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Gary Brode explains how Trump is crashing stocks to lower debt costs, using tariffs to reshape trade and Bitcoin as a hedge against fiat collapse.
Gary Brode explains how the Trump administration is deliberately crashing stock markets to push capital into bonds, lowering yields and reducing debt financing costs amid a growing fiscal crisis. With interest payments surpassing $1 trillion annually, Brode argues that the U.S. is now printing dollars to pay interest on previous debt, a classic Ponzi scheme. He blames former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen’s decision to shorten debt maturities for exacerbating market instability, forcing more frequent refinancing, and leaving new Treasury Secretary Scott Bessonet to manage $5 trillion in debt over six months. To counter this, the administration is using erratic tariff policies to create uncertainty, discouraging equity investment in favor of bonds. While tariffs are often criticized as inflationary, Brode highlights their role in reshoring manufacturing and job creation, citing major corporate investments in the U.S. He also frames Trump’s aggressive trade policies as strategic, using extreme initial positions to secure better deals, particularly with NATO and European allies. Beyond trade, Brode warns of an unsustainable fiscal trajectory, with $200 trillion in unfunded obligations threatening either an inflationary stealth default or an explicit restructuring of entitlements. He sees Bitcoin as a long-term hedge against fiat collapse, with growing institutional adoption and state-level interest reinforcing its role in financial stability. Brode concludes by contrasting Western democracies' increasing financial controls with the economic freedom emerging in Argentina and El Salvador, warning that the U.S. must adapt or face the same fate as other debt-ridden economies.
This episode explores the fragile state of the U.S. economy, revealing a government caught in a debt spiral and making desperate financial moves through market manipulation, tariffs, and trade policy. While these strategies may provide short-term relief, long-term structural issues—unsustainable debt and entitlement spending—remain unresolved. For investors and policymakers, understanding these dynamics is crucial, as hard assets like Bitcoin may serve as a necessary hedge against economic instability. As the U.S. navigates growing financial turbulence, the key question remains: Can it sustain this balancing act, or is an inevitable reckoning ahead?
0:00 - Intro
0:49 - The problem with bonds
7:21 - Tariffs and short term pain
10:29 - Art of the Deal
20:03 - Fold & Bitkey
21:46 - Europe is anti-freedom
26:04 - Cutting spending
38:07 - Unchained Announcement
38:38 - KPIs for a better direction
43:16 - Populism
50:45 - How will bitcoin react?
58:49 - Bitcoin credit
1:06:42 - Understand today or be surprised tomorrow
(00:00) they will crash the stock market to push money out of high-risk equities and toward the perceived Safe Haven of bonds more demand for bonds means lower yields for bonds means better financing costs for the US government and if you want to talk about how tariffs are another tax how they'll lead to more inflation fine but then also acknowledge that we're going to be looking at more jobs and an increase in domestic Supply that will alleviate some of that price pressure let's say doge has some success the accounting for GDP will decrease we will
(00:29) see a gigant IC increase in unemployment claims the way we keep score on these things is going to look really bad we are printing dollars today to pay the interest on dollars we printed last year that is the definition of a Ponzi schi Gary bro it's great to have you on tftc finally we've done a couple episodes in years past on the last trade podcast but this is your first time on tftc welcome to tftc thanks Marty I appreciate you having me uh like I said I'm very happy that you're on the show today considering everything that is
(01:07) going on in Market bond yields blowing out in Europe and Japan equities markets falling here in the United States and like I said I only had a minute to check I imagine they're down everywhere and you just read a piece last night talking about this expression that's become more popular over the last couple months which is they're going to crash the stock market to save the bond market and that has been a growing narrative and it seems like it's at least today the last two days it has been playing out that way yeah that that's definitely
(01:40) happening um and you're right it's an Expression A lot of people are using but what I'm finding is uh a lot of people who aren't professional investors like they're sort of nodding along but they don't really know what it means um and I think it's worth it to explain to people that there are two things that have happened that they should be aware of one is all of last year you know there was of focus on government interest payments which last year crossed a trillion dollars now our interest payments are roughly the size of our
(02:08) defense budget if that gives you a sense and it's also worth pointing out that and this is you know my Pro Bitcoin anti- Fiat piece here um but we are in a situation right now where we are printing dollars today to pay the interest on dollars we printed last year that is the definition of a Ponzi scheme right I that's that's where we are the second thing that contributed to the problem was Janet Yellen who I think was a terrible uh Secretary of the Treasury decided to make a political play with the duration of our treasury Securities
(02:41) and that's just a fancy Finance way of saying that what she did was when she refinanced our debt that was maturing over the last year uh she went with shorter durations so 10-year Securities or 5year Securities got refinanced for six months or one year and that leads to a couple of problems right one is um if you refinance 10-year paper with 10year paper then that money only needs to be refinanced once every decade but if you do it with one year paper then you have to refinance it 10 times in the decade and what that did was it
(03:17) led to larger and larger treasury auctions and we had really large tailes last year again just a fancy way of saying the demand was much lower than what Market rates would would have suggested and so the reason Yellen did this is by issuing fewer five and 10year securities what she wanted to do was decrease the supply of that that increases the price which in turn lowers the yield and what she was trying to do which you'd want to do if your party were running for re-election would be reduce the costs of corporate borrowing
(03:51) and mortgage borrowing now it didn't work because everybody understood that we were in Ponzi scheme territory and it was hugely ineffective but here the problem that we have and we were just working on this yesterday uh one of our new interns cash and Crow did a terrific graph yesterday showing that you know we've got $28 trillion of uh treasury Securities outstanding five trillion of that has to be refinanced in the next six months 7 trillion in the next 12 months so new treasury secretary Scott Binet has a
(04:25) gigantic problem how do we refinance all of that and if he tries to do that you know all at once we're going to have a problem uh because that interest expense is going to overwhelm us and there's a not so crazy path to us having 1.5 1.6 trillion dollars of interest expense by year end and that would be a gigantic problem for the budget right I mean that's you know we're now talking about increases in interest expense in line with you know good optimistic projections of what Doge could cut and so we'd have a budget problem and that
(04:59) leads to inflation and so what the administration is trying to do right now is they're desperately trying to reduce bond yields and they don't care they will crash the stock market to push money out of high-risk equities and toward the perceived Safe Haven of bonds and I don't think US Treasury Securities are a safe haven because inflation will eat away the purchasing power that you're going to be paid back in of the currency you're going to be paid back in um but they they need to get the s down and so what we're seeing is they're
(05:32) trying to push people out of the equity markets and into the bond market more demand for bonds means lower yields for bonds means better financing costs for the US government and you know the thing that I think is really interesting is in his first term president Trump used the stock market as a um kind of a report card to say look I've done a great job managing the economy the stock market is up to give you a sense of the level of urgency here they're taking actions they know are going to make stocks go down
(06:03) right and for a guy who really likes to use the stock market as a report card president Trump is basically saying you know send it down right now right kill stocks crash stocks right now we'll deal with the rest later um but we need to refinance this so I think that's a big chunk of what we've seen you know through all of this week and it also is I think one of the reasons why the communication on tariffs has been so chaotic right that the the fact that the Tariff talks change on a daily basis right we're going to tariff Canada and
(06:38) Mexico we're going to delay for a month we're going to tariff Canada and Mexico maybe we'll give a break on some things maybe not other things right there's all of this uncertainty and the stock market hates uncertainty the bond market loves it so I think that's part of what's going on right they're trying to push money from from one set of instruments to another because it's a desperate situation it really is and they've had some success obviously the 10year yield has come down I believe about 20 basis points for the the last six weeks or so
(07:09) wasn't it it it was 4.8 just uh like a month or two I think two months ago and it's now down under 4.3 so that's a meaningful decrease yeah and to your point about Trump's first Administration really using the stock market as a kpi it was I don't know if you picked up up on this during the State of the Union Address but I was pretty shocked and I didn't see too many people commenting on it maybe he said something outside of the State of the Union that made it so it wasn't worth commenting on but it was the first time I've heard him sort of
(07:43) choreographing a disturbance in the market he was talking about tariffs in the context of tariffs and he said there may be a little disturbance in the markets because of this but but we'll get through it it was the first time I've ever seen them publicly admit to economic weakness on the horizon in America while he's president yeah I I agree with that and he this is something he mentioned very early uh in his first week or two when he started talking about tariffs he did say you know you should expect there's going to be some
(08:15) short-term pain here and and he's right and I'm actually glad to hear him speaking honestly and preparing people for what's going to come the other thing is look I think I've seen some really good um honest AR arguments both for and against tariffs the thing that I don't like is a lot of people talking about this stuff are very myopic right they they only want to make their point which I understand but they should acknowledge the complexity of the issue so you know for example all the people who are saying you know look this is effectively
(08:49) a tax increase this is going to lead to more inflation they have valid points but look at what's happened in the last week right we've seen announcements of uh $500 billion of um of PPN being built by Apple more than a hundred billion dollars by Taiwan semiconductor uh I forget who it was some uh one of the automakers just moved production from Mexico to the US um you know that's a lot of jobs that's a lot of economic growth that's a lot of fixing something that has crushed our middle class and our blue collar workers
(09:25) for decades as so much of this work has been outsourced and these are also things that will increased domestic Supply you know and so that's one of the reasons why you know the first time around with tariffs we didn't necessarily see um a huge amount of inflation now there were other things going on at the time and a lot of the tariffs weren't fully implemented and didn't you know there was a lot going on but the point of all this is I'd like to see people acknowledge the complexity of it and if you want to talk about how
(09:54) tariffs are you know another tax how they'll lead to more inflation fine those are valid points but then also acknowledge that we're going to be looking at more jobs and an increase in domestic Supply that will alleviate some of that price pressure so I just think it's more complicated than a lot of the pundits are making it seem because they're more talking their book than trying to explain what's happening and and I give president Trump credit for saying these I believe these tariffs will improve the economy and I want to
(10:23) resore manufacturing but he's he's flat out saying we're going to take some short-term pain and at least he's being honest about it I love that too and I I said this before he was inaugurated like looking at the rhetoric on the campaign Trail particularly around tff's favorite word it's going to be your favorite word tariffs um it that was I think I wrote a newsletter about it in December like I hope that he is extra communicative with the market about there is going to be some short-term pain and very happy to
(10:54) see him following through on that and on the topic of tariffs not only people thinking myopically about potential inflationary pressures which as you mentioned are certainly there but you have to take the whole picture uh into frame here and not only the reshoring of jobs but I think the the most startling thing to me was learning about how much other countries are already tariffing our goods and it's sort of a a reciprocal reaction to What countries in Europe and Canada and all over the world have done to to us Goods it was
(11:31) something I was unaware of up until this Administration Marty I'm so glad you brought that up because I think it's a really important point A lot of people are mistakenly saying well he's just raising tariffs or saying these tariffs hurt us and and people are understandably responding okay wait a minute but these other countries are tariffing us and you know the response is well if they're doing something stupid we don't have to do anything stupid either and it's kind of like you know when you were six your mom said if
(11:58) all your friends jumped off a bridge would would you do that too except like you were pointing out reality is much more complicated and much more nuanced so if we use a hypothetical example where you know one country has 20% tariffs on our goods and we have no tariffs on theirs and then we do as you said uh Implement reciprocal tariffs and we say okay now we're going to put 20% tariffs on your goods that incentivizes them to say well what if we cut our tariffs oh then we can cut ours and they say what if we cut further then we can
(12:29) cut ours further and so you know you end up in a bad situation when you let other people D dictate the terms and have one-sided non-reciprocal Relationships by forcing reciprocal relationships people are saying oh my God you know now they're going to be more tariffs not necessarily right by by using reciprocal tariffs and indicating you raise yours we're going to raise you lower we'll lower with you we're giving these other countries an incentive to say well wait a minute we don't like that you're going to have tariffs on us if we lower ours
(13:01) okay we'll lower too and so there is a path to everybody deescalation and putting the US in a relatively better position than we were in before these policies were pursued yeah and all the people throwing their hands in the air and complaining about this particularly about the way Trump is approaching these tariff negotiations it's it's almost as if nobody understands he wrote the book art of the deal and they don't understand and the way he approaches negotiation generally when he was a businessman in the private
(13:36) sector now as president of the United States the fact that people hav't picked up on his whole stick which is I'm just going to Anchor I'm going to come out of the gate and anchor at something so extreme that it sounds insane and everybody throws their hands up and inevitably like you're saying people get to the table they have a negotiation and they meet at a spot that was likely exactly where Trump wanted to meet in the first place and the fact that I you can't you can't really rely on the media pundits to to be truthful about this
(14:07) tactic and try to present an accurate picture to the American people but I think broadly the American populace needs to begin to really internalize that this is a tactic that he literally wrote a book about yeah I I think your point is phenomenal right the the using the the dire extreme rhetoric and threats to get to you know to get people to panic into being where he wants them to be the other thing is uh about a month ago I wrote a series of Articles um on how to interpret Trump's tariff talks and one of the things that I wrote
(14:44) over and over and over again is he frequently doesn't want tariffs he wants to use the threat of tariffs to get cooperation on non-economic issues right and so you know one of the things I wrote a month ago is he's he's talking about tariffs on Europe now reciprocal tariffs are fine they should not have tariffs on their allies where we don't we we should have a Level Playing Field with them but more than that I think you know he uses the threat of tariffs with Europe to push them to uh pay their NATO defense Bill and they have been
(15:19) underspending on defense because we've had their backs for you forever it's been a long long-term problem and so you know we're in a situation like why are German bonds dropping this week right the reason German bonds are dropping is because the German government came out and they said we're going to exclude increases in defense spending from our budget process they're basically saying we're going to spend more on defense and not count it you know under our budget cap and and what that tells you is they've been under spending on defense
(15:51) and overspending on social welfare programs and we've effectively been footing the bill for that so for president Trump to use the threat of tariffs to get Europe to live up to their agreements you know I I think is is really good gamesmanship and people are getting upset about it but why right if you know they're saying why is why is he taking sides against our allies my question is why are our allies not living up to their agreements with us yeah it's it's a big mask off moment for to your point the way our allies have treated us
(16:28) over the course of decades to your point people are reacting to what's going on now and not questioning how we got to this position in the first place it's it's is viewed and portrayed by the media as the United States getting really hyper aggressive and combative with her allies and it's perceived as America trying to be the bully but it's like no actually we've been somewhat getting bullied for for decades and we're just trying to really settle the score in the schoolyard right now get back to even and begin driving
(17:05) accountability as we look at how high our national debt has gotten how high our defense spending is our interest expense on the debt is and saying this is unsustainable for us it's time for you all to get your act together and stop depending on the American ATM yeah I I think that's important and there are a lot of people making the argument that you know we should have closed up n in you know uh 35 years ago a little under that when the Berlin Wall came down and that's not a bad argument right that the NATO was established to prevent
(17:43) Soviet expansion into Western Europe but you know once they gave that up um it's not clear to me what we're trying to accomplish right now no not at all the and I think it's been it's been a crazy first six weeks in office the meeting with seninsky uh and Trump in vance obviously it's very famous right now and the the posturing that was going on there and another I think shocking moment for the American Media and broader populace who sort of Fallen prey to the the propaganda that we've been subjected to for many years literally being a gas at
(18:25) the prospect of a president and a vice president standing up and saying you're not going to bully Us in the Oval Office like please come back when you're when you're down to negotiate like a legitimate adult and and then and obviously with what's going on with Russia and Ukraine it's extremely um polarizing uh and and triggering for people but I think any objective Observer who's seen what's going on over there over the last 3 years has to recognize that there's no good end to this unless you try to get both parties
(18:59) to the table to negotiate on something well and that's one of the things that that concerns me um because every time president Trump says look I want to sit down with Vladimir Putin and talk this out people get hysterical and they say oh he's courting dictators all right well here's the deal there's a war going on how are you going to stop that war without talking to the other side right and like it doesn't mean he's courting dictators or that you know he's he's saying you know the US and Russia are going to be best friends and you know
(19:31) we're going to eject NATO and that's that's not what's happening but if you want to stop a war and I think this war needs to stop I don't know how extending it benefits anybody um how do you do that without talking to the other side without sitting down and saying where do we have areas of agreement where do we have areas of overlap how do we come to a point where we can have people stop killing each other and US funding it like there there's no part of this that's good for anybody Su freaks do you have a credit card are you
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(21:39) 20 at checkout for 20% off your order that's bit keyworld code tfc2 what's I'm trying to figure out how to frame this because I think Europe's reaction to all this has been very unsettling for me personally I don't know if you follow the the journalist Michael Tracy but he's over in Europe right now and he posted a tweet this morning uh he literally can't read the tweets of RT and some other outlet from Russia because they're blocked in Europe like Europe is turning into this uh Free Speech hating sort of communist economic Union that is real
(22:22) again unsettling and unnerving as an American looking at what is supposed to be our our great greatest Ally in terms of the Coalition of countries over in Europe and they're turning into a completely despotic sort of dystopian hellscape and honestly a lot of people may get pissed from saying this like I don't know if I want to back the leaders over there and their political posturing and the way they're looking to approach this I'm almost at the point where it's like Europe up you seem very confused and going down the wrong path like I don't I
(22:59) don't want to support um the the goals and the solutions that they're putting out there and that's very again uh polarizing in today's world yeah it's I mean it is interesting that people are hysterically screaming that President Trump wants to sit down and talk to Putin and they're saying he's quing dictators but they're supporting as our allies people who are jelling their citizens for sharing memes on social media like I you know listen I I get you don't like what these people are saying or writing or posting um but but
(23:35) stopping them from doing that and putting people in jail over social media posts is it's just you know that's the kind of thing dictators do right that's not what you expect from a western liberal democracy and so as you just pointed out they're pursuing policies that are not consistent with those of Western liberal democracies and you know it's not just um the memes on social media it's not just Europe right a couple years ago we saw what uh what Shau did with the Canadian truckers right these were people who were protesting for bodily
(24:12) autonomy and you know for the people listening to this maybe you were provax maybe you were antia maybe you took it maybe you didn't but these people didn't want to and they didn't want to be forced to and they didn't want to lose their jobs and that to me seems like a sensible choice that people should be allowed to make for themselves it is a personal choice whether you wanted to take that shot or not and you know what was very concerning is they had a peaceful protest um and the government froze their bank accounts and you know
(24:41) so when people have said you know why why do we need Bitcoin because the government can't freeze your Bitcoin account right because you own that you own those assets and so you know what we're really seeing are examples of creeping tyranny through tons and tons of these Western liberal democracies and what I'm seeing on the other side of that is an increasing push toward capitalism in Asia and toward individual freedom in South America right so we're seeing in places like Argentina and El Salvador um you know and South America
(25:21) there these are people who are saying we want more freedom we want more economic um autonomy you know know and and they're getting it and their crime rate in some of these places are dropping the inflation rate is dropping you know you see what's happening to the places that are pursuing autocratic policies which is you know what we had referred to as our first world allies and Western liberal democracies and you know other parts of the world which we had viewed as you know maybe b banana republics or you know formerly communist countries uh
(25:55) they're embracing freedom in a way that you know that Europe should be completely agree and bringing this back to American Economic Policy I I think it's been pretty clear to people at least I'm running with the assumption that Trump was handed a flaming bag of trash and to manufacture the quote unquote soft Landing that's been talked about for many years maybe have to recognize number one that it won't be a soft land Landing as Trump has been sort of choreographing over the last couple of months and on top of that you got to
(26:34) thread the needle domestically with your economic policy and what you're doing with tariffs but you have all these external variables at play like as we were mentioning before we had recorded you have UK uh bond market hitting levels we haven't seen since Liz truss was an office for a couple of weeks you have the Japanese uh yield curve exploding as well how thinking from an American perspective how do we navigate what we're trying to do here as all this is happening externally and on top of all that we've seen an incredible amount of
(27:13) gold flood into the US borders as well yeah so are these landmines or are these what the ultimate goal of our policies is in a way yeah so by the way in addition to having huge Bitcoin positions I I a lot of gold as well um and you know we're certainly seeing that I I here's the lens that I'm using to think about this I think it's really important I've been talking for a couple of years about us being in a bifurcated economy uh so for some for a small part of the population this economy is working great for a large part of the
(27:51) population inflation is just eroding their standard of living um and so I think it's really important to se separate the real economy from the fake economy uh and I can send you a chart on this we put this in last week's five things to know but government increase in debt last quarter exceeded the increase in GDP and that was the case for the quarter before that and the quarter before that and so what that tells you is that our GDP growth is not real uh it is based on increases in government spending it's all debt fueled
(28:27) it's a patkin economy we've created the illusion of a good economy uh simply by pouring Fiat dollars at the issue and you know dealing with the inflation on the other end of it and so you know there's an old um like Keynesian or mmt which stands for modern monetary Theory um saw that you know you can create economic stimulus by you know we'll grab a group of people we'll pay them a trillion dollars to dig holes we'll pay these people a trillion dollars to fill in holes we've created nothing of value but we have $2 trillion
(29:07) dollar of stimulus for the economy isn't that great and jobs right and that's how Washington DC thinks about things that's how keynesians think about things you know I I think uh I tell me if it was Paul Krugman um who was talking about well we could just pay people to spit at the moon right like stimulus is stimulus and my point on all of this is no we have a patkin economy and if the increase in government debt is greater than the increase in your GDP what that means is that your productive private sector is shrinking while government
(29:44) waste theft money laundering and other malfeasant is increasing and you know what we're finding out is that the levels of Fraud and theft are off the charts High beyond what even you know small government Advocates like myself even thought like it's worse than even I thought and I've been pessimistic on this for decades and so here's what's going to happen Marty let's say doge has some success right they're not going to get to2 trillion doll a year that's that's not going to happen but could they get to half a
(30:19) trillion a trillion dollars over the next years I don't know maybe you know and so on one hand what people are saying is wait a minute that's going to to have two effects we're going to crash GDP which is true the accounting for GDP will decrease but I will remind everybody nobody's losing goods and services as a result of that right government theft are paying people to dig ditches and paying other people to fill in ditches wasteful spending um moneya laundering does not produce economic activity it's simply
(30:53) inflation causing stimulus that gives us the illusion of GDP growth this is like the economic version of spinal taps RS go to 11 right what is it that matters your your actual like the sound that you're getting or how you label that sound right the the economy that you have or how you label it and so if Doge manages to cut government spending by a meaningful amount realize that even though we're cutting wasteful programs even though we're cutting things that produce no economic benefit for Americans the way we account for that in
(31:31) GDP will crash the other thing that will happen is we will see a gigantic increase in unemployment claims and an increase in the unemployment rate and we're starting to see that right in DC have you seen Marty have you seen those uh charts with the number of homes for sale and then combine that with the number of people who were Googling uh the increase defense yeah and extradition right like if you're selling your home and Googling criminal defense extradition and you know um offshore offshore money funds or whatever maybe
(32:07) this is stuff we should be cutting right like these are is that is that economic analysis no but you know maybe we should be thinking about if this is the reaction maybe we're poking in the right place so you know here's the question Marty would you take action if it meant we cut government theft wasteful spending not actual money going to Veterans or you know Medicare or medic not the actual real government services if we cut waste but doing so led to a a lower GDP print and a higher unemployment print even though those
(32:49) jobs didn't have economic value for American citizens would you do that I would president Trump has made it clear he would but people should be aware that the numbers coming out the way we're like it's again it's our RS go to 11 moment the way we keep score on these things uh is going to look really bad when all of this gets implemented yes I agree with you I would I would take it as well and I would argue this is the most incredible thing that could happen to I think individuals like ourselves who have a particular
(33:22) view on the world particularly post 2008 is that the Q and the stimulus that we've seen over the last 17 years now at this point many people have been beating the drum like we need to stop doing this it's creating these asset bubbles enabling a wealth transfer like there has to come a point where we take the hard medicine and reset the economy which will come with some economic turmoil and maybe stock markets decline correct maybe something happens in the bond market and for the longest time the the there's been an inability to do that
(34:01) because it it's somewhat uh socially or psychologically untenable for some reason or another but now with Doge and the incredible amount of overt fraud that is being Unearthed I think you have a catalyst and an environment where people throwing their hands up like screw it destroy the system I don't care if GDP is down 3% for three quarters in a row like actually I feel like the it's never something I've been hoping would happen over the last 15 years we finally have again a catalyst to to effectuate that type of necessary resetting of the
(34:39) system and taking our hard medicine yeah and and honestly like you know is our economy we we might have a bad GDP print but can we survive cutting off uh Social Security payments for people who are more than 150 years old I would think so I mean you know maybe we can manage that you know it's this is theft and there were systems in place to ensure that nobody questioned it you know that that nobody got marked is dead um this stuff we can fix that without actual um damage to the economy and you know going to
(35:15) this issue I think it's really important explaining to people the difference between this is reality and this is how we keep score you know on a personal note I had uh something happen a number of years back where I was refinancing the mortgage on my house and you know the bank came to me and they said we can't refinance you I said why they said your income was negative I said no it wasn't well it turns out what had happened was I was running a hedge fund at the time and I had invested a huge amount of my own capital in the hedge
(35:49) fund so when I got my K1 it shows investing inflows into a private partnership right as negative cash flow for me and I said guys that that's not negative income that was me investing and they said well but it shows up as negative income I said so what do I need to do they said well if you were to withdraw the money and recognize that value uh then then we would qualify you I said let me get this straight I took a huge amount of money and instead of spending it I invested in it I invested it and that makes you think that I'm a
(36:27) credit risk but if I were to withdraw that money and spend it on uh you know private air travel and Candy you would then view me as a more attractive uh credit and you would give me a mortgage then they say yeah okay and it's always I don't I don't make the rules I know it sounds insane but yeah this is just the way it works no no they didn't they didn't even do the yeah I know it sounds insane like they're like no these are the rules this is how it works and and I had to point out to them so you're going to punish me
(37:00) for not spending and investing and you would reward me for not investing and spending and again I you know I can't emphasize this enough this is why Bitcoin is important these kinds of incentives in traditional finance and by the way this is where the world is going with cbdcs right Central Bank digital currencies um they're trying to push people to spend money they're trying to push people to not invest they're trying to push everybody into a debt fueled consumption servitude right and it's it's horrible and the incentives to invest are bad and
(37:43) they're you know they would get worse if they tell you your money is going to expire right use it or lose it and this is this is horrible stuff and the thing that's really great about Bitcoin is it encourages people to take a longer view a longer time Horizon um and I think that's that's really important for society and for actual economic growth there are huge advantages to hard money over programmed money Su freaks Bitcoin is the ultimate scarce asset join Bitcoin macro expert Nick baa at a live online event on March
(38:13) 17th for death taxes and 21 million learn how to Shield your wealth leverage tax advantaged accounts and secure your Bitcoin for future Generations your financial adviser accountant or attorney might not be up to speed on bitcoin so invite them to join too register now at unchain dcom tftc that's unchain dcom FTC March 17th be there and before we dive into your views on bitcoin moving forward as it reacts to everything going on in the world staying on this necessity for the broader public to recognize that GDP going down is actually a good thing
(38:55) cuz you're eliminating this waste and fraud that that exist within the government in the United States yes unemployment may go up GDP may go down what are sort of metrics indicators sectors that people should be paying attention to that you believe would signal that things are getting back on the right path maybe as GDP is going down unemployment's going up what are the kpis that maybe the government or the media will not service that you think people should be looking at to gauge whether or not taking the hard Med
(39:30) medicine is actually successful in some way yeah I I think if you take government spending out of GDP it's not perfect but it does give you a decent proxy for what the private market economy is doing and that's the productive part of the economy that's where we produce goods and services um so I you know I think that's an interesting way to do it you know you can look at non-government payroll like one thing that's really important over the last four years we've seen all of these really positive employment prints
(40:10) except you know Marty there's been zero growth in full-time employment since 2019 right and so those employment metrics you know they double count part-time jobs so if somebody had a full-time job and they lose that full-time job and then they they get two or three part-time jobs that counts as two or three you know uh employment numbers and so you know when you look at that you you have to to figure wait a minute you know are people employed more do we have more people employed or the same people just working more to make
(40:46) ends meet right and so I think you know if you look at full-time employment private Market employment like and since 2019 the only growth we've had has been in government and sectors of employment that are um largely funded by government like healthcare right it's all government spending that's doing this and so I think if you look at you know GDP less government spending if you look at employment less government employment it again not perfect numbers but they'll give you directional proxies for the performance of the private
(41:27) market economy and the thing that I would do if I were the Trump Administration is I would be out in front of this explaining it to people and it's really difficult to explain but what I would do is say hey you know here's the United States here's our fiscal situation and then I would literally have a slide with a guy dressed like the Hamburglar right holding the bag with money and The Mask right and the striped shirt and the hat and say if we give this guy a trillion dollars and he steals it under the current system you will you American
(42:00) people you will pay for that trillion dollars through inflation and we the government will record a trillion dollars of GDP increase now if we get rid of our Hamburglar you know thieving guy if we just get rid of him and get rid of that trillion dollars of theft you won't have to pay for that it will reduce future inflation but hey everyone I just want you to know you're going to see in that hypothetical example a trillion dollar decrease in GDP now I'm going to ask you someone tell me if we put a stop to people
(42:34) stealing from us is our economy in worse shape and every was like no no of course not okay great so when you see the decrease in GDP nobody panicked now will Wall Street go along with that probably not but I don't think that's the constituency he needs to talk to here I think he needs to talk to the American people and say some of the pain you're going to experience is real and temporary hopefully and some of what you're going to see are hysterical newspaper headlines telling you the economy is horrible here's how to
(43:06) interpret it we're going to give you our way of looking at it and then just compare our analysis with the analysis that you see in the mainstream media and then decide for yourself who has it right yeah again extra being extra communicative is going to be crucial to threading this needle and you brought up Wall Street Wall Street will be very interesting to follow throughout all this because of of course they've been major benefactors of this this theft this expansion of the debt this expansion of the monetary base and how
(43:37) does Wall Street adjust to this tectonic shift in in policy if if the Trump Administration stays true to it you know Marty one of the things we going to be talking about uh at Deep knowledge investing we're going to be starting a new weekly show called DKI foundations and we're going to be talking to people about investing basics and also for young people helping them understand career paths and finance things to do and one of the the episodes we haven't recorded it yet but we're really excited to record is I want to
(44:12) explain to young people how the policies that they've typically supported actually don't help them but end up helping wealthy establish people and I want them to see how in like in my case I you know I made inflation work for me I refinanced my mortgage in November of 2021 that timing was not a mistake right and I leveraged up I got the biggest mortgage I could possibly get and I locked it in for 30 years 10 years interest only so every month I pay the bank the same amount but here's my question for you Marty what happens to
(44:46) the purchasing power of that same check I write every month goes down increasing it goes down right what do you think like the the money that I pay them that fixed amount that I'm going to pay them 25 years from now 24 years from now what's it worth what are they going to buy with that a candy bar a loaf of bread pack of gum right they're not going to be able to buy one Bitcoin for it and so you know I was able to take that money leverage into property which is done really well own stocks own Bitcoin own gold hey I have a credit
(45:20) score that starts with an eight so I took on debt that's denominated in debased Fiat const ly in in Fiat dollars that are declining in purchasing power every month and I bought hard assets that works for me but now look at what's happens to people who don't have those kinds of resources right people got their stemies and they were really excited who doesn't like getting a $1,600 check from the government but then what we saw were people their monthly expenses went up by $100 or $200 so would you take $1,600 today and
(45:57) exchange for like $2,000 of annual increase in your costs like of course you wouldn't do it and so people got excited like free money the government loves us no you're paying for your stemies you're just paying for them at higher prices at the fuel pump or when you have to buy a car or you know get uh buy a house or groceries you know these are your electric bill like this is where these things are are playing out um and a lot of people don't understand that and so we're going to film a whole episode explaining to people how these
(46:35) inflationary policies how these free money giveaways end up hurting the people they are supposedly designed to help and end up being great for the Millionaires and billionaires that were all told are horrible people and shouldn't benefit from anything like the all of these policies that there's I saw something the other day someone said we can reliably uh count on Washington DC see whatever they name a bill or a program the program will do the opposite of what it says it's going to do the inflation reduction act that's
(47:07) that one I was thinking about yeah it's like between that or the Patriot Act it's uh yeah right yeah I mean so that we're going to we're going to print money hand out free money and that's going to reduce inflation no it will do the opposite yeah it's uh that that's the other thing like is there enough momentum right now to get us to the other side where people are able to look back with Clear Eyes Open Mind open heart and say that was wrong we need to we're we're going to do this phase shift this tectonic shift in
(47:40) policy and understanding how the economy works and stick with it or is this an ephemeral one admin adjustment that gets readjusted if four years from now unfortunately and I hope I'm wrong but I think we're just buying ourselves time um I mean even even going back 250 years ago the founders of the United States understood the danger of populism they intentionally set up a system to try to prevent for as long as possible the ability of people to vote for more benefits from others um and you know somebody might
(48:23) say oh you know you're so mean-spirited you hate the port no don't the policies that we have that supposedly help the poor don't they hurt the poor they help the wealthy right these it's but people you know they're addicted to free stuff and the idea that you can get something for free and you know these things they're very hard to control um especially once these ideas have taken play A Part taken hold in a population it's what we've seen in Argentina for decades right we would have these like peronist excesses
(48:58) and then you know every 15 years or so the citizens of Argentina would say you know what we we need to get serious we have to reduce inflation we have to get government spending under control and they would vote in a government to change things and as the government would start to change things and reduce the free giveaways people say no no no we we want you to fix the economy but don't reduce the giveaways that come to me okay well that's the problem with the economy right and everybody wanted the problem fixed but
(49:29) nobody wanted to give up their free stemies or their no work jobs or their unproductive jobs so you know these things are they're issues and it's really hard to get control of it once these ideas are are in a population and you know it was 100 years ago Argentina was the wealthiest Nation on the planet and then a hundred years of nonsense and you know again every 15 years they say okay let's clean it up but don't take any of my stuff you know we saw this by the way in Europe last week I saw a poll that the vast majority of
(50:04) Europeans thought that more should be done to help Ukraine but the majority in every country thought that money and those resources should come from other countries not theirs okay great but you know it's the the whole somebody should do something somebody by somebody I mean you and leave everything the same for me that that doesn't work no accountability is important again that hole explains a lot of the reaction that the Trump Administration got to that zilinsky meeting last week and and I mean on this point how do you see Bitcoin
(50:48) playing moving forward how do you see it reacting to all this obviously we've got equities dumping right now Trump's um Cory graphing some short-term turbulence who knows how shortterm that is maybe it is very shortterm and the FED is forc to step in print money and make a rip we've seen it's intraday probably not a lot of signal in it but there was some inverse movement between the price of Bitcoin Equity markets over the last day or two um does Bitcoin emerge as a perceived Safe Haven asset during all this is it already
(51:25) perceived that way in your mind um yeah that's at large enough scale yeah that's a really interesting question um if I were a Bitcoin Bearer and I'm not but let's you know let's flesh out the argument let's flesh out the argument against right let's be honest about it if the Trump Administration has any success doing what they're trying to do in terms of getting the budget deficit down reducing or eliminating wasteful spending all of those things make the dollar better and that's one of the reasons why we're
(52:01) seeing a decrease in bond yields right now right that's why the 10 years dropped 50 basis points over the last month or two um and so those are things that would strengthen the real value of the dollar the purchasing power of the dollar uh and again I I delineate between people who talk about the dollar where they look at Dixie right dxy the dollar Index that's versus other currencies so when people talk about a strong dollar they're when Traders talk about a strong dollar they're typically talking about versus other currencies if you're a
(52:36) foreign exchange Trader yeah the dollar is strong when I talk about a strong dollar I'm thinking about purchasing power and so you know things that reduce wasteful government spending are generally good for the purchasing power of the dollar and that you know is not necessarily bullish for the dollar price of Bitcoin with that said you know acknowledging the other side of it I've got a two-part thesis on bitcoin one is increased institutional adoption and that is exactly what we've seen you know people have forgotten it was less than a
(53:10) year ago that the the SEC approved the largest um the the Bitcoin ETFs the exchange traded funds which had the largest adoption the fastest adoption in history those things just added billions and billions ions of dollars of capital within a really short time that was less than a year ago and people are still just starting to figure out Pension funds are starting to figure out how big a part of our portfolio should this be we should have you know like and whether honestly Marty whether it's 50 basis points 1% 2% does it matter that's
(53:47) trillions of dollars of Pension funds out there um Family offices are just starting to figure this out you know one of the things we looked at this is a a few years back but at the time there were 44 million Us doll millionaires in the world now that number would be higher today 21 million Bitcoin with a bunch of them lost irretrievably right literally if every millionaire in the world wanted to own one Bitcoin they can't do it there aren't enough right I mean this is a level of scarcity we've never seen before um and we're at a point where
(54:22) millionaires won't be able to behold Corners so I think that's really important and we're starting to see like state governments how Marty how many state governments are voting on bitcoin and some you know the Skeptics might say yeah but they haven't approved it yet okay but you have dozens of States looking at this and looking at adding it to their Pension funds like at some point one of them is going to do it um the other thing is I think the things that the Trump Administration is doing are positive for the dollar but I don't
(54:53) think doge is going to cut $2 trillion I don't think our budget deficit is going to zero I think we're going to see continued increases in debt maybe at a slower rate than we would have seen had Camala Harris won the election but it's still going to increase and the thing that nobody wants to think about are are off-balance sheet liabilities right those are things like Medicare Medicaid Social Security pensions Obamacare all of that stuff those are obligations that we've incurred heard but haven't saved for right this is and you know for people
(55:32) who find that confusing just imagine this for a minute imagine that you know you your family you have a new baby today congratulations you know assuming that you you know want the best for your kid you may be thinking wow all right in 18 years I want to be able to send this kid to school send this kid to college you know what are we looking at you know today that could easily be a quarter of a million dollars 18 years from now it's going to be a whole lot more right and so do you start saving now or do you wait 18 years and say oh crap what do we
(56:10) do let's start borrowing well guess what the off-balance sheet liabilities of the US government are over $200 trillion there's we can't borrow that we can't create that you know when people talk about make the Millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share it's it's great rhetoric but there's no level of Taxation that gets you to $200 trillion add to that you know that what is it what's the debt Now 37 38 trillion around there we're the point add all this up we're very close to a quarter of a quadrillion dollars in debt I think we
(56:46) be there I think I think off balance sheets like 219 trillion last I check so we're there so a quarter of a quadrillion dollars there is no level of Taxation that like our economy can't produce that like what what's our economy right now like 30 trillion a year I mean we you know we'd have to have nobody consume anything for you know what is that years eight years eight nine years to get that like and that's so nobody gets to consume anything no food no like you got to be kidding me this is not possible and so
(57:25) you know I think we are unfortunately in full-blown Ponzi I think the things that that President Trump and Elon Musk are doing um will have positive effects if they succeed and I hope they do in cutting wasteful spending um but I just think long term there's a reason every fiat currency in history has gone to zero um you know for the the recent Bitcoin white paper that we put out the re-release um you know we had taken a look there's 775 Fiat currencies in history they've all gone to zero and someone might say
(58:04) well wait a minute you know what about the British pound that's been around for 350 years yeah and it's lost more than 99% of its value in that time like at what point do we call it a failure you know the US dollar it's been around for almost 250 years and it's lost 96 97% of its value since 1800 and most of that since the establishment of the Federal Reserve just over a hundred years ago right that's that I if we were to invest in equities and lose1 19 out of $20 or 24 out of $25 we'd invested we'd call it
(58:35) a failure so you know as long as there's just more of this going on I I I you know there's a reason Bitcoin is my largest position yeah it is over and and it's funny and in the moment I've caught myself doing this you're very excited about do and like the intentions and the actions are admirable and we should be eliminating waste and overt theft as much as possible despite the overarching debt situation that exists but you have to like you said a quarter of a quadrillion dollars in on balance sheet and off-balance sheet debt that the US owes
(59:19) to Future Americans it is yeah it's not going to happen you know that that's something recognizing this inevitable uh outcome which is the complete debasement of the dollar where I sit as a bitcoiner not only personally investing in it but running a a venture fund trying to fund companies that can help fix this problem as we transition to a new monetary standard I think there's a high likelihood it could be Bitcoin at some point in the next couple of decades it's how do you how do you bridge the G Gap and lessen the blow of
(59:59) this inevitable blow up and that's one thing I'm interested to get your thoughts on is this idea of beginning like the problem that exists not only at the government level but even in the private sector is that you have a bunch of debt particularly shitty debt with bad collateral and so beginning to in inject Bitcoin into the credit system start with the private credit system obviously us government's talking about a Bitcoin strategic Reserve so you get it into the public sector there but like literally creating products we have a
(1:00:33) company in the portfolio called battery and they just did their first underwriting of a big commercial real estate property in Philadelphia where they provided them dollars via loan to refinance their 10-year commercial real estate loan took some of the proceeds to pay off that mortgage some to um uh do some Renovations on the building and then some put in Bitcoin that's held in the loan structure and the borrower and the lender based off of how long the borrower stays in the loan share on the upside appreciation of the Bitcoin so I
(1:01:08) think point of this long-winded rant by me is really to put it out there for bitcoiners and anybody who's looking at this problem and feeling extremely overwhelmed it is a massive problem it is an objective Ponzi scheme that should be recognized by everybody but you should begin to think creatively of how you recapitalize the system with assets like Bitcoin particularly refinancing bad debt and injecting Bitcoin is collateral yeah they're going to need to do something and they really have two options um one is the stealth default
(1:01:48) where you know we just have you know once the Baby Boomers retire you know they're going to be a huge huge drain on the social social security system and they you know they can say well we worked for years we paid into the system okay great but the money isn't there so you know it's it's not a matter of deserve or need it's a matter of you know like like the example I always use Marty um you know let's say you and I place a betat on a basketball game today right and we bet a billion dollars and you win the bat right you're right I'm
(1:02:25) wrong you win here's my question are you a billionaire no because I can't pay it and and you could go to court and you could say we had a contract I won and the court could say we agree with you Marty okay Gary pay him I don't have it like there's no there's no there's no Universe where you're a billionaire because your claim is on an entity that can't deliver on the promises that were made and so that's that's where we are right now and so we've got two options one is the stealth default where we just print so
(1:03:03) many dollars that people are paid what they're owed but they're paid in dollars that are worthless right we basically inflate our way not only of the national debt but out of our off-balance sheet liabilities and you know imagine you know getting a Social Security payment and you know saying okay well great you can buy a pack of gum now you know that's that would be the stealth def the overt default which would be politically very hard somebody would have to agree to be you know all of Congress would have to
(1:03:34) agree their one term and it would be a one-term president but basically what we need to do is restructure our social safety net um there's just no Universe where the math works right now and if you think about it the original purpose of Social Security is people would retire at you know like 62 and they would typically live for one or two years so they paid into the system for about 40 or 50 years about 40 years sorry they paid into the system for about 40 years and then they lived off of it for one or two and that math
(1:04:07) worked especially when you had a growing Workforce um but now here's where we are people are largely unproductive for the first quarter Century of their lives well okay you know we can't expect a 5-year-old to be productive or a 10-year-old and you know do we want all the 18year olds out in the world well you know some of them probably should go to school if we want doctors and Engineers right and then you know they graduate from school and they get a good job but it takes a little while to become productive like okay I see that
(1:04:36) it's not crazy to expect somebody to get through a quarter Century before being effective or productive all right that makes sense but the problem we have is on the other end people now want to retire at you know say 62 but they're living to 85 or 87 or 90 and now there's another quarter century on the other side of that and so you know it's really easy for people to say well you know tax the rich okay great but there is no math where a society uh where where it works for a society to pay people or where you have
(1:05:13) people who are unproductive for half a century of their lives we that that math doesn't work and so we need to rethink our social safety net and again people will say that I'm mean I'm cruel I no that's not it the system we have is unstable it is unsustainable if we want these programs to exist we cannot count on the system to support people for half a century of being unproductive we we just can't do that that math doesn't work and so if you want these programs if you care about these people if you want these
(1:05:49) programs to be solvent and sustainable we need to rethink it and a program that was originally designed to to support people for a year or two is now being used for two to three plus decades and that that we just we need to figure out something to do with that but that would be an overt default now not a bond market default I'm not saying that we're going to default on treasuries and you know tell everybody no you're not getting your money I'm not talking about like an Argentina or gree style default I'm talking about going to the our own
(1:06:22) citizens where we have obligations to them and saying listen we cannot meet these obligations we need to restructure just like you know at Marty if you dealt with bankruptcy you like you go to your creditors and you say you can try to enforce this but I don't have the money we need to restructure this is why I love speaking with you Gary because I I think the way you articulate things is very easy to understand just that whole ex explanation of Social Security 50 years of unproductive living um 20 half of that being financed via these
(1:06:59) social spending programs it when you lay it out like that it I hope it would be obvious that anybody with more than two brain cells that it sort of adds up the math simply doesn't work i' agree think I'm not I I have empathy and for for a lot of people in these situations but you at some point you have to recognize this this is completely unsustainable and it's going to collapse unless you have a restructuring and a lot of people want to have that conversation but it's have it or have it forced on you by being surprised One Day
(1:07:34) by waking up and just not getting your check yeah I I think that's Marty that's the key point right we can either have this conversation now or you can be surprised tomorrow and at some level I think Americans intuitively understand you're like you're very kind to say you know that I gave a really clear explanation and thank you for that it is something that we strive for like how do we take complicated ideas and present them so they're understandable by people who don't have a finance background who aren't reading 30 page government
(1:08:06) economic reports right and and that's really important and thank you for that I would also just add that on some level Americans understand that right and so like if you I'm sure you've seen the the polls before uh young people are more convinced that you know there are UFOs and aliens flying around the planet right now um than they are that Social Security will exist right I mean there there right now there are more people who believe in astrology than who believe in Social Security on some level people do understand that this is not a
(1:08:40) sustainable issue that that changes need to be made because if you're at the point where you know I'm a Capricorn or I think there are UFOs is more meaningful in your life then you know your retirement plan then people are understanding it on some visceral level yeah and not only coming to coming to an understanding that this is unsustainable but too like have the conversation as quickly as possible because I think it's imperative particularly for young people to keep as much money as possible so that they can
(1:09:15) then go out and be productive in the economy hopefully create businesses create value to help Kickstart a recovery from this mass aeria that we've been living under for the better part of a century with the government programs like I think it's just as important to have the conversation with the younger people about getting the money back in their pockets so they can go be productive as it is having the conversation with those in retirement about the reality of the situation you know Marty in so many cases especially when they're young
(1:09:49) people imagine going to them and saying hey everyone just so you know these social safety net programs that we've told you about they're all bankrupt you can't count on them but before you panic before you get upset here's here's what to do like you're early in your careers you have decades to save and invest and so every month take $100 and put it in you know an equity index a mutual fund Bitcoin and you know they might say well I'm just starting out rent is expens okay do $50 a month you know well I you know I dinner out
(1:10:27) with my friends okay do $25 a month just do something get in the habit of putting aside a certain amount of money every month and you know I saw something great on on X the other day it was something like uh you know poor people spend and then invest what's left wealthy people invest and then spend what's left you know and it's it's easy listen it's easier for wealthy people to say okay well I'm going to put money aside right for them it's not $25 or $50 but the point of the post was it's a way of thinking about things right is your
(1:11:06) first priority to spend and then see if you have something left or is your first priority to put something aside and then live off of what's left and you know like if if they can't do $1,000 a month or $100 a month or to do $25 a month $25 a month buy buy a few sets right yeah just a little bit at a time and you build it and you know at some point they will get that first raise that first promotion well so take 50% of your raise and spend it and enjoy it and take 50% of your raise and invest that and do that every month and just dollar cost
(1:11:45) average your way into Building Wealth over a long period of time get rich slowly it'll work and for any young listeners out there I know our demo Trends a little bit older even older than me but there are some gen zers out there that's how I started $25 a month and not only and you mentioned it earlier Gary like Bitcoin really changes your time preference and gets you to think long term so you start out doing $25 a paycheck whatever it may be you get a raise you do a little bit more you sit in Bitcoin long enough you see its price
(1:12:18) appreciation it's increas in purchasing power and then you have some sort of Mind mindset shift in your mind where you're like okay I'm going to figure out how to get more of this and spend Le and you find yourself spending less and prioritizing saving for the future so just it not even uh the point of starting with $25 a paycheck is not even to build the savings I think it's equally as important to do that so that you realize what it feels like for particularly when you're doing it with Bitcoin to to recognize an incredible
(1:12:54) growth in the in the purchasing power of what you're investing in and then that does something psychologically that incentivizes you to to save more you know Marty I'm so glad you you framed it that way I've got a personal story to share with you I'm sure you've seen it the the meme that was has been all over X um where you know like it's it's a picture of a bit or a drawing of a Bitcoin Maxi at home it's basically like a guy sitting either on the floor or one chair right and like there might be a TV you know it's like everything's gone
(1:13:28) into Bitcoin right yeah and and the point is I'm a Bitcoin Maxi and who really needs all these material things right and so you know I like I live in Westport Connecticut the homes here are beautiful it's it's nice where I live but uh a couple years ago I went surfing in rural Nicaragua and I I mean I was in Madera it's the middle of nowhere um the beach is beautiful and the waves were great and I was sing at this place that like used to be a really nice resort and I'd seen the pictures and it looked terrific
(1:14:04) and I was staying there for 3 weeks and I walked in and my room was very very Spartan we're talking about cement floor brick walls uh like a light bulb hanging from the ceiling there is a wooden desk and a very severe 90° wooden chair there and my first thought was you know I was disappointed for about 10 seconds and I thought this looks like the kind of room they would give a monk in the 1500s right like that this is this is where I'm going to be for weeks and I was I was disappointed for about 10 seconds then I thought to myself wait a
(1:14:42) minute this is fantastic I'm going to be like a monk from from the 1500s right and I and right then I said okay so here's what I'm going to do for the next 3 weeks I'm going to go to bed early wake up early I'm going to read write work exercise and sleep I'm going to journal meditate right I made my life very small and I lived happily there for a few weeks and I would wake up at 4:30 in the morning I would work till the market closed at 2: I would go surfing till 4:00 I would shower I'd walk a mile to go get dinner you know on these dirt
(1:15:26) roads I'd work through dinner and I would come back and I would be in bed you know i' i' I'd meditate I would Journal I'd write um maybe do a little more work I'd be in bed by 8:00 asleep by 8:30 do it all again and it was a just a very small spart in life but I was happy and it's just a reminder we don't need that much you really don't car I think that's a perfect place to end this I don't think I can do that thank you so much for coming on thanks for having me peace and love freaks
