Jim Crider outlines effective strategies for introducing Bitcoin to skeptical audiences, focusing on patience, empathy, and connecting Bitcoin's benefits to real-world financial concerns like inflation and security.
Jim Crider explores how to effectively introduce Bitcoin to skeptical audiences, particularly during family gatherings, by focusing on patience, empathy, and relatable education. He emphasizes starting with foundational questions like "What is money?" and explaining the flaws of fiat currency and the history of money, avoiding technical jargon in favor of relatable concepts like inflation and purchasing power. Crider advocates for fostering curiosity and addressing fears or misconceptions, highlighting Bitcoin as a practical solution to financial insecurity and systemic issues like wealth inequality, ultimately empowering individuals and families to secure their financial futures.
Jim Crider’s approach to Bitcoin advocacy blends psychology and economics, emphasizing patience, empathy, and education to bridge skepticism and curiosity. By grounding discussions in shared values and explaining the basics of money and its flaws, he connects Bitcoin to real-world concerns like inflation and financial resilience. As Bitcoin moves closer to mainstream adoption, his strategies offer a practical guide for meaningful and constructive conversations about its transformative potential.
0:00 - Intro
1:09 - How to craft the perfect orange pill
10:52 - Keeping hype low
14:26 - Bitkey & Coinkite
16:25 - Establishing an understanding of money
28:36 - Dangers of social proof
39:05 - SOTE
39:38 - Attitudes toward risk
43:40 - What it’s like as a fin advisor
56:18 - Frankenstein portfolio
1:01:10 - Providing true value as an advisor
1:09:37 - Bitcoin siphoning value from other assets
1:14:38 - High level game theory & Trump’s buddies
1:17:55 - Unfortunate for those who end up too late
1:28:47 - Orange pill quick guide and plugs
(00:00) if Bitcoin does what we think it'll do it literally has to do that to the detriment of other assets I think will probably be the first asset to really have this demonetization sucked out of to move to bitcoin I've managed to convince 100 families to adopt Bitcoin I talk to financial advisers all the time most of them think I'm an idiot today Jim krider reveals the hidden tax of Bitcoin asset value destruction he believes we are on the edge of entering the suddenly phase and explains why nation states will start flooding to
(00:26) build reserves that Vivic knows a little bit about it JD Vance understands it we have sold some of that 200,000 Bitcoin so we have to go buy some now that is much more of a signal move Jim and I also discuss another large group of Institutions that are on their way to stacking you're going to see a wave of people start adopting Bitcoin when they can actually get paid a commission off of it the first people to adopt it will be old school like wirehouse broker dealer types who are selling it as a product not selling it as advice the
(00:55) last people to adopt it will be I think there's a decent chance we are about to enter like the suddenly phase we're on the right on the threshold yeah we're looking over the cliff right now like are we going to jump trying to step up our game here gym Creator we got a bull market on the way and it's we got to step up the production so that people can get high quality High defin Bitcoin education you know yeah I'm just disappointed you'll have chairs here that we're sitting on well these are these are pre 1971 chairs
(01:26) I bought I bought them at uh Roundtop the antique Fair there 3 years ago and I made sure I found antique chairs that were made before we ripped ourselves off the gold standard okay they're quite comfy they are Lindy very Lindy the chairs are older than my parents or yeah they're like 60 years old now 63 years old 1961 yeah you were just telling me you have a a perfect hit rate in terms of convincing people to buy Bitcoin yeah um yes somehow I uh I would say I I'm I have the advantage of having a captive audience most the time the hard people
(02:10) are you know like the people you already know um you know usually like siblings or old childhood friends things like that can be the toughest because you know like they perceive you like if you have a a good friend from when you're a kid they perceive you as like or at least for me personally it's like that's Jim the the goofy 12-year-old who would come over and all of our candy or whatever you know so they don't perceive me as actually knowing anything um so those are the toughest but uh you know for a living people pay me to like tell
(02:40) them what to do with their money so um you know they have some weight of trust know what I do for like our financial planning clients like I've gotten some some hate over the years for not like on my website not talking about Bitcoin and stuff um um I do that on purpose like most if your if your parents or grand parents like were looking for a financial planner or let's say you were a normal person and they were looking for a financial planner um they were they would go out and like if they saw Bitcoin on the website there there's no
(03:09) way they're going to hire them so I don't want to scare off like these people's parents are grandparents I want to be I want to captive Captivate them uh and then I don't talk about Bitcoin until they've become a client I've shown I've proven that I'm not a through like tax planning and stuff and then finally once I've demonstrated that maybe you should believe what I'm saying then I'll bring in Bitcoin um and there's an element of trust that you have to you have to really go in deep education the problem the the education
(03:37) P piece is interesting you have to speak to what they're where they're coming from on their level um and what they're interested in so like I don't talk about running a node or hash rate or things like that um we talk to like what's money the history of money and most people find that really fascinating like wow I never knew that it's amazing how many people think that we're still on a gold standard oh it's insane like you literally oh what's backing the dollar like gold mhm let's take a step back though like I was telling you this
(04:06) episode's probably going to drop either Monday or Wednesday of next week so right before Thanksgiving right before we hit record we're looking at the charts it looks like we may hit a new all-time high today and so I think having you in the room and all of your experience convincing people to buy Bitcoin and helping people understand why they should have some exposure to it we have a good opportunity here for anybody who's currently traveling whether you're on a flight you're on a plane a train an automobile on your way home mentally
(04:37) preparing for the Bitcoin presentation or the conversation that is inevitably going to happen if one of your family members knows that you're into the Bitcoin uh on Thursday of this week how should how how do you think they should approach the conversation and I think you just touched on a very important thing which is meet people where they are and how they're going to be most receptive to bit Bitcoin yeah there's there's that natural tendency to want to be like I told you so um which there are there are some people who
(05:10) that's the best approach it's like dude I told you and you should still buy some um I would say it's probably not despite what our ego wants to do that most of the time that's probably the the the Lesser tactic we should take and the the other tactic we should take is more of like subtle humility um yeah ring like I don't know like there's a book called Never split the difference by Chris Voss he was like the top FBI negotiator um and one of the tax he tactics he talks about to help people sort of come to your side of the
(05:46) table is to First allow them to a their grievances or at least just their understanding so that's really important I think with Bitcoin it's like what do you think about it like what have you heard about it what do you know about it because you could have the best you know oh it's backed by this and all these things you'd have you have the best arguments in the world oh the us is going to adopt it as a treasury and all these things but you could be saying those things but if all they're telling themselves in their head is yeah but
(06:10) it's used by drug lords or you know it's going to boil the oceans they're not going to hear anything you say they're going to wait for you to shut up long enough so they can come in and say that what they think is a trump card you know like if you're playing if you're playing poker and you're sitting on a full house you're probably not even watching the flop for the rest of the game because you're just waiting until you lay down your hand um and that's what happens if they think that they have a full house with their gotcha they don't hear what
(06:33) you say so you have to allow them well what do you think about this what do you know about it what have you heard let them get off their chest that way they can actually engage in a dialogue versus being checked out that's Paramount make them flip the cards first yeah like when do you know about it they they're going to want to say it like oh it's this like okay yeah I've heard these things too um and maybe again turns depends on personality maybe you go after that thing initially like you know oh boil oceans like oh yeah that's that was a
(07:02) big conversation point back in 2017 and you know they're saying by this point in 2020 it would take up all the energy in the world like clearly that hasn't happened so maybe there's a narrative that informed why they would say these things maybe you should bring that up right then or maybe you should say hey if you really want to talk about this I will make sure we address that point but we're going to have to build up to that point and there's again you have to you know you it's your family you're meeting with uh for Thanksgiving or close
(07:26) friends so you know personalities but most people don't be lectured and told be told like I told you so have fun staying poor let's not drop any H have fun staying pores this Thanksgiving okay I know I know you guys want to let's just keep it keep that one in the cage there's a there's a very limit of people who who really they they enjoy that banter so you know who those people are you can those type of people it's good for them they need to be shaken up um but for the most part you know uh they need they need to be grabbed by the hand
(07:57) taken in it's gonna be okay here's here's what's happening so yeah and most people don't want to sit down and have a lecture at like again like hash RIT or something for like 40 minutes like they're you know hey let me eat my turkey and some pie um so again trying to appeal to what they're going to find important which I guess frankly they're going to look at number go up and say that that's the most important thing which I mean that's probably why 99.
(08:23) 9% of us bought Bitcoin initially is because the number go up um so you have to speak to that to some capacity but again if you only speak number go up the problem with that is if number goes down uh they're going to come to you and say I knew I knew I shouldn't have bought it so you have to Anchor in into why does number go up over a long Trend and that that requires anchoring into um like a deeper narrative and again that's how I approach it it has to be informed by like what is money what's stores of value not just over the last few years
(08:54) most people think that what money is is what they see today versus what historical money has been um yeah it takes a deeper understanding and once once they once you can step people into identifying these things they start realizing the US dollar is total trash like they'll come to these natural conclusions on their own it's like we understand this not because we're like outrageously smart just because like yeah I've seen a little bit more than I think maybe you have the moment you see it you can't unsee it that's that's the
(09:19) truest part about Bitcoin is like once you see not only how Bitcoin works and the value prop it provides but alternatively the dollar system the Fiat system and how systemically broken it is and the incentives of that system it's like oh you can't unsee that and everybody's feeling inflation yeah I mean many people are arguing that is the main reason why Donald Trump just won I don't know if you call it re-election but he's going to be our president again um maybe his re-election but inflation so that that's obviously going to be top
(09:52) of mine uh for people this Thanksgiving as well yeah I was I was talking to someone yesterday um oh they were talking about investment approach and normal money stuff and uh like I don't I don't I don't think our money's really that broken is it and I just brought up how whatever 40% of our money in circulation has been printed in the last couple of years and like just that one little thing you know it's it's a matter of like helping people get off balance they think that what's happening right now is status quo
(10:23) and that's how always things have always been um and you can just sort of nudge them where they realize Maybe my feet aren't as steady as I thought um that's that's step one and again that's that's easier to do like if they uh if you come at them abrasively and you knock them off balance they might grab you out of frustration but if you nudge them out a place of compassion they might grab your shoulder out of like leaning on you and there's that it can feel sort of the same but I think most of us know when we're doing which way we're taking it
(10:53) yeah I I mean I've certainly honed my pitch over the years you talked to Marty at Thanksgiving and 2013 2014 he was like you got to get in now everything's Burning uh if you don't get in like you're going to miss out and never effective these days the that's true it's true like well that's was going to it's going to lead to a question like how much how much of instilling fear is a the word I'm looking for how effective is that um in in getting people to act H that's a really good question um this might be just
(11:36) personal personality um the fear itself cannot be driven out of hype but rather out of like education and conviction like I personally I hate anything hypey that's why I don't like big conferences or like social mixers where everyone's like you know whatever you're getting pumped up on things because that's purely emotional based like if you you know like if you went to night club where it's like that is pure hype everything's there built up around this thing if you were to flip this the lights on um in that situation like the
(12:08) environment would die itself because the whole environment is not built off of like depth and relationship and healthy Community it's based off of like dim lighting and loud music and the moment that's Stripped Away like eh you realize it's really shallow um and I think that's how a lot of times we can we can try to approach uh this fear-based tactic can be um it can be yeah have fun staying poor we're all going to you know the ships are the ships are burning all these bad things which can be true but um Once you
(12:39) turn the lights out it's not as clear to people yeah like wait hold on hold on yeah the the price the price dropped what do you mean you know like I I thought this was going to go up only because you know I thought I thought we were going to enter hyperinflation the next two years what happened you know oh I thought the having period you know it's like here comes the having this is your last chance having takes place six minutes later it hadn't really moved that much you know I hear that all the time I thought I thought this whole
(13:00) whole thing was supposed to be the big move it's like no like you so if you if you anchor into purely fear without allowing that to be informed Again by something deeper I feel like a sort of a broken record but it has to be it has to be anchored in something more than just like purely emotion emotion being excitement out of hype uh fear-based um yeah I guess those are two things like excitement or greed or fear and either of those can be good sticks and car cars um but neither of those are going to bring it's you're always going
(13:33) to have a stick or a carrot versus putting inside of someone like once you own Bitcoin like I I relish opportunity you know part of me sort of wanted Comm comma to win just so Bitcoin I I personally thought that if if KLA won I I would think that Bitcoin would sort of go dormant for a few years based off of attacks not just specifically on bitcoin but over like privacy in general I was like all right that's a silver lining if she would have won I was like cool I'll buy I'll buy some cheap Bitcoin for several years I have that of like sweet
(14:01) I'll scoop it up for several years because I have that deep internal conviction but if it was carrots and sticks only I probably wouldn't have that like cool I'll get to buy on the cheap you know if you want to buy the dip it's because you have that intrinsic motivation versus fear-based that's why you see people you know the having cycle you know people get wiped out at the bottom because their carrot they feel like their carrot just got snatched away versus having that deep internal understanding of what this thing is so
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(16:22) com use the code tftc we have a code now tftc for 5% off at checkout no I I really want to dig into meet people where they are and what I found to be most effective in recent years is asking the qu I think it's really important if the Bitcoin conversation comes up and particularly if you don't force the conversation and somebody asks you you start it's like all right how would you describe Bitcoin or how do you how do you view Bitcoin let's start there I think that's like the most important opening for these conversations of the Thanksgiving table
(16:55) it's all right what do you understand Bitcoin how do you think Bitcoin Works what do you think it is and then go from there yeah that does two things one it again it sort of it disarms people from that that that narrative they have built up and to it helps you maybe they are super smart know about this you're not speaking way below them but most likely they don't understand much at all so you're not going to speak way above them it's a I was hanging out with some people a few months back uh little gathering that I host and there were a
(17:23) few ladies in there who said hey I just want a Bitcoin 101 so everyone came around we were having a Bitcoin 101 and uh uh like 40 minutes later Preston Preston's talking about supercomputers and like Ai and I could tell like these people who wanted 101 Their Eyes Were glazed over it pretty funny um and I think that's what we tend to do is we want to we want to not that Preston was doing this but personally like you want to you want to demonstrate your depth of knowledge and show how robust this field is versus just meeting at the simple
(17:53) place of what they have questions about they can build on that like day one for Bitcoin for me was not hash rate all these things like I was amazed by uh the difficulty adjustment things like that but I didn't need I didn't need to understand it I just I got there after a bit and understood like okay this thing is really cool I'll learn about how this works later on um but those were built on layers of like for me personally how I really started to understand Bitcoin was was March of 20 right before the covid shutdowns
(18:21) there was talks about it and I I'd been dabbling in Bitcoin since 15 but didn't understand it it was more of like this investment it goes up I buy some whatever you know but yeah March of 20 talks of the government shutting things down but oh it's okay they'll probably give us money anyways to keep things going along I realized like that's not how money works so my my basis of learning about Bitcoin was okay our money clearly is broken if we if they can just arbitrarily create it and give it out so what in lie of that is
(18:53) the best form of money and I I thought I need to look at real estate gold Bitcoin those would be the best forms of like long-term stores of value I would just go on walks every day for several hours you know at that point everything was closed so I would just go on walks and learn about Bitcoin and and all these things so yeah my my foundational approach was like what is money and again that's where someone asked me like Jim what's what's Bitcoin I think the the best question is Bitcoin is money um it's um again some people some people have
(19:22) other things that resonate with them more like oh Bitcoin is more of like the the Sailor type things of super computer blah blah blah it's like but like you know your aunt at the dinner table next or this week is is not going to want to hear like it's a group of you know cyber horn that's protecting this thing it's going to be like it's money it's a better form of money and here's why yeah and I actually had this conversation last night my wife's Aunt it's really my wife's aunt's sister-in-law but she's essentially part
(19:54) of the family she's in Austin we get drinks with her and her boyfriend and this question came up and they had a friend with them and she asked what what is bitcoin and going back to like answer like it's money better money and then there's many ways to describe it and I I T bounce ideas off each other here for to to send people away to their dinner with with some Frameworks but I think it was effective last night like I I approached it from the control of the monetary system first before even diving into 21 million divisibility Sal ility
(20:29) all that stuff is like it's just better money that can't be controlled by Central authorities um we live in a world which governments and central banks have very strict control over the money and they can decide on a whim what to do whether lower interest rates increase interest rates expand contract the monetary policy um monetary base excuse me bitcoin's different in that there is no individual business Central Bank government that can decide to change the money and then you go from there like oh so it's like you have this
(21:04) hyper controlled system that very few people can change in this um somewhat anarchic system that that cannot be changed trivially if at all and then you dive into the properties as of money like by the way there's only 21 million Bitcoin and um that is going to uh essentially win out the the monetary competition in the long run because people will Vibe for the scarcer monetary asset yeah um bad bad approach terrible no no I think that's great um the the overarching theme of if someone can control and manipulate it that
(21:46) impacts uh inflation and introduc the introduction of new units so yeah I think that is the most important thing it is something that cannot be controlled by an individual a group of people a government a corporation um and and one of the most important factors of that is as a fix Supply that can't again be be created by by an institution um that is foundationally why Bitcoin is important um and I think it it helps again to look at this from a historical ends because it might say yeah that's not really a risk but if you help them
(22:15) understand like the the manipulation through governments people corporations over time like talking about you know I mean all these Classics we all know from Reading Bitcoin standard and everything it's like all right glass beads you know I think people people realize the FR ation with the hijacking of money when you actually tell real stories like yeah yeah glass beads like there's a reason that so many like groups in Africa were impoverish is because their money was hijacked by foreigners that had an easier way of you know creating money
(22:43) same thing with you know talking about the r Stones it's like yeah this dude came in O'Keefe came in from was it SC Ireland yeah he he sailed in realized that their money really wasn't that hard and yeah you can create more units um they start realizing like okay yeah this this is starting to this sounds sort of familiar then you talk about you know Rome like yeah individuals you know I'm sitting there I don't know how many uh if I was a uh maybe I made swords or something I don't know how many swords a day I'd need to sell so i' I figured I'd
(23:10) probably sit around my booth a good amount of time throughout the day so I just start whittling down some uh some coinage so I'm sure individuals were were uh creating inflation on their own by whittling down and then uh uh making some uh some daer on their own and the government confiscating and and and selling so it's like okay yeah that that makes sense but not that's not modern then you introduce them to like well heck look at you move into the the the 20th century and go to Germany post World War I move into man take talk
(23:38) about uh uh the confiscation of gold like that blows people's minds that actually happened like that's less than 100 years ago and just yeah this happened by force and immediately after the value of gold was repriced gold didn't suddenly become more valuable your dollar became much more uh less less valuable and uh if it's these wakeup calls it's like okay it's starting to hit closer and closer to home and you're you're hitting it from different points different types of uh people groups individuals Nations all this
(24:10) intervention you're seeing a theme here and then you go into yeah Breton Woods this Gathering of people who are you know get together and uh think of a way to centralize control further and then 1971 and then by the time you hit that it's like wow this really is bad yeah this is starting to sound like Rome like this is starting to sound like these other things I can see it now and then I what I do personally is I don't uh from there we might take a talk about like Petro dollar system uh I typically don't go there uh but we'll leave off
(24:44) like really at 1971 and then I'll fast forward to um like cryptography and internet money to address the fact that like this is not something that like some bro started creating in 2014 so he could buy a Lamborghini I think that's a lot of people have in their head is like ah some young money that young kids use they can hype it up and make a lot of money so you have to address like no this is something that uh was even being thought about since the 70s like the dawn of really the internet is exchanging value online and then 80s was
(25:17) being sort of worked on the 90s was really this rise of insanely smart people really trying to think through this but they kept coming across two problems and I just explained like real quickly like the two problems was digital scarcity and this like uh uh this Ledger system that can't be manipulated by a single person and no one could fix it like no one could solve these problems because it's really tough and then out of nowhere this person came in 2008 and wrote this paper and they they solved it and they they showed
(25:40) their work and they cited their sources so you're starting to build up on like it's a credible thing that's been trying to be solved for for decades um rather than there's this if if if Bitcoin is presented as just hey it'll help you make a lot of money it seems like an arbitr you're competing against every other stock or cryptocurrency or whatever um and if you don't present it as a solution to something that they are aware of they think that you're trying to create a solution that is to a non-issue so you have to show that there's an issue here
(26:13) and you have to distill what that issue is and if the issue is broken money they'll recognize you need fixed money if the problem is if the thing if the solution you're trying to create is how to make more Fiat they might go look at ethereum or whatever else because they hav't properly identified the need so you have to get to that and that's why like deep education on like history of money that's like oh crud our money truly is broken Bitcoin is money the rest of those things don't really matter um so it takes a little bit of time but like I
(26:47) I love like I didn't have any clients who sold Bitcoin like clients who roded up to 69,000 wrote it down to 16,000 zero clients sold I had several clients reaching out like hey when are we buying more um and we had a lot of clients scoop up a bunch of Bitcoin like Hey we're going to stop contributing to 401ks and all those things so we can just load up on bitcoin at 16,000 um the only way I can do that for the amount of people I manage money with is to Anchor an education because you know how many people get wiped out every
(27:17) four years do they ride it up high and then like you know I saw this in the 17 cycle when it hit like 18 or so and it dropped all the way back down like I remember talking to people who were like old families who are mortgaging their houses and stuff at like 167,000 Bitcoin and most likely the majority of those people sold at five six whatever thousand um had they not done that they'd be way ahead now that again they were probably anchored into either short-term fear or short-term like hype greed versus long-term thesis of money
(27:55) systems broken I even you relate like was it I think it was Charlie Munger a few years back admitted that he do think the US dollar will be the like primary uh uh like Global Reserve asset by the end of the century he he didn't State what his opinion of it was he's pretty sympathetic to China or he was pretty Sy China so maybe that but even people realizing like okay it's not just like in their head what they picture a crypt bro being it's this whole thematic something's wrong this does seem like the best solution that I've ever heard
(28:31) so I should probably own some just in case it catches on yeah and I mean obviously Charlie Munger was never a Bitcoin Advocate him and um how am I forgetting his name War Buffett um believe that it was rat poison but squared squared and this but this does get to another Point Human Social beings uh many of which succumb to herd mentality like now moving being passed like what is bitcoin why does it exist how does it work now going deeper into the sales pitch does the social signaling that we're seeing from the
(29:09) black rocks of the world fidelities and now Nation States play into your pitch at all is um I don't start there um I don't even get there in the middle that's like end because that that that is the that's the uh in game from a like Game Theory perspective so if I lead off with institutions are adopting or something like that if if let's say Bitcoin drops I don't know what it's going to go up to let's say it goes up to 200 drops to 70 and then Black Rock says hey you know what we're going to get out for right now if you're anchored into black rock
(29:50) owns it and then Black Rock sells you're going to sell too if you're anchored into this is better money that's not going to change so we have to start with that and anchor deeply into that and then allowing once you understand those things then we start introducing the whole like the whole game theory side of things that's where things really start blowing your mind is like it has all these principles I think a fun way of putting it is like dude if I wrote If I wrote a Blog about like baking and I had 20 people like moms at home that read my
(30:21) blog and I would send it out too and I just issued this blog out and then I disappeared and then 15 years later like nation states and Fortune 500 companies all these people are talking about that blog and I it's not even a company like it doesn't exist like that's amazing and the fact that Bitcoin has done that like Satoshi to these like internet nerds rent sent out this blog and then disappeared off the scene there's no marketing team or anything like that it's just like a bunch of outrageously smart people who captured
(30:49) an idea and started like running with it um on their own like people start realizing like wow there's there's legs to this and it's not being hyped up off of anything like this is really running on its own um yeah so you anchoring into that side of things of what it is and the solution it's set out to be um and then yeah talking through the game theory side of things though of yeah I think our that that it starts tying into our current broken money system and like you tie it back into like hyperinflation and yeah
(31:23) like wealth always gravitates to the hardest form of money um then you can start start going into like why not only individuals but also corporations nation states would want to start adopting this and then yeah going deeper into well because that's where people start understanding this I I had a client probably about a week ago called me out of the blue um I introduced them to bitcoin a while ago and they called like man this is awesome like they're just excited then they said Jim I'm sort of worried though like do we sell do we buy
(31:52) like what I you could tell that their their gears were really F finally starting to turn outside of just us talking said well tell me what's happening I said well I've been thinking about this it seems like it's actually a really big deal and if it is that big of a deal this could lead to the collapse of the Federal Reserve then what happens and I was like okay like it was really cool that I didn't have to lead them there and it was funny how they approach it they approach it from this place of uh questioning and quasi fear-based and
(32:22) I approached like that was the goal all along and I told him about satoshi's Genesis plock how he you know put in there the the newspaper article um and I was like yeah that's sort of that's sort of what we're going after here and easing their mind there so then like even them recognizing the instate of a large scale adoption like again if you anchor into the education they'll start putting the pieces together like okay I see it and if other people start understanding what the problem is they're going to rush in and suddenly
(32:51) like everyone's looking for a fire escape and so let's dive into this like path towards adoption in the game Game Theory how do you paint the picture or tell the story of how you view it playing out potentially if at all yeah you get into I I try to I I try to be really measured with my words um and I really tend to try to be conservative with with my language and with my proposition of things so um you know I don't want to rush into like you have to buy now because the US is about to adopt a ton but I do I I
(33:35) talk to people about how um it sort of depends on what's going on so like for instance you know I I I do bring up with with people and I I hosted a little event recently talking about like Bitcoin in the current geopolitical and macro landscape um and talking through like yeah Trump RFK at Bitcoin conference said hey we're going to take this thing as a strategic Reserve literally what like two days later our current uh ad Administration was like all right hey we're going to start selling our Bitcoin that's that has to
(34:04) be out of spite um we've been sitting on that Bitcoin for way too long for it to actually just happen to fall the next business day they decide they're going to start selling so um people start seeing like okay there is there is something like geopolitical happening with this money that some Anonymous person online wrote about and created like that's pretty big why is this happening um so sort of all allowing them to start form ating thoughts on their own um yeah taking it there and then um obviously just getting people intrigued
(34:38) through you if you mention like oh people in you know El Salvador it's a form of money most people sort of like they like that's neat but sort of shrug it off it's not this big thing but I think when you start int you start talking through yeah us possible adoption other countries are mining um corporations are trying to get into it again not allowing that that cannot be I can't underline that enough that cannot be your primary thesis of trying to convince some Bitcoin it's because other people are doing it because the other person stops or moves
(35:08) to something else they will go along with it you know so I mean there's how many people like early adopters into Bitcoin that spoke at these conferences who like went off to do like other altcoins and stuff how how many of them took a tribe of people with them as well um because they were following that person not the movement and I don't want I don't want my family friends clients to follow a person an institution or anything I want them to follow the money um so yeah the game theory is cool I don't I try not to go there too much
(35:45) um from a again I just try to be measured um this is good information there's a ton of people on their way to their to their Thanksgiving destination thinking like I'm going to Uncle Uncle Bob's going to come out like why should I buy Bitcoin I'm going to be like Larry think's buying Bitcoin you're not and you're saying that's a bad approach I don't think it's terrible again if Uncle Bob is like a big like Black Rock apologist that might be the way to get him like in the door but the goal is not to just get him in the door the goal is
(36:20) to get him into to be a bitcoiner you know and bitcoiners don't buy bit Bitcoin because Larry fing bought Bitcoin they buy Bitcoin because Bitcoin better money and if it means just getting them there at first is just like hey larink is like all right maybe I should go buy a little bit I think that's okay you know I've taken Flack like I think it's okay for you know your great aunt Doris it's like hey I maybe I should buy Bitcoin but like she's just not comfortable maybe she lives way off away from you and like you feel like
(36:48) it'd be a really bad idea for her to go and set up an account on an exchange and get a wallet and all these things it's like you know what and that's going to take her five more months it's like hey let's just hop your account at Fidelity we're going to buy the ETF today just to get some exposure I'm okay with that I'd rather Endor own you know peripheral exposure to bitcoin than nothing at all at least to get our feet wet so part of that there is a place of like personality meeting people where they're at and trying to
(37:16) get them in the door and eventually people people start adopting I have clients like that I have clients who at first it's like wow okay I understand what you're saying from the monetary side of things but Jim I'm not quite ready yet to like do all the stuff of like buying Bitcoin self custody all that okay that's fine let's go ahead and buy these other things first and it's it's inevitable that within a couple months they'll reach out and it's like hey I want to buy Bitcoin and I want to what were those wallet things you're
(37:39) talking about because they again it's it's an unpacking of of the implications of what what's really happening and if you can if you can educate them enough they're going to take that on their own and it's going to Peak curiosity and they're going to start learning I have I have lots of clients who have read more Bitcoin books than I have and they're people who are like Diehard Dave Ramsey fans and stuff historically and then I just introduce them to this Give Them Enough where they go off they run with it on their own
(38:06) they come back to me it's like man I just read this new book blah blah blah it's really cool because they have taken this ownership again it's it's you it's it's a love of ownership versus like I always butcher this word obsa or whatever putting your ownership onto someone else if it's Larry Fink or a podcast or whatever those are Dave Ramsey like if people were just uh going along with Dave Ramsey they arguably wouldn't have Bitcoin yet so in the opposite direction like yeah the fact that you're educating your clients and
(38:35) forcing them to get down and understand this from a first principal's perspective helps them avoid the hero worship of a Dave Ramsey like character yeah that's what it comes down to is it's this this the danger of hero worship and maybe your hero in Bitcoin today will become the villain um you never know yeah um so I that's again that's that's the risk um and I don't want to do that uh you've if if that if that's the case you've missed the narrative or you you got off track at some point this rip was also brought
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(39:30) that's drinks.com use the code tftc when you make your purchase and you'll get 15% off I'm telling you get on it freaks you're going to love this stuff in terms of Thanksgiving Day pitch what haven't we touched on that you think it's important man um do you ever throw out price predictions I I am measured with my words again there and I'll uh I'll hedge myself big time it's like all right here's say here's my base case well I always say this I'm probably really wrong because we all are in reality um we're I'm probably wrong I guess someone
(40:06) someone out there is right they don't know they're right uh just statistically someone's got to be right I guess um but I'm probably wrong with what I think and I I'm like here's my base case just based off of how things normally work with Bitcoin and we see these adoptions here's what I think like now that Trump's president or will be president here's what I think is pretty reasonable with him here's my outrageous guess it's probably way off and I'm okay to do that but again I don't want anchor in I be like he buy Bitcoin it's going to half a
(40:32) million in six weeks or whatever you know suddenly they're going to be disappointed if it's not there um so just trying to again it's you're informing of the narrative I love I think it was Pierre who had the chart of like the four-year cycle of like greed anxiety fear disbelief yeah yeah the whole thing I I love that chart um because it really does help shake out why do you have this place of euphoria fear and that's and you have this new base of long-term adopters you can tell who adopted for what reason um and the people who adopted at
(41:09) the end out of greed most of them adopted because thought it was going to go they thought it was going to go higher in a shortterm because you know ultimate Fiat was the grow the was the goal versus uh the long-term narrative what is being built here and you're okay if it drops and if you do again you have this new base of long-term holders so yeah price we all got into Bitcoin because of number go up I mean that's bitcoin's money money's a tool to help you do what's important to in your life um and like I don't forget that I I I
(41:41) will if we hit Bitcoin let's say if Bitcoin hits 300 this cycle I will probably sell a decent amount of Bitcoin and go buy a house in the mountains and you be like Jim that's so stupid if you just wait another cycle you can buy three houses in the mountains whatever it's like yeah but bitcoin's money and having a place for my family to gather and be able to give and be generous for other people to gather as well is really important to me and I want to use my money in that capacity and my kids are young I'm not going to have that much
(42:05) time to be with them and to make memories so I'd rather do that now than wait another foure having cycle that's fine so um anyways I don't know how I got there this just this tying of like you can't leave what is bitcoin Bitcoin is money what is money money is a means of communicating storing and transferring value and like money how you use your money is communicating what you value um you know some people keep their money in US dollars or under their mattress because they really value security their problem is they think security is Cash
(42:41) they don't see that there's risk in everything you do you there's people who are like uh what are they called they're like Shu inss you know uh hypercondriac I guess they're afraid of everything and they think that sitting in their house um away from everything else away from all the elements is the safest thing to do um the problem with that like you're probably going to be vitamin D deficient if you sit in your house all day you're probably going to get obese you're probably going to have really bad mental
(43:03) health so trying to protect yourself some from X risk you're presenting directly presenting other risk to you and a lot of people do that unknowingly with you know they're buying bonds oh it's the you know it's the risk-free asset you know us debt um not understanding that there's risks in that as well so um yeah helping people articulate like well what are what are you risking by doing this or not doing this yeah six directions no no it's important to to Really anchor people to this I think I think people are well equipped
(43:38) now and I and you mentioned a couple different archetypes of your clients like what what have been like the most surprising gross stories or um just stories in general of some of your clients that have gotten into Bitcoin I think the funniest are the hardcore dayve r people like they came to me you know Dave Ramsey to the tea um and again I remember particularly one family I've worked with for several years they were they were with me at another firm I was at they followed me over when I started my own company I
(44:12) could finally actually really you know before I could talk about Bitcoin as friends but not as clients so finally I was like hey guys you should know something about me it's this it's Bitcoin I was like what do you think about it and they were totally caught off guard and um but we talked for a bit and they they're like all right I want to keep learning about this and now like they're convinced that Dave Ramsey if he would actually humble himself and learn about Bitcoin would be a hardcore bit cornner I think those people are the
(44:38) funniest because I agree like they if if every M if every American just followed Dave's basic money principles like spend less than you make save aggressively like things like that the the US would be in a lot healthier space financially um so I I like those people because they have the simple things down I think Bitcoin really is simple so if you can simplify like well save money don't be don't be greedy okay save this money what is money what's a better form of money if you can start connecting these things on
(45:12) a simple basis um they'll start building on each other so I mean the other people are are interesting are like uh Engineers like Engineers are known in in financial planning to be like the worst clients because they ask you think well they ask you about everything which if you're if you're trying to sell cruddy products you don't want Engineers because they're going to you know take it apart and realize that it's a bad product um I like engineer clients because they start asking all the really hard questions about what Bitcoin is and
(45:39) how it works the depth of it they want to really understand it um and those people they they usually are uh they take a while to to get it not because they're slow but because they want to make sure they're not rushing into something you know they're they're auditing before they put put weight on something but once they get it they really latch on I mean you see this in the Bitcoin space a lot of like the bigger people in Bitcoin come from an engineering uh uh background yeah and I mean moving along too like staying on
(46:11) like your client base and your business and what you do like how what I really interested to dive into is how has portfolio construction if at all changed for your client base now that you've introduced Bitcoin and with the next wave of adoption seeming like it's on on the way and Bitcoin I think really elevating itself into a whole another another sphere of um being becoming a geopolitical asset like how do you think it affects portfolio construction moving forward I want to speak to one thing right quick sort of
(46:47) on this um I hear a lot like Oh Black Rock owns it and Fidelity and stuff so it's going to be like it must be a conversation piece amongst financial advisers I talked to financial advisor all the time most of them think I'm an idiot like completely write me off um and they're not talking about Bitcoin if they are actually I I had a reporter reach out to me last week about Bitcoin adoption he was like man you're the first person who would even talk to me everyone else when I tell them he said I'm I'm just writing a piece on are you
(47:15) getting more clients or questions about Bitcoin from clients and he said the moment I say that they just hang up on me and it's like you know why it's because they are but they're so tired of their clients asking about it you ask about it as well there's they're not going to have the ation anymore um so just because we're seeing institutional adoption and even like Financial institutional adoption most financial planners are still stiff arming it you're going to see a wave of money people start adopting Bitcoin when they
(47:43) can actually get paid a commission off of it which is frustrating but hey I'd rather someone own it and that guy got commission than just not own it at all you know it's what's probably going to happen is like these institutions are going to send a group of advisors to like a one or two day training course on like what is bitcoin and how do you sell it they're going to come back and feel all hyped up so they can finally sell this new product and make a bunch of money off of it so then you're going to start seeing a uh an Institutional or a
(48:11) managed money adoption of Bitcoin from that perspective but we're not there yet um do you think we're very close I mean I sent this tweet out yesterday and I think it's true I mean we've been talking a lot about it at 10:31 we have a lot of conversations with potential LPS particularly um people at endowments pensions and that's one thing we caution advis or managers about particularly is like it seems like the career R career risk around Bitcoin could be flipping doing a complete 180 where historically up to
(48:44) this point it's if you're in Bitcoin you're taking a severe career risk because if something happens you're screwed and now with everything that's happening um in the lead up to 2025 it seems like that's flipped so we could people in positions particularly uh Capital allocators fiduciaries wealth managers could find themselves in the position where this time next year they're getting asked questions like why weren we in Bitcoin like why am I paying you do you believe that yes to an extent because I have a lot of those people
(49:15) reaching out to me um really yeah um it's a I think it's a frustration from the client and I would say it's when I say I have a lot in the grand scheme of things it's not that many you know there's that that Meme of the guy who's standing around the perimeter of the room and the other people dancing he's like they have no idea that X that's how you know like most people have no idea that bitcoin's about to hit all-time high no clue they don't know that it's being talked about as being a put on the balance sheet or
(49:44) that that's important most people have no idea and so yes I do have people reaching out and they're starting to come to me like wow this other advisor I've been working for years either he's he's never brought it up to me and when I bring it up it's he it's met with frustration or at best they'll say here fine take 1% of your portfolio and buy it so you'll shut up and stop asking me that's how that's usually met um I think it's gonna the problem is even if you have clients asking about it there's so much Regulatory
(50:13) and compliance corporate bureaucracy that's going to be a hold back as well so like I have I have advisers who reach out to me all the time asking about my business and stuff and I've talked to people work at large institutions who've said Jim I want to talk to my clients about this but I am not allowed to I talked to a guy a few weeks ago and he he was mentioning this and I frankly I just tell to I was like dude is it more basically if he stays at that firm he's goingon to make a whole lot of money I was like d I'm not saying what's right
(50:44) or wrong for you but you need to decide for yourself is it is it better for you to stay here not tell anyone about Bitcoin but you make a lot of money or for you to leave go somewhere so you can actually help people in what you feel is the best way and you're maybe not not going to make as much money personally I would have to do the ladder um I didn't get in this industry so I could make a bunch of money I got this industry so I could help a lot of people um so yeah I think that's that's G be I mean you see
(51:10) that the same thing like large firms I used to get in trouble with a firm I I worked at back in the day because I would talk about tax stuff a lot large institutions won't allow you to talk about taxes when and you're doing financial planning because they have to take these they have to consider like who's the biggest at our entire company and they're not to use our right verbage so therefore we we're not going to let anyone talk about this so I think Bitcoin from that perspective will not be sold not because clients aren't
(51:36) wanting it but because the companies don't understand how you can properly use it the first people to adopt it will be more of like the uh old school like wirehouse broker dealer types like a Morgan Merill Black Rock people like that who are selling it as a product not selling it as advice the last people to adopt it will be I don't know maybe like the Ed Joneses or something like that because they're sort of taking their time on things or unfortunately I think a lot of the people will be like uh really good financial advisers it's like
(52:09) the type of type of financial firm I run it's called an RA or registered investment adviser usually raas are like good cfp CFA CPA type people who really do good money management stuff I think that those people will probably be some of the the last to adopt it and ironically it's not they can like if they're working at a small shop like I'm my compliance adviser you know I can say I want to talk about Bitcoin as long as I feel like it's best for my clients I will um unfortunately I think a lot of these people are so ingrained with being
(52:43) good at talking about money and managing money they're too prideful to ask what is money and these people will probably be the last to adopt it um and I that's why I'm I am seeing people come over to me because they have really good financial planners who hit everything right on everything else but thematically have missed but what is the money and that's where people are starting to come over from from other institutions saying hey I've worked with this guy for several years he's done a good job but it's starting to really get
(53:13) to my get to me that we can't talk about this big thing because it's becoming a bigger and bigger part of what we're doing now you you asked about how we how we manage like how this impacts our portfolios I started my company about four years ago um Bitcoin has always been part of it um so I mean all of our clients have exposure to to Bitcoin in some capacity um it's gobbled up a very large percentage of portfolios for our clients right now if I had to guess uh average client exposure to bitcoin would be probably about
(53:41) 45% holy um about a year and a half ago it was about 20 25% but again is IF function of price yeah function of price and then like I said like back in uh whenever that was end of 22 when Bitcoin bottomed at 16 like we were proactively saying like hey let's stop putting money to these other things and scoop up a lot so when you do that when you tell clients to buy a lot more Bitcoin at 16 um it it will it will become a larger part of your your portfolio now we do um we manage money like I have a portfolio that I run as well that's I call it
(54:19) Frankenstein real odd thing I have clients who own a lot of Bitcoin and um it's like hey Jim I fully believe in Bitcoin I promise I love it I think it's going go up forever but it's like I'm 70 I need something if Bitcoin if Bitcoin doesn't do well in the short term I need something else and these people again on from a uh U big picture they want something that still aligns with their thesis of our money situation so they don't want to own a bunch of like mid or long duration bonds because that flies in the face of their Bitcoin allocation
(54:49) they don't want to just sit on a pile of cash like okay well what do I own to hedge against short-term volatility risk of Bitcoin and we we talk through like what would cause that is a 51% attack that you're talking about because that's a lot different than like a big macro event that takes Bitcoin down shortterm it's like okay it's probably the macro event that's going to cause Bitcoin to blip and if Bitcoin drops for a little bit and I'm retired I can't risk that sequence of return risk when I'm pulling out my portfolio it's like oh well then
(55:14) let's carve off this other thing so we have a portfolio that like sort of is the antithesis of Bitcoin um you know that back in 20 20 and 21 I took a lot of flack from people like I did a weekly Twitter space for a company um where there's like ask an advisor or anything sort of thing and every week you have some knucklehead I it had to be on purpose at some point someone would ask me about having a US dollar emergency fund and I would take so much heat for saying I think you should um people like dude you're such a bear and blah blah
(55:43) blah but I have had a I've had a lot of people come back to me in the last couple of years saying like I own a lot less Bitcoin than I did in 21 because I had to sell at 16 um so like basically all I own I own I own Bitcoin I own my business and that's about it um so I'm not a bear by any means I want to make sure that you're protecting your Bitcoin um and sometimes that means owning a tiny bit less in a different type of asset or there's other things you can do I mean if you have a lot equity in your house set up a HELOC and allow that to
(56:14) offset and it would be like sort of an emergency fund sort of thing so there's things you can do um well let's dive into that Frankenstein portfolio like what what does that look like is it mid to long duration bonds is it short-term bonds is it no uh there's no bonds in there right now so it is our largest current position is Berkshire so I mean frankly like I'm guessing here but like I think if if at this moment if Bitcoin were to go down a lot it'd because of some like crazy macro event that everything's melting down I would
(56:44) speculate that short term burshire would go down a along with everything else you know it's an equity but you know Warren sitting on an absolute Behemoth mountain of cash which you would take advantage of and deploy so I think an event like that would be opportune for um for Brooks wway so that's our largest position and we we get a little bit more Nuance there as well so like we have other like value and deep value funds um right now we own some oil and gas in that uh like our I'm sure you know like our strategic uh petroleum uh
(57:17) yeah our Reserve is just well and the incoming energy secetary is very bullish for oil and gas I'm not sure if you've been following that but just look at our reserves it's like dude that would last us like I don't know what's at today but it wouldn't last us hardly any time at all so um we've got to refill that thing we should have refilled it a few years ago when gas was super cheap uh but we didn't so here we are sitting on just a couple weeks of uh strategic reserves as a nation for our oil and gas so um yeah
(57:42) then everything is talking about like hey if we you know once Trump gets in open up these pipelines whatever like so we own some of that so yeah there's like a lot of value deep value but then some Commodities also like one that like we own like right now I own Spotify in there um a little bit like that's sort of an oddball position but something I felt like would do well we bought that probably about a year year and a half ago and it's done really well um we bought uh we bought gold inside of that thing that did a lot better than I
(58:08) anticipated it really I bought this to be really I told clients like look the goal for this portfolio is to massively underperform Bitcoin I hope that happens but I also want to own it in case something happens with Bitcoin in the short term this is sort of the antithetical thing to it um so yeah and it it allows us to not not have like if you're you know if you're if you're a retiree the classic portfolio is like a 6040 stock Bond um I don't I don't like the 6040 portfolio um so having this having Frankenstein in
(58:38) there allows me to feel a little bit more ease of not having 40% in bonds and cash it is a somewhat Bond substitute by owning all this deep value stuff yeah it's a smart play I mean Burkshire I mean Warren just dumped a lot of his Bank of America stock and it seems like he's building up that it's approaching what it's hundreds of billions of dollars at this point it's giant like unbelievable you should just buy Bitcoin with it um yeah so we yeah it's it's a lot of weird stuff I mean we have right now we have exposure
(59:13) to India I think on a long-term scale internationally I think in India will outperform uh other International develop or developing markets over the next 10 15 years it's a weird portfolio that's why I call it Frankenstein yeah it is certainly a Frankenstein portfolio I mean but back to bitcoin like long-term trends and saying people knocking on your door coming from advisers that won't let them get into Bitcoin like do you think that'll accelerate this cycle and like what is the what is the profile of that is it like you're more is it is
(59:47) it wealthier individuals is that really are looking at their wealth and be like I need this is a massive Golden Goose I need to protect yeah I that's is actually what I'm it's it it's across the board but this time around it's a lot more wealthy people like wealthy older people like I I think and maybe this is a reflection to me I'm 34 I I think the average Bitcoin or this m more at least up until recently was probably like a 37-year-old dude with three kids like something like that um and that's what I've historically seen in times like
(1:00:24) this is people 20 to 34 reach out about hey Bitcoin financial planning stuff like that but what I'm having right now like a lot of people reaching out are in their late 60s to 80s and they own a substantial amount of Bitcoin and their advisor they've been working with for the last 20 years has wants to have nothing to do with it and at first they would put up with it but now it's a place of like dude I'm friends with that guy but he's doing me a disservice with my money I need to have someone else I'm getting that on a very regular basis now
(1:00:56) having that conversation almost daily with yeah really wealthy older people which is pretty cool to see like it's not just this young person you know behind the sky idea like these are really smart people who have been around the block for a while yeah and what do you I really want to dig into this I mean I've had this thesis for a while and you alluded to it the Raa the broader ra particularly like your big box ra shops like all they care about is the fees and does Bitcoin as this better money this better store of value really
(1:01:31) eat into the industry in which you you play in I love that um man so good I wish our money was better it would make so much of my job not necessary like remember a couple years ago was like 21 when that like in New Bron Falls where I live the average house went up went up in value by 30% that's crazy your house my house at that time I have at that point we had three kids like our house went up by 30% in value that did not happen like we had our kids were putting holes in the Sheed rock with their heads and just crazy
(1:02:08) stuff our house was getting trashed the house didn't get better our money got cheaper that's what happened um if so I had clients comeing to me hey Jim I want to buy a house in the next year how do I save for that thing like do I do I put in the S&P and hope the S&P doesn't plummet which ended up happening you know in 22 the S&P went down by like what 23% or something like that do you put in the stock market and hope that that you can keep up with the housing market do you keep it in cash and risk that houses keep going up by
(1:02:37) 30% do you put it in bonds and try to clip some coupons like what do I do with this that's a question I had all the time and that would be a nonissue if our money wasn't just broken like we had people scrambling the houses went up by 30% because of the new money creation the new money creation itself made everything rise uh in in price and plus like when you have the what the the monetization of assets like you weren't a few years ago you want to go buy a house you're not just competing against me and you know
(1:03:09) some other nice young couple you're competing against like Black Rock and private Equity companies and the reason they're doing that is because they know they have to park money in something that can to can keep up at least with inflation and once Bitcoin takes that role at least they recognize it does that's going to leave to an extent is going to re leave real estate and go to bitcoin and that'll be fantastic I hope those parts of my job get taken over I would love that because I want to help simplify and better people's Financial
(1:03:34) lives and a lot of things I have to talk about shouldn't exist so yeah I think that will happen I did I talked to someone uh I talked to someone last yesterday afternoon she um she they're looking for a financial planner they just pay a flat dollar amount too she said I think it's crazy that financial planners will charge a percentage of assets under management and I I do allow for flat fees but I I played sort of Devil's Advocate I said I completely agree so here's what you see in this industry is most good like Raa types say I don't
(1:04:09) bring any value through investment management or maybe the extent of the value I can bring through Investments is behavioral investing and rebalancing and some some tax lost harvesting but that's the value we bring through the Investments really the value that we bring is through tax planning and and Equity compensation planning and business strategy and and tax and estate those are the areas we can bring deep value to but then you have this weird thing of you just said you bring no value through the Investments yet you
(1:04:37) tie your income to 1% of the investment rate and I think public starting to see through that and say like you're going to charge me 20 grand on a whatever $2 million portfolio um when you just said the value bring is not even related to the value of my portfolio but these other things I'm going to pay pay you a flat fee anyways talked to a lady yesterday who said that I was like yeah if if that's the case you should go hire like go hire a robo advisor pay it 20 basis points don't hire an advisor and pay at 150 um but that's where I I did
(1:05:09) meet her and say well like that is the case of if you most advisers are just going to buy the index and call it a day why would you pay someone 150 basis points to do that doesn't make any sense um but I could counter that with like well here's how we manage our money like I can I can fully sleep at night having someone's pay pay 1% on how we manage money like because we beat the crud out of the market or at least we have so anyways I I do hope I hope it makes it where I I think financial advisors will always be
(1:05:39) necessary because there's just decisions like so much my job is emotional like I have clients I have clients who are most of my clients are a lot smarter than me I'm not that smart um so it's not a big hurdle um but I have clients who really understand the money who are super successful with it have great marriages but when you meet the money and the marriage together there's a lot of inks and a lot of my job is to come in help them communicate better and have a plan together and then once you've done that you can actually build better so
(1:06:11) like there's there's a family I'm working with right now they have two financial advisers outside one's a great financial planner one's not um they have about $40 million net worth we were talking they hired me to audit their other Financial ADV and we were talking and after after one conversation the wife said I just don't feel like we have a plan and she wanted her husband to sell most of their Bitcoin they're sitting on a pretty good amount of Bitcoin she said she really wants him to sell it she said I just
(1:06:40) don't feel like we have a plan like that's ironic because you have two financial planners and we came what we realized is they never had someone to step in the middle of their conversations and facilitate healthy vision for them like hey you're saying these things are important to you you're saying these things are important to you you're saying the same things you're just approaching it from different directions and what I was able to do is they could actually articulate that I could actually show there is a plan that
(1:07:05) exists and because of that now the wife feels way more comfortable with the husband buying even more Bitcoin because you could at least articulate what is the vision what we're trying to build so I think there will always be good value for having a financial planner I just hope a lot like the the day-to-day stuff does get removed from from better money yeah no and I wasn't attacking you I think what you do like Boutique like um personal like one to one like you make a personal relationship with your clients
(1:07:34) is very important and will be around for a while I'm talking about like the Amera prizes like all these sort of factory raas that yeah I me what I see a lot like what I tell people all the time is like there's a huge difference between a financial planner and a salesperson who just happens to sell a financial product yeah like I I was with somebody last week who were getting drinks at the Driscoll and they were they were talking about their Fidelity advisor he's like yeah they call me once a quarter and some 24-year-old who is
(1:08:01) just reading from the script of products they've been told to sell like this quarter that's I I I worked maybe there or somewhere like there um I'm get in trouble all the time for like talking about tax stuff or like yeah you're you're limited on there's someone on Twitter the other day who put on like they they were asking about buying Bitcoin they want to help their mom buy Bitcoin at Fidelity but their adviser always tells them no it's like yeah that's because they can only sell these three model portfolios or whatever
(1:08:27) like that's it and uh there's nothing personal about it there's nothing about leaving the script um and uh the moment you introduce a better form of preserving your capital A lot of that script is no longer necessary again I love I love the idea of demonetizing these other assets suddenly you don't have to use the vti as a savings account use Bitcoin as your savings account that's what money is for money is there to preserve your purchasing power um so I I I fully I hope this stuff happens that's something that's really
(1:08:59) interesting to talk through um with going back to the family like you know how much Bitcoin should I own so I wrote a I wrote a paper a while back um I ended up I I did not publish my thoughts on a number because I didn't want to like compliance to get down my back or the SEC or whatever so I didn't publish the number but like dur my research I did like okay if Bitcoin does what I think it'll do well one you all time by hey we did it like a uh are we live right now are people smash buying as we record I'm kidding I want be like Lieutenant Dan
(1:09:31) right now on New Year's Eve um uh oh with with Bitcoin to go if Bitcoin does what we think it'll do it literally has to do that to the detriment of other assets like bitcoin's value in real terms not nominal but in real terms will go up because other assets lose purchasing power in real terms value is sucked in the bit yeah and that value is going to get sucked out of gold real estate stocks bonds money art whatever and I think people start realizing okay the theme here so that's where it really is like I think it's dangerous to not own any
(1:10:08) Bitcoin well why is that because you're the the true value of course the government can make it look like the value is retained by just you know pumping up the numbers there but the purchasing power itself is is being diminished and I think when people start realizing that's like maybe I should on at least a little bit and I I I haven't run the numbers in a while but like that point it was like my my my my my numbers at that point was if you own 4% of your total portfolio in Bitcoin um as the purchasing power gets sucked out of
(1:10:33) other assets and put into a Bitcoin you would stay equivalent in purchasing power long term if you own more than 4% your total purchasing down would rise if you own less than 4% it would go down that was my thought I'm curious to actually one of the numbers now that it's it's gone up significantly since then I'm sure it hasn't changed you know if we're looking grand scheme of thing Bitcoin a zillion dollars um it's probably moved from like four to like 43% of your portfolio or something like that but I think it's really that that
(1:10:57) could be something interesting to bring up to to family you know I wouldn't that wouldn't be my leading conversation point is like hey you know if Bitcoin sucks all the monetary value of all assets in the world you should probably own 4% of your portfolio like that's not a leading thing because they're not going to understand remotely close like again like the game theory of how you arrive at vti and and rental properties going down in value to go to bitcoin like why is that because they don't understand that they're using those
(1:11:21) things as money so you have to go back to what is money so it all goes back to that simple thing like it is first principles what's money Bitcoin bitcoin's better money houses are really bad money but they're being used as money right now because our actual money is broken yeah and I think I mean leaning into houses and particularly rental properties to get that cash flowing income stream I think 20121 really drove a lot of people towards Bitcoin not then but now because you had that crazy expansion of the monetary
(1:11:50) base Zer and then people went and bought a bunch of airbnbs and thought they were going to be able to do the fire lifestyle and retire on the cash flows from their airbnbs the rental properties and that quickly got cut at the knees and I've anecdotally known I know quite a few people that did that and wound up just like eating a loss in the properties and throwing it into Bitcoin they're like CU When you think about it like the the maintenance the the logistical headaches of trying to manage a portfolio of these rental properties
(1:12:21) particularly if you're not a professional and you're just getting into it as a side gig to to fire to to retire early and live off that income uh it it's insane yeah compared to the alternative Bitcoin which is just like at the scarce asset uh very liquid very easy to secure and very likely that more people are going to adopt it I think particularly in the rental housing market people are waking up to that dude my wife and I her name's KRA Kendra and I are renting right now we we I don't know gosh a little over a year ago um like hey what
(1:12:57) if we sold our house we can buy more Bitcoin like all right let's do that um and I love it stuff breaks all the time and like the other day our uh our AC went out last week and the first thing went to mind was like Hey not my AC to fix like um suddenly you're trying to build this portfolio of something that has you you have to think of like uh capex repairs vacancies like and then you don't control all the variables it's like oh yeah the Siders moved in they're wrecking the house I can't yeah there's a yeah uh oh man I'm kidding um yeah I
(1:13:34) mean three four young kids is tough on a on a place that's another nice thing about you know we we've thought about building something like a good forever home it's like I don't think we're there yet as a family um do dry roll affirs all the time on it um no that's uh I think people I agree people start realizing there's an easier way to preserve my money than real estate I think real estate will probably be the first asset to really have this demonetization sucked out of to move to bitcoin personally that's probably I'd
(1:14:03) go first like it would just be a pain then again I'm like I'm g a good Hands-On if we if we measured manl based off of like your ability to fix stuff I'm I'm really doing bad in that area so I would not be a good property manager um I guess you can hire property manager but there goes 10% of your gross revenue again like you're just it's getting taken away left and right I think people starting realiz like crud there's something out there there's got to be something that I can just like I can buy put in this little device or in my you
(1:14:32) know 12 words in my head and then forget about it and I'm not paying for repairs and all that stuff so um I'm curious to see how this plays out you know you asked earlier about the whole game theory the the the the nation state adoption it is interesting like you start looking at um where we are with with like not just Trump but like his cabinet he's lining up like I think Trump's sort of a goober like I don't think he understands Bitcoin that well maybe he does and he just playing his cards close but I think he does have
(1:15:05) people close to him understand it like it seems that Vivic knows a little bit about it that uh JD Vance understands it like he been on this show knows about Bitcoin JD like he had to disclose his his assets when he was what elected as the VP elect um and like you is a pretty good amount of Bitcoin like a decent amount of support of his net worth so I think people understand it so that's that's what's in really curious what uh ah that was a point I wanted to make earlier you asked Game Theory this is the game theory that
(1:15:33) actually excites me is back in July Trump and RFK said hey we want to own $200,000 200,000 Bitcoin as our strategic Reserve what's more than that a million right well back it was at the at the conference it was 200 because that's what we owned yeah that we confiscated through Silk Road and stuff that's what they want to keep like all right we're going to take that we're going to basically if we had done that if if current admin had not sold some what would have happened is theoretically Trump gets in presidency
(1:16:02) he moves our 200,000 Bitcoin and just like relabels it as like instead of like confiscated assets or whatever it's called right now on our balance sheet and we actually give a title of like strategic Reserve that'd be a cool move but what's way neater now is if he's going to be like true to his word let's say it's not even a million he just gets back to the $200,000 200,000 Bitcoin he initially said we have to proactively go buy it so before it was a passive retitling of what the Bitcoin is now we have sold some of that 200,000 Bitcoin
(1:16:32) so we have to go buy some now that is much more of a signal move the US government purposely went and actually bought Bitcoin to build up a reserve so even if it's just the 200,000 that we initially said the signaling there is way higher so what uh what current uh Administration set out to do in order to start selling our Bitcoin I think will actually lend uh lend itself to being way more bullish signal over the long term I think that's really cool even if it's not you know lum's uh million Bitcoin uh proposal even is just 200,000
(1:17:05) yeah I mean and I mean Bitcoin has been talking about this for 15 years like the nation state game theory and I mean it has played out somewhat like has been presented by these conversations over the years which is the smaller more Nimble governments that have much less to lose and much more to gain we'll move first we've seen that with El Salvador Bhutan um obviously Russia uh many people surise has some Bitcoin Venezuela um and that's played out I I'm honestly surprised that strategic Reserve in the United States is part of
(1:17:44) the conversation now I think that throws a wrench in the game theory in how many believed it would play out the acceleration yeah yeah it's one might say gradually than suddenly yeah like we very well maybe we're not again I don't I don't talk about these things with clients and stuff like much unless it's like I can trust that they're not going to tap it as like take it as like speculative hype I don't go there very often because I don't want to build up this like crazy expectation but I think there's a decent
(1:18:11) chance we are about to enter like the suddenly phase like we're on the uh right on the threshold yeah we're looking over the the cliff right now like are we going to jump yeah this really we got our squirrel suit on like let's go I'm I'm really yeah uh all right not Financial advice but what happens if we do take the jump off the cliff oh gosh um that's probably a bad analogy like we're the get in the rocket ship we yeah we H in a rocket ship um man I I will be a little bit sad personally so like where where I'm at right now is
(1:18:48) last few Cycles you know I'm like Lieutenant Dan Bitcoin goes up some and I'm sort of excited on my own but yeah cool I I figured this going to happen and it'll just keep going this time around over the last four years I've managed to convince 100 families to adopt Bitcoin so right now it's like super fun so like I have people reaching out to me all the time like wow Jim like thank you so much this is awesome like changing individuals lives changing changing like Generations which is so rewarding um so I love this and I right
(1:19:20) now frankly I could stop bringing on new clients I would probably be able to trim my work down to like 3 days a week make a good living and be done but I know there's so many bad advisers out there who were telling their clients to like don't buy Bitcoin it's tulips and Beanie Babies they're not doing they're not even doing like good like tax planning and stuff like that let alone talking about Bitcoin and that motivates me it's like I could be done growing but I need to go reach more of those people so the
(1:19:44) reason I'd be sad if Bitcoin this is it and just goes up forever at this point is that gives me less time to reach more of those people and of course like eventually everyone should own Bitcoin because it's just better money like day Bitcoin would be really boring to talk about yeah there like people like well what if Bitcoin stops going up it's like that's the the point of it like the purpose of Bitcoin eventually is just to be super stable one day we one day we'll be there um yeah part of me wants to see that like that'd be cool for me and for
(1:20:10) the clients who already own it it's like dang there's more people out there want to get on these boats you know so that would be the sad part um no I agree that's like one of the most rewarding things at 10:31 is uh we have a lot of large family offices that are backing us and when you've developed these relationships and convinced them that we are good fiduciaries for your money to allocate into the space you learn about how they built their wealth and they're really inspiring stories and by sitting down with them and learning how they
(1:20:40) built their wealth and their life stories like you feel compassionate about like I really feel a duty to make sure that we don't only preserve this wealth but grow it yeah immensely because people work hard for their money and it would be a great shame and it will be a great great shame for the tens of thousands hundreds of thousands millions of people out there who built a solid Nest EG or potentially a great amount of wealth that see it get eaten into because they didn't have the the proper advice from the people are
(1:21:10) supposed to be planning their financial future it will be almost like to an extent like sort of a jubilee though like there's people like I I have friends and family and lots of people who like work really normal jobs who just managed to stack a pretty good amount of Bitcoin and like Bitcoin does what you and I think it will do like they just went from being like the blue collar person who can hopefully retire at 67 to being like hey let's talk about generationally now that's really cool um I just want to again that's what what
(1:21:44) bothers me is the people out there who I want them to be there they're just not there yet that's what the the thing about our current money system that frustrates me the most like every time I think about it like I like start tearing up like 20 was it 21 when the inflation started re like really heating up um you know we think about the impacts of inflation we get frustrated but when food prices started going up a lot out of like out of quote unquote nowhere I was at I was at the grocery store and there's an old lady behind me in line
(1:22:12) and she had to be like your cliche cat lady like I mean she had like hot dogs and cat food that's it and um and one it was in one other item and I checked out and I was bagging my groceries and she starts going and the lady lady she rang up her like three items and the old lady was like she had to verify like that's how much this cost and she had to put one of those things back and like I intervene but like it's like dang that's what drives me nuts about her money like I picture her maybe I'm maybe I'm painting the wrong picture but
(1:22:42) I know there's people like this like old lady husband's di husband died when he was 64 she got his pinion that doesn't have a cola or maybe it's like a 2% cost of living adjustment now she's 84 and she's living off that little tiny pension that just lost 40% of its purchasing power and now she's deciding between does she eat hot dogs for two meals a day does she feed her cats uh or does she get evicted from her house that she and her husband built her family in like that that's where it gets real it's like dude this is I don't care about yes one
(1:23:13) day I would love to have a house of the mountains for my family and I like that'd be so nice like dude our money is broken when you think about those people like it's not about what else can they buy it's like dude this is you're messing with people's lives yeah um I think Walmart's financials dropped this morning and that was the one headline that stuck out to me and people were reporting on it is their their biggest um growth uh demo was individuals and families making more than $100,000 and so like Walmart is becoming this place
(1:23:45) where typically it's what many would deem to be the place where low-income individuals go to shop and do their their bargain shopping and like people that were were not too long ago considered middle maybe even upper middle class in some respects are are being forced to go to the bargain shopping center it's pretty crazy yeah it's you know like a hund $100,000 in what what it used to be you're like oh you know like growing up is like oh one day I'll make six figures you know now like I I talk to people all the time who
(1:24:17) just reach out it's like dude just put hour of my time I'll give you free time just to talk and I hear stories like regularly like I talked to someone just just recently dual- income household travel nurse so they can make a little bit more money that versus being a nurse at home uh they want to buy a house like some are really inexpensive like deep south that's like so they can they want to do that so they can have kids and it's like we want to do that but we can't I want to be a state home mom you know with the
(1:24:41) kids but like we can't afford it it's like that's crazy that it's really tough for families to be able start having kids and have a parent that stays at home despite having like a master's degree in nursing all that stuff like we just made it so difficult that's where you're seeing this sucking out of it's not just money like money helps you do what's important to you like money the reason I got into Finance in the first place money is the number one cause of divorce it's one of the top causes of stress and suicide like what men are
(1:25:12) about 50% of the population but are about 80% of suicide I think that has a lot to do with like men are usually the one who is more responsible for the money in the household like that that strikes a nerve you know it's like dud you want to get kicked off about our our currency like look at the impacts um like you are stealing from people's ability to do the things they value because suddenly you are you're taking that so we can what leave a whole bunch of Choppers in uh in Afghanistan that now they're using As for their
(1:25:44) parades credit like that like they just created that money why do I have to pay the taxes why do you suddenly it's harder for me to buy these things suddenly like everyone feels like they need to go to Walmart and buy less quality Goods like now your kids are eating crud because you can't afford good food organic whatever like or even not organic avocados didn't get 40% nutritious in the last couple of years yeah your your money that's used to buy them just got devalued so like well gosh I can't I guess we can't buy these
(1:26:11) things I guess we can't buy organic beef or whatever like fruit we have to buy these other things you go to the store like it's interesting the people you notice this like I think you'd be blind and not see it like people who are generally or also in a higher socioeconomical demographic you go to the store and you see someone who just looks like they're sort of rough around the edges look in the grocery basket they probably have a lot of really processed junk and of course we could say well eat less but eat less quality
(1:26:40) stuff but like I just don't think that should even have to be a conversation point right um man that that gets me red up like the impacts it actually has on people like the disease that introduces uh the anks and homes parents fighting about money because like well you know I want to I want to make sure we can do these things like but we can't babe I have to keep going I wish you had more time to view this yeah me too but I can't because of this stuff that is a there's a level of theft of time um you know like that's infuriating
(1:27:15) it's infuriating and and it's corrosive to society cuz you mentioned like I want to go buy house in the wood or in the mountains and I'm many bitcoiners are thinking that way myself included like what am I going to do next but I think it's important to Anchor to the fact that we live in a society and yes Bitcoin may go up and you may be able to afford that house by the beach or that house in the mountains but if society devolves around you to a certain extent like and you can't coordinate economic activity and you have essentially this
(1:27:51) drastically more um Divergent two-tiered Society it's not going to be worth yeah um living in to some extent right and so that I mean that's why we have fixed the money fixed the world out here and why I mean obviously like you said all get into Bitcoin for number go up uh at the beginning but I think as you go further down the rabbit hole it's like oh no this is like a a problem that is at the core of society if we don't fix it things can devolve rather quickly yeah it's why we do the show it's why we do what we do try to push us forward and
(1:28:32) I think it's uh it's important that we get as many people on the life boat and I think I agree with you now if we're in the suddenly phase and we accelerate and you have a mass of people that are that are missing out that it would be incredibly sad which is why it is very important that you guys crush your Thanksgiving Day dinner presentations okay hope your PowerPoints ready it is your moral duty yeah yeah it's I guess closing thought there would be again like when you when you go back to the role that money has you know
(1:29:07) there are times that it's tempting be like dude have fun staying poor and there are people who like there there I I have I have I have a few people that I know that's like that's how I have to approach them that's the that is not the norm most people need to be met with like they have there's they have Financial stress and angst they have concerns they have concerns about their current state and they also have concerns about Bitcoin their concerns about Bitcoin is the unknown so go there address that they think they know
(1:29:34) something they think they know that it's used to buy drugs or they think they know that it's going to boil oceans or they think they know that whatever so address that first and then build in proper education don't try to educate them about stuff they don't need to know yet like if you think about your Bitcoin Journey maybe if you're Maybe you're an engineer and your first place of of really getting into this was hash raid and all that stuff but most people aren't like you um so take it from where they are and that is that is a worry
(1:30:06) about you know getting to Thanksgiving was expensive and like that was a big sacrifice why why is that um what what is what is the problem itself and that problem is money the money is been uh it's centralized control which allows for a printing of new units like okay well what's the way around this so um yeah I know it can be tough to uh retain that composure uh but I think if you can just anchor into remembering like dude money money is an expression of values and these people Everyone values things most people value relationships the most so
(1:30:43) if you can go back there um and even if it's in the back of your mind like why are you having this conversation it's because you care about them you want them to able to invest in their relationships with their families and the people they love it's like okay then it's important that I can try to retain my composure so I can help them understand Bitcoin so therefore they can do these things um yeah optimistic too this is a way where you can help yourself you were you worried about the plane ticket the G the tank of gas the
(1:31:12) train ticket you had to take to get the Thanksgiving were you worried about chipping in was your casserole a little bit more expensive cu the money's broken we found a solution to the broken money problem and we can make the world a better place we can make make your life easier easier it's not uh I think reframing to an optimistic like if you adopt Bitcoin things are going to get easier instead of you don't adopt Bitcoin the world's going to you're going to miss out positive connotation is important too as well yeah don't want to yeah
(1:31:42) especially Thanksgiving try to try to try try to show some thanks um so be prepared get the presentation ready uh get your ref links for your exchanges if you got them you know you might as well St a little bit if you're going to onboard people to to stacking apps on Thanksgiving and uh right before dessert between the main course and dessert you have a family smash by you all get together you pull out your phones you smash by a little Bitcoin I'm kidding but uh good luck as you're going to pitch Jim where can people find out more
(1:32:14) about what you're doing reach out to you if they're interested um and leveraging your services if you're if you're offering them yeah um you can follow my my Twitter or at I will finally yield to calling it X after what elon's done over the last few months like fine I'll call it X now so you can follow me on X it's uh Jim crrider TX is in Texas um my my websites it's it's it's intentional living FP as in financial planning so intentional living it's like dude I have this I have this family member that I cannot get through
(1:32:57) but if they hurt for someone else like awesome like schedule time more than happy to talk help in any way I possibly can Jim it's been incredible I I I flung this topic on you you crushed it no I appreciate you having me peace and love freaks
