1:48:03) private Banks as well um they will continue that criminality MH and if we allow them to do that they will do it in the next iteration of whatever monetary Paradigm they're uh poised to introduce with all digital um you know currencies um and and things of that nature and I don't think that the bankers deserve ve our trust yeah they rob us and they've never been held accountable they've never given the money back and they they keep screwing us um and finding new ways to convince us to trust them um and um I I think
(1:48:37) it's bad I think debt slavery is terrible um and should never ever be used again people should do their best to do everything they can uh to really root it out because debt slavery is slavery at the end of the day and there's been a global effort to her us into a slavery system so uh let's not give it to them please yeah you know and we we're we're criminals now they just haven't written the laws like like we've just seen that I mean as much as we want to talk about how badass Bitcoin is and all this stuff it's like you know
(1:49:08) there's nothing that Ross did necessarily that was illegal maybe some things but uh but but but for the most part those legislations and those laws came out like kind of through Discovery in this weird way of oh actually no that is illegal actually it is illegal for the tornado cash people to do what they did actually it is illegal for the samurai guys with but to exchange prime numbers to to to a right code that lets you exchange prime numbers with yourself I mean the samurai one is really insane I think there are some things you could
(1:49:37) argue with the raw stuff maybe that that that was true obviously I think he's a hero and and and and the state obviously but I think the samurai thing is really interesting it's like in the tornado cach like they wrote those laws uh it wasn't illegal what they were doing when they did it uh and it's certainly not illegal just because you write a speech you know you write code and then someone uses that code to do something bad with it it's not illegal to make a gun and then someone uses that gun and shoots someone uh obviously
(1:50:02) that's bad um did we disconnect there or we are we still here we're still here no oh great sorry obviously it's you know it's not illegal to make a gun and then have someone take that gun and do something illegal with it the the the maker of the gun isn't responsible somehow that's not the case with digital asset mixing um and I think that that's you know without privacy you know I think a lot of this uh um you know anti-state stuff you know kind of goes away unfortunately we need privacy um we need to figure that out um and they're
(1:50:30) going to just move the laws uh to arrest you know the good people that are working on these on these projects and as they sort of begin to you know again what I really think is is happening with the stable coin play is extending the regulatory reach of the US government by saying anyone that touches a dollar uh is under our jurisdiction um well they just spent the last 30 years spreading the dollar uh all across the world um it's it's the the globe is dollarized um and so now they have jurisdictional um you know rights over
(1:51:03) everybody and they can you know make up the rules and say well hey if you did this without kyc or whatnot now you're a criminal um I think it's it's a scary precedent to drop down into um and so I think as much as we need to you know press to get our heroes out that that did get arrested we also need to sort of like establish that this is speech yeah um and is something that needs to be defended you know from the amendment level um and that can't be applied to people outside of the United States it's it is ridiculous that Roger ver was
(1:51:31) arrested let's give props where props are due to some people on Wall Street particularly Ross Stevens and I dig who really stuck his neck out there and wrote a white paper about why Bitcoin is speech it should be labeled as such and it's funny and he quoted all the inscription uh that uh you know apparently it's like CCP or whatever um I've just heard some absolutely ridiculous comments on some of the ordinal stuff and I don't give a about ordinals but I like the inscription stuff and and I think that it is speech and if if maybe Bitcoin is
(1:52:02) going to be used uh in uh to empower the state well hey maybe we can invert some of that stuff and we can publish ridiculous things on it and and and and make some cool things happen um with people like us that have Bitcoin that that can kind of use it in a in a in a dissonant way and I think that's the big question the big hope is that uh is Wall Street G to use their will to bend Bitcoin or is Bitcoin going to use its will to bend Wall Street to act in a more uh free Freedom oriented fashion I have to get on a call we need to do
(1:52:35) another episode soon because in your latest piece you mentioned light Sparks which I think is actually a big problem that needs to be highlighted and talked about and avoided uh I agree thank you say man you are the man I agree we'll do a whole rip on that we need to catch up on that I've got to hop on the SC thank you guys for doing you're doing um let's do it again real soon because I do want to jump into that topic specifically cuz I think that's something that people should be aware of and sounds great thank you make America
(1:53:03) great again bab make America healthy again Joel Sal I'm G to say Joel Salon I saw that I was like maybe maybe we're going to get something here yeah let's do it baby peace and love freaks
