podcasts
Kevin Dolan explores how the fiat economy has undermined family structures, driving declining marriage rates and societal fragmentation.
Kevin Dolan and the host explore how the fiat economy has eroded family structures, driving declining marriage rates, lower birth rates, and societal fragmentation. They discuss how inflation and economic pressures have made dual-income households a necessity, discouraging marriage and child-rearing while increasing social isolation and weakening support systems. The conversation highlights Bitcoin as a potential fix, offering financial stability and reducing reliance on centralized institutions that manipulate economic policies. Beyond economics, they examine the broader collapse of civilization, from plummeting birth rates to the failure of immigration as a long-term solution and the broken dating market. Dolan argues that only a return to traditional values, cultural revival, and community-building can restore strong family units and long-term societal stability.
Kevin Dolan’s discussion highlights how economic instability and cultural shifts are eroding family, marriage, and long-term societal stability, but also presents pathways for revival. While declining birth rates and weakening traditional values pose serious threats, solutions like Bitcoin, intentional community-building, and a renewed focus on family offer hope. Societies that fail to prioritize strong families will decline, but those who recognize the problem and act can build something lasting. Dolan’s upcoming natalism conference in Austin will further explore these themes and potential solutions.
0:00 - Intro
0:51 - Kevin's orange pilling
4:43 - Natalism & strong families
13:10 - Fold & Bitkey
14:53 - Factors that have weakened families
22:38 - East Asia
29:54 - Immigrating human labor units
36:11 - Unchained Announcement
36:50 - The strength of marriages
56:18 - White pills - Bitcoin fixes this
1:12:50 - Exiting is the only victory condition
1:15:37 - Soft landing
1:18:39 - Natalism can unite tribes
1:23:13 - USAID & Kevin's doxxing
1:31:33 - Family businesses
(00:00) it's getting harder for people to raise families as this problem of raising families gets worse dual income families are the norm all the houses are priced with that expectation all the jobs the wages are calculated with that expectation what you're going to see is rich countries getting old and like they have to do something like Japan I mean it's been 30 years and there's been essentially no economic growth in Japan for every 100 Koreans there will be four great-grandchildren I mean that's essentially that's game over that
(00:29) culture will no longer be Co it will no longer exist cuz there's just not enough people to maintain it that like fundamental math is like really hard for a lot of people to confront just the fact that life is short it actually doesn't matter what else they accomplish the 2030s are going to be a disaster for China [Music] unless it was a long journey Meandering uh bouts of shitty Tech sales jobs and unemployment in my early to mid 20s and then decided to start writing about Bitcoin in 2017 that ultimately turned into to
(01:06) this and here we are eight years later on this in Austin Texas it's great man you had a crazy uncle yeah so uh well I don't know if I want to call him a crazy uncle on the air um but uh but I I I uh my introduction to to bitcoin was uh someone I knew who was uh um introducing me first to like you know jet fuel can't melt steel beams and heart project and like eventually Flat Earth but he was also like hey Bitcoin man and so I was sort of like it sort of had had like a reverse halo effect was I was like I'm not sure about this but
(01:51) then you know having looked back I'm like he's kind of right about some of that other stuff I don't know man I don't know um I had a similar experience with um I I spent a a summer in in Jordan um in college and uh Arabs love conspiracy theories they're they're crazy they just eat them up um and I remember being like Oh no uh you know these poor people they don't have an independent media to to help them know what's true so they're just they're lost in the sauce of all these conspiracy theories and and uh you know come come
(02:25) 2016 2017 I was like I need to go back and apologize to these guys wait a second you were on to something there I mean and as we're finding out in the last two weeks particularly we've been propagandized and our debt and our taxpayer dollar has been weaponized against us to make us believe that uh that we're wrong that America is terrible the white man is terrible yeah man it's been a crazy ride I I remember um Thanksgiving with my uncles uh doing the usual you know talking politics and um one of them was like saying well you
(03:05) know conspiracy is too hard to maintain it's you know somebody would somebody would spill their guts there just too strong of an incentive to to sort of defect and it was like it was like a month after uh Epstein died in prison and I was like I don't it kind of seems like it can be maintained it kind of seems like that thing is that kind of thing is possible so like I don't know what's true anymore and uh yeah a lot of things have cracked open in the last couple of couple of years yeah I I've I've had many my nickname on
(03:34) the show is Marty Jones so I've gone down all the rabbit holes and uh I've got I mean I think I've gone back and forth is it uh malicious intentful action on behalf of a NE nefarious cabal of individuals around the world I think to a certain extent it is but you mentioned the important word I think the incentives are set up in a way where people like the game is set up from an incentive structure in a way that makes it easy for people to sort of game and Garner power and rule over the rest of us and I think a lot of that incentive structure
(04:11) uh that was built up over the last five decades is being laid bare with what's going on now with absolutely the Trump Administration and I that's why I'm so passionate about Bitcoin have been for many years is my idea or my belief is that the core Corruption of the broader incentive systems that humans play Within is the money um and once you that up it has Rippling negative negative externalities across the board one thing which I I mentioned to you in DMS which I truly believe is family formation and totally the subject that I really want
(04:51) to dive in deep with you today is this whole concept of natalism you're throwing uh a conference here in Austin next month uh on the subject I remember last year uh it was first time you did it was last year yeah it was 2023 but it was December 23 okay yeah so like a year and a a month ago uh a number of individuals who attended the conference actually stopped by here um either between the two days or after some of the talks and they were talking about how great it was and so Joe Rogers shout out to Joe Rogers for tagging me um in
(05:25) one of the tweets he sent out late last week and saying you should get involved I was like oh I remember people talk talking about this natalism uh conference I'd love to yeah chat about it because it's a big Topic in the news right totally uh we we just found out that like we've been talking like pronatalism natalism all this stuff the the thing that's really launching is birth rates and I think it's interesting because it's like uh because birth rates is number one it's like this it's like this kpi it's this like indicator and
(05:56) what's really interesting about that is like there there's a there's a cohort of people who who are like because they love kpis they're like look at this dangerous kpi the big line is going in the wrong direction and then you've got this other kind of person who's like psychologically averse to that who's like screw your kpis like screw your spreadsheet brain whatever and uh so I think that's why birth rates is what has launched because it creates this readymade thing to fight about um and I sort of uh I sort of come down on
(06:29) like the the the spiritual side of it and like the psychological side of it and like meaning side of it is what matters to me and it's what matters to my family and the people I care about um spreadsheets is why like uh people with money people with power PE why they should care about it uh because it's kind of coming for them and uh it's like if you don't if you don't create a situation in which Ordinary People can solve their ordinary problems uh those problems are going to compound and aggregate into something
(07:06) that's a big problem for you and so uh so yeah I kind of I see both sides of it but but uh yeah it's it's definitely been in the sight Guist uh with uh with the the baby mama drama of late um what are your thoughts on that is this this whole bringing back a gangas kong like conquer and spread your seed mentality it's definitely not my Approach neither is it mine no no I mean I think um I think people like that are always going to be weird and that's not even me saying like it's okay or uh I approve of it or I
(07:51) disapprove of it it's it's me saying like there are always going to be super strange people doing super strange things and so like if there's if there's a problem with it it's it's it's maybe the the the fact that Ordinary People May perhaps like look at that look to that as an example and be like this is workable for me and it's like I'm not sure it's workable for him definitely not workable for you like this is not uh this is definitely not something you should build a template around no and I I am a strong believer
(08:26) in the sanctity and the pment of the nuclear family uh I think more about the kids yes which is and who knows maybe he's some enigmatic character that like he is the richest man in the world and maybe um many outside observers will be like oh it's okay for him to do it and he's we need his genetic spread and I guess what I would say is that was always going to make him a really weird Dad yeah like regardless of whatever else regardless of how he structured it he he was going to be a weird dad and and that's you know uh so so like it's
(09:05) it's like trying to pass judgment on like a space alien like I I you know you know what I mean like it's it's it has sort of nothing to do with me um but yeah like like for me and for my kids and the life that I want for them I definitely want to be present with my kids um I so so for me the reason I got into this all was was uh basically um I started I started a group called exit which is built around it's a fraternity basically built around how do we have grandkids how do we make sure that we and and the reason it's
(09:37) grandkids and not kids is because if you have like lots of people can have kids anybody can have kids um there's like sperm donors who are like genas Conan reproductively successful right but that's not exactly the point and so so to have grandkids is to say that your thing iterated like it it completed a loop and you passed it down you you you raised your kids such that they wanted to to reinstantiate what you built which I think that's sort of the real the real bottleneck that we're passing through because there's lots of conservatives
(10:07) who have kids who are not having grandkids and there's lots of uh you know uh there's lots of sort of accidental kids and that's not that's not what we're aiming for we're aiming for something that iterates something that works through time and uh yeah I think I think what works is families and so so yeah that's definitely my perspective yeah they open up a little bit more about mine I don't know if I've talked about this too much on the show but I was mentioning before I come from like a big Irish Catholic Family my mom was one of
(10:38) eight I have 25 first cousins and we're all essentially brothers and sisters and we congregate every summer at the vacation spot that we grew up going to and we're very fortunate that our parents set a good example particularly around the nuclear and extended family where we're we're still to this day pretty tightnit like my kids and their kids we we just tell them to call them cousins and they act like we did when we were kids and it's great um that's something that until I moved away from home and spent a considerable amount of
(11:10) time away from home it's been 16 years now I realize um for many people it's not the dorm and it's something is very special very Americana in a sense that needs to be protected and absolutely um I feel very fortunate to have had that experience and now as I have children and grow my family and talk to my wife about what we want to do it's like yeah we want to make sure that we pass that down and yeah and I I often wonder like I took it for granted for most of my life I think particularly up until I had kids and then looked around was like
(11:45) holy like what we have a special like and from what I understand the way my parents talk grandparents Aunts Uncles talk about like it wasn't always that way like that was the norm at least where I grew up in the Northeast section of Philadelphia yeah yeah that was so my my my dad's side is Irish Catholic and my mom's side is latterday Saints so it's two very big families uh with with with very different uh Dynamics but but sharing that that uh that Vibe we used to go to Texoma when was a kid and all the cousins and uh yeah part of part of
(12:19) what's changed is not only um not only the just collapse of cousins you just don't have as many cousins but also the geolocation being actually together is is a challenge and I think that's that's sort of what uh what a lot of people are trying to figure out uh with like remote work and with the sort of political sorting that's happening people are like trying to figure out where they want to plant their feet and uh yeah how do you how do you build you probably can't go back right you probably can't just you know revert
(12:52) to an earlier save but how do how do you reclaim some of that those good experiences that we grew up with I think we might have been the last generation to have to have that be relatively normal damn that's sad yeah yeah I think I mean I think we can get it back I I guess I just mean like what's happening now is not that up freaks do you have a credit card are you getting cash back or Airline points or points for some other service guess what those are shitcoins you want to be stacking Bitcoin and I have some ground breaking news for you
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(14:28) of setting up a private public hey pair securing that seed phrase setting up a pin setting up a pass phrase again bit key makes it easy to use hard to lose it's the easiest zero to one step your first step to self- custody if you have friends and family on the exchanges who haven't moved it off tell them to pick up a big key go to big keyworld use the key tftc 20 at checkout for 20% off your order that's bit keyworld code tftc 20 and so in your opinion what what drove this dissolution of the nuclear and extended family oh man there's a lot of
(15:00) things I I think you know certainly uh just our Mobility the fact that we communicate and travel you know all over the world uh certainly it it has to do with the insinuation of the state into our basic relationships lack of sense of belonging and ownership and and and uh and sovereignty in our families because people invest in things that they this is Bitcoin right they invest in things they can really own and hold and and be responsible for and increasingly uh we are it's it's kind of you'll own nothing and you'll be happy
(15:48) world and like under those circumstances it's it's very difficult for people to feel that it's worth the investment to have kids um and that's not like sometimes that gets characterized as like oh yeah your your your great great grandpa needed Farm labor or he needed someone to take care of him in his old age and that's why he had kids uh and it's a fact that like you know families did depend on each other economically like that was true but that wasn't wasn't why you did it like it's it's it's bigger than that and it has to do
(16:21) with are we building something together are like do we belong to each other are we a meaningfully uh are we meaningfully a thing in oursel in ourselves or are we just sort of Fading Into the background radiation of of the of the monoculture like are we just sort of economic units or you know isolated individuals yeah and that's uh Millennial early 30s MH many cousins older and younger so like I've got a good spectrum of data points just in that group and then obviously broadly outside my Broad social structure and that's one thing
(17:02) I've been really trying to figure out and is it more social these apps the ability to have Mobility to move wherever the normalization of going off to college in Mass um is it really driving that or is it economic or is it a combination of the two um because one thing I've I've talked a lot about on this show and written about I think the dating apps have been terrible abut in the sense that they create this market for optionality where if in the back of your mind it's like oh I can always swipe right for there's always another
(17:35) option out there it creates this um mental uh inability to actually make a commitment from a decision perspective and it also just even if you are prepared to do that uh it makes it difficult to find someone else who's prepared to do that there's a game theory element to it that's that's really really challenging for men and women um men men get uh weeded out at the beginning of the funnel the top of the funnel where it's just swipe left you just don't you don't get a hearing and women get uh uh uh opted out or or
(18:09) or or swept uh basically in the uh what are we phase like you know have these have these romantic relationships or just sort of romantic encounters involvements uh with other people and uh especially when that person is like it's it's what is happening essentially is that like 80% of women are competing for like the top 15 or 20% of men and when someone like that is willing to spend time with you and have sex with you and and and you know do all those things it's very tempting to believe like well you know maybe there's a version of the world in
(18:52) which this leads to marriage and it's like in most cases probably not and and so that that sort of interferes with the process of people connecting uh in ways that actually will lead to marriage and family and all these things are like uh it it all it all goes in the pot like it's all a piece of it like certainly the fact that we can just uh very easily uh take a pill to avoid pregnancy certainly that matters certainly uh the fact that we have that dual income families are the norm in America and like all the houses are priced with that
(19:33) expectation all the jobs the wages are calculated with that expectation everything is is predicated on a dual income family which basically like uh uh Elizabeth Warren uh wrote the two income trap which is like a it's a crazy based book for like Elizabeth Warren uh but it's basically like you know uh women um when they went into the work for first of all the the the wages were depressed and then uh because the kids are staying at home or they're in dayare like number one you got to pay for the daycare and you got to get a second car
(20:11) but the biggest piece is you have to get a house that's in a good school district and in a good neighborhood because you're like you know we're going to sort of abdicate our ownership o over the the culturation and and the education of the kids we're going to hand that off and so it better be really good and so there's this intense competition for like the the nicest neighborhoods with the best schools which are those are positional Goods they're inherently uh you can't just have all the schools be good schools
(20:44) there's a best school um and that's where the competition is the fiercest and so uh all of these things conspire to create a situation where really like the the the economic cap for like a normal two income median income family is two kids because after that the daycare math stops making sense and so you know in order to have sort of replacement fertility 2.
(21:14) 1 TFR you have to have half the population having more than two kids and that's we're nowhere near that so that's that's sort of what's causing this uh this decline which then sort of inverts you mentioned I don't know if we were on the air for this but you mentioned um the money uh once you corrupt the money you corrupt all sorts of Downstream things um when when fertility is when when the expectation of like secular decline secular stagnation is baked in because of population de because there's only two ways an economy can grow right it can
(21:49) grow through uh productivity per worker or more workers right so if you if you are saying we're going to have massive decline and accelerating declines in the number of workers well then in order to keep up you have to have this massive increase in productivity which isn't happening doesn't happen and so you so you lose that expectation of growth which means all of these economic structures that are predicated on Leverage and predicated on the expectation of future returns uh they don't just stall or weaken or or or they
(22:25) they actually like invert they actually like collapse MH um you mentioned kind of getting red pilled by 2008 it's kind of a similar situation it's not a it's not a decline it's a crash it's a collapse and uh and places like so so the 2008 housing bubble is a good example because like you could just if you as long as you could just keep paying your mortgage uh if you waited till what I think 2012 in most markets you were you were back at least back to whole you weren't underwater and uh but what's happened in China is they've
(23:01) built I want it's it's like it's like twice as much housing as they need basically and the fact is it's there's no catching up to that Supply there's never going to be enough Chinese people to live in those houses so the value of those Investments is it's not decline it's not going to recover it's zero yeah uh those those houses are going to like fill with mold and rats and fall apart before they're ever inhabited they're literally just knocking them down they're building them and knocking them down as a c jobs program it's it's the
(23:28) same same it's the same kind of shenanigans as like the collateralized debt obligations it's it's the same it's it's it's just fraud it's but it's because it's happening in the real world like I guess you could say it's packaged a different way yeah at least there's the machines and the labor and that's maybe they're learning something by building all these houses and knocking them down but like that's kind of it and so when you have something like that which which like that's that's like most Chinese people's retirement expectations as they
(23:58) have these these Investments and they you know sort of hoping the government bails that out but like it's a it's a huge problem and it's 100% defined by their inability to to to start families with the one child policy obviously playing a big huge huge I mean although they've reverted on that haven't they have reversed it and like every other every other East Asian country is going through the same thing it's like it's like one child certainly made it worse it accelerated it but like it was kind of coming for them anyway
(24:29) and it uh so so I and what's interesting about China and Japan is like their play is perfect like they're they're they're making all the other moves right like they're making all these investments in automation all these investments in stem like their people are very well educated they're very conscientious and high IQ and like you would expect that like if anybody was going to like win the game it would be them but because they get this one thing wrong which is like this fundamental deep spiritual profound
(24:58) thing like you can't convince your people to to raise families fulfill this basic human need um it actually doesn't matter what else they accomplish like the 2030s are going to be a disaster for China unless like basically you would need like the AI escaton you would need the uh the the armies of humanoid robots just just doing the work for you in which case maybe you can knows up but that's like that's like a whole different existential problem for the Chinese so like this is massively important is it it it ramifies to you
(25:33) know the fate of civilizations and uh and I actually uh somebody pointed out the other day I I bought the domain for 12 bucks a year natalism dorg so it's like it's not when we got in it was like not nobody was talking about it but it's like this incredibly important issue and that's why we're why we're having a conference yeah and you've mentioned the kpi obviously top of mind for a lot of people 2.
(25:59) 1 replacement rate needed China Japan bad but just like in your mind like to quantify the severity yeah of the situation globally like what like how would you put into context the danger that lies ahead if things don't change drastically globally yeah so so well there's danger and there's opportunities and I want I want to be be clear about that because like a lot of what we're going to be talking about at the conference is like um anytime that anytime that you're trying to um out like trade faster than like the investment banker who's got his like
(26:37) computer hooked up right next to the exchange to The Exchange so the electrons can get there faster like that's kind of a sucker game we had that book right next to you Flash Boys talk all about that but if you can be be taking bets that these big institutions not only don't see but can't see then there's all kinds of opportunities that open up and so uh I mean I I can talk about the the gloom and doom and and the catastrophizing uh that that's that's certainly real um essentially what you're what you're going to see
(27:14) is rich countries getting old and like either they have to do something like Japan where they go through I mean it's been 30 years and there's been essentially no economic growth in Japan yeah completely flat the Central Bank owns essentially half their bond market they're buying stocks now it's all being propped up financially at least by the printing of money right and and and many people point to Japan and they say like well you know Japan's a pretty nice place to and of course it is wonderful place to live uh not dismissing that and
(27:49) it took it took an immense amount of hard work and like and like preparedness and thought and dedication just to keep them stable as they've managed this demographic transition but a yeah like they're they're working harder they've put in all this investment and it's still flat that's for one thing and for two they're not done like their population is still getting older and their population's still declining like they they've sort of P passed the crest but now they're on the deine it doesn't recover because the more have you seen that
(28:24) there's that there's that political cartoon of um the kid and and he's holding the uh student loan debt and the Boomer's like I'm not paying for that and the next page is he's got Social Security on his back and it's like it's like he's he's getting hit from both ends he's got to cover both sides of it and that's what's happening is essentially it's it's getting harder for people to raise families as this problem of raising families gets worse and so yeah it's it's this accelerating Trend unless you find a way to uh to nose out
(28:56) of it and and you know uh so we talk about Japan that's like that's like best case um no immigration full automation like that's how they're handling it um maybe other countries can pull that off maybe they can't uh Korea very similar but they're they're actually deeper in the fertility I it's like 7 TFR per woman which is very very low basically it means for every 100 Koreans there will be four great-grandchildren which that's I mean that's essentially that's game over that's like that that culture will no longer be coherent it
(29:34) will no longer exist because there's just not enough people to maintain it um holy yeah it's crazy it's crazy and you know people can say well you're extrapolating too far into the future maybe it'll recover and it's like but it keeps going further down like there's no reason to assume it'll even stabilize here so um anyway those are those are some options there's also the uh American and European model which is we'll just pump it with immigration right has been working too well no it's I mean there's there's several things wrong with it
(30:10) like you know even if you just like as a matter of spirituality and Aesthetics and meaning you say like well one one economic widget is as good as another one labor unit right uh which I don't agree with that practically or morally but even if you stipulate that uh these these uh immigrants number one they don't uh have even replacement fertility in their home countries like that TFR in Latin America is at replacement and falling so like they're going to we're going to run out of other other people's kids we're not going to be able to
(30:50) maintain uh just sucking up all the young blood from from the whole rest of the world and like you know these countries are going to reach a point where they have to think about like where are are young people how are they you know who's going to take care of grandma yeah and like in Japan that that you can maybe answer that question with robots but like not in Guatemala or Bhutan you know what I mean like these these countries are getting old before they get rich and China is actually you know for all the know you can what the
(31:24) glittering drone shows over Shenzhen and like there's lots of uh cyberpunk imagery coming out of China these days but like I looked it up their GDP per capita is still like in line with mova and Montenegro like it's still developing country it's still they've got a lot of rural poor people and they're not food independent and so for them the task of taking care of this massive population of the agent is going to be enormous and you know uh I mean they they take actions that are uh things that you couldn't get away
(32:04) with politically in America you know maybe they solve that in a really gruesome way I don't know but it's going to be it's going to be tough it's going to be a difficult situation and that I mean that ramifies to how they fight Wars too I mean it's the biggest army of only children that's ever existed so like how uh you know how does the population deal with with everybody's only son and they have a gender imbalance too right because one child policy favored males over females so you have like 40 million more men than women
(32:31) in maybe 10 years ago they were talking about like oh you know China's going to be dangerous because they've got this young hot-blooded you know kadre ofis disposable men who nothing to lose they kind of aged out of that so so um you know I don't know I don't know what's going to happen there but um with uh so that's that's that's one option with with the immigration and uh uh what's happening in Europe what's happening in America you're obviously getting this like are we um you know who are we as as English people as Germans As Americans what's
(33:11) our identity and then like you just sort of the expectation especially when it's couched in in in these sort of crass economic terms of like we need someone to pay for Social Security it's like why would you expect that you could import these people away from their own grandparents and just expect them to like pay into your system and respect the arrangement that you made with your ancestors and descendants like this sort of social compact that existed across Generations why would you expect them to honor that
(33:40) why why would they have any obligation to honor that so yeah that that's that's really not workable and uh it's going to collapse in a different way yeah and you can see that play out in the data in the form of remittance data like right it's not going into Social Security it's going back to where they came from right in a lot of places right and I I think what you were describing here too because obviously the immigration debate whether it's here in America UK Germany all over the world very heated right now
(34:07) very vitriolic and um I do think the the core focus on immigration is important but I I think what you're getting at is really the Crux is like you have this collapsing replacement rate around the world and what is a solution not importing people but I think El Salvador has been a great example of like reverse diaspora where we need to work on creating conditions economic conditions social conditions where people actually want to live where they're from and develop a family and do it the right way but the convers and that's I mean
(34:44) immigration obviously a great replacement Theory which uh many people were like oh that's a conspiracy theory it's like the UN wrote a paper on it and yeah um what was it the cven Howard what was it the uh cven Howard sort of theory I mean it's it is an economic policy that people have put out there publicly for decades and sure it's pretty obvious if you have more than two brain cells and you're paying attention that it's treding to be implemented right globally and it's obviously not working and the the the sort
(35:17) of the strong the strongest case I can make for the like you know it's not really happening take is like they could say you know well we just don't you know we don't really enforce immigration law and like it happens to be this useful thing and like it happens to like it's a good thing um but it's not a conspiracy it's just sort of like people want to come here and that like but even that it's it's it's very mey mouth like they clearly like it it clearly benefits their their political team uh to have a dependent class that's sort of their
(35:55) only tie I mean that's for Makia Valley right like like you obviously a tyrant pref prefers foreigners because they're sort of attached to him and dependent on him and they they you know uh they're more inclined to serve his interests than like the native population so yeah I mean that's that's that's pretty obvious suff freaks the rules of the game have changed the first 30 days of the Trump Administration have ushered in a massive shift in Bitcoin policy regulatory Clarity is emerging institutions are stepping in and America
(36:23) could be on the cusp of a national strategic Bitcoin Reserve join unchain for an exclusive online event with Connor Brown Council to US senator Cynthia lumus Preston pish and Matt Pines from the Bitcoin policy Institute on February 25th at noon Eastern the event will cover what's changed how it impacts your generational wealth and what might be coming next don't get left behind secure your spot now sign up at Unchained docomomo so we're getting together to to bring all these all these different factors like I mean
(36:58) it's it's definitely about the dating apps and it's definitely about immigration and it's definitely about um secularism and it's about all these things it's all it's all part of it um and so the purpose of the conference is to get basically dice it up into categories and say like let's talk about the the health cons we haven't even talked about the health consequences which is like uh or the health causes of it which is like so many more people are obese so many people more people have metabolic disorders and hormonal disorders and
(37:33) it's like obviously you know if if a huge portion of the population is is overweight and has metabolic health issues like it's going to be harder to date it's going to be harder to to to connect to be not only to be attractive to each other but to be attracted to each other like because you know it interferes with libido and it and it it messes with uh things like things like you know hormonal birth control messing with the types of people that we pair with yeah I mean the the observations of women who come off birth control and they don't
(38:07) like their partner anymore because their endocrine system was so messed up from it terrifying right yeah terrifying and that's real and it's like you know we've just sort of uh sort of polluted that system in a really serious way and and and so so we've got so we got people coming to talk so we got like ra nationalist he's he's a guy who is concerned about those things he's going to come talk about you know the issue of of declining sperm counts and reproductive health and so that's one piece of it then there's the dating
(38:36) issue and we've got like uh we've got a guy who who built essentially a matchmaking app to come talk about what he's doing and uh you know what is like is is is dating apps are dating apps just like sort of a a flawed form factor like do they just sort of fail intrinsically to to accomplish this goal or is there some way to make like a good dating app you know uh jury still out on that but then uh you know why is it also so difficult for people to get married and that's a really that's a really deep one because so we've got we've got uh
(39:12) Britt Benjamin who's going to come talk about um marriage law she's a divorce attorney and she did this great presentation last year about basically it's like it's it's the most important agreement that that most people are ever going to enter into is is is their marriage but it's like completely unenforceable as a contract like it obviously divorce has extreme Financial consequences and social consequences but the terms of the contract themselves are like the those are like toothless there's very little you can do except just snap the line get
(39:49) divorced and so uh people men and women are like terrified to get married and sort of reasonably and so uh it's about how do you how do you make that contract do what contracts are supposed to do which is not to you know not to coers people into Arrangements they don't want but to set the terms and make sure that everybody's on the same page when they come together so that they don't they're not surprised later on and they're not like you know there's no there's no sort of uh obscure expectations right I didn't
(40:31) realize this was a big holdup for people huge hold up getting married in the first place oh yeah no uh in fact like if if you look at so um one of the uh speakers last year stepen Shaw was talking about how basically it's it's you know if if the fertility rate is like 1 point6 1.5 in the US right now or something like that it's not actually um all the households having 1.
(41:00) 5 kids it's more like families who have kids having 2 three four or five uh that's a very you know sharp declining tail right but there's this huge portion having zero and it's like I think it's like 40% of Millennials it's something like that it's some huge number that uh that are basically never going to have kids and we're sort of to yeah coming on yeah cuz what the lower band of Millennials is what turning 30 yeah yeah so we're sort of finding the the last bit of uh who's going to have kids and you know lots of Millennials are going
(41:36) to have kids in their 30s but so many of them haven't even started and um and and Jordan Peterson has an interesting bit on this he's like you know if if if it's past 40 yeah crazy right Logan's looking up the stat oh nice what's it that Logan okay it's all over the place right like you're going to you're going to find a bunch of things but it's it's a ton of Millennials who are not having kids and uh number one like that's going to change the political makeup of the country all by itself just because of who's having like
(42:10) who shows up in the next Generation Um in addition to all the economic and and and political ramifications of of just not having as many people so uh so yeah that's that's a big piece of it and so when when people are being asked to uh enter into this this relationship this contract that that is that is you know even if it's not a marriage like having kids is this binding Comm Mutual obligation where you're just stuck with each other for a long time uh you know ideally forever but but a long time um and people don't want uh to to enter
(42:55) into that if there's no clear expect like everybody sort of expected to to synthesize their own values from from the from The Ether and just make up what they believe in there's no common expectations so are you getting getting at that maybe the the Stray away from faith has led to this yeah I mean yeah I think I think certainly that although even societies where there was religious pluralism or there was you know a more sort of secular way even societies like that have had children and and expectations about what
(43:33) a family is MH like we're dealing with something that's yes it's secularism but it's like even more fundamental than that it's like the total rejection of objective meaning and so like what is a marriage for what is a wedding for what are you know why would you why would you have that expensive party like what is the point of that party I saw you quote tweeting somebody today complaining about somebody brought a kid to a wedding yeah yeah it's that kind of thing it's like you know and and yeah like not all not all uh couples who get
(44:07) married have kids that's fine but the purpose of the institution is to create an environment for raising children like that's sort of the the Primal purpose of marriage and so uh with that understanding lost it's like you know trying to find somebody that want to marry it's like what does that even mean to you what does it mean to them and so when that's all nebulous people feel this incredible pressure to like number one they have to find somebody who's like deeply compatible so that they can work all this stuff
(44:44) out but it also because it's such a risky move they sort of want to uh they want to find somebody who is like really extraordinary like it it it had better be somebody amazing for me to take on this huge risk and so you know of course there's all kinds of heartbreak and disappointment and difficulty in dating because of that and uh Jordan Peterson was talking about like you know if if you're going to take two years to assess a par a particular partner each time it's like you get to you get to look at like five people as
(45:21) as as a woman like in terms of your reproductive window if you want to have kids you get to look at like five people and so so uh that that like fundamental math is like really hard for a lot of people to confront uh just the fact that life is short yeah especially just think about like when women enter the years in which they're most fertile and able to have late teens early 20s mid 20s and the culture particularly here in US is like go to college have fun graduate maybe get a job in a big city mm continue to
(45:57) have fun and then I I'm pretty sure like the way most Millennials think is like all right by the time I'm 30 I should have my partner and we should have a plan to get married by like 30 and like observationally I think that's at least uh a lot of the people individuals in my cohort that's the way they thought I was like all right College fun get a job find a partner I want to have kids by 32 was like yeah how they thought and uh you know if I get there and I don't have enough I'm not rich enough at that point
(46:27) and I haven't met the right person like the money thing is huge because it's like well I want them to go to the right school because it's competitive and it's hard that's a huge problem in Korea the Koreans it's it's hyper competitive and so people are dumping all their resources into one kid like that's that's actually very common like like uh for Koreans to like actually get married have a family but just just one kid in the US it's kind of like if you're going to have kids you might as well have kids yeah um and the problem is is zero
(46:58) uh TFR so uh so yeah we're we're going to be we're going to be talking about the health side the dating side the marriage side and then the economics of raising a family like the the two income trap and all that and we've got sort of speakers set aside for each of those categories um and then we're going to have like an unconference portion where basically it'll be like two talks and then a nonconference where like the the attendees get to come and discuss what they heard and what they what they come to bring to the table and it's
(47:30) uh it's the at this price point the quality of the attendees is extraordinarily High they're very committed to this issue they're very smart and they are uh as interesting as the speakers in a lot of cases and just tons of really like that was the biggest feedback from the original conference was like more unconference let us talk to each other let us let us build together it's spilled over here like I was saying had a few people stopped by here after and there were like the conversation that was happening nice at the conference
(48:02) like continued and like oh where are you guys at and they like oh we're at this natalism concert Ben bradoock we actually recorded nice the week he was here and like me him and Michael Goldstein had a conversation about the content at uh at the conference awesome I love right here and uh yeah it is it's very important and again going back to my story I I don't think I recognized how how bad the problem was until I physically got away from my Nuclear and extended family I was like oh this is really bad I think me and my wife
(48:37) like um again feel very fortunate like she was best friends with my cousin growing up her mom and dad my parents knew each other she her parents are very good friends with my aunts and uncles they all she grew up with my cousins in a different County in Pennsylvania and so like when we I started courting her when I was 17 it was like a very natural fit as we've gotten married there is some not that my wife and I are deeply in love but like there going back to like the family Dynamic like there is some like social yeah sort of structure
(49:09) set in place where even if we wanted to get divorced it would just be so socially ostracized within our family group that it wouldn't be worth it yeah people treat those things as if they're adversarial mhm that the that the idea of that there's a social context that that sort of keeps you channeled that that's at odds with sort of the Serendipity and the magic and and the beauty of of of love I don't think so at all I don't think it is at all I I think I think it actually helps you to find each other helps you to focus help like
(49:45) it it it it maintains the ability to to build that like what's happening now is is total diffusion and total like nobody's making it's not like it's not like we we we tore down all those rules and everybody suddenly became you know deeply passionately you know vibrantly in love it's completely the opposite it's just completely sexless not sexless but but uh unerotic culture and uh yeah so you mentioned having this big extended family I think that's how you solve the uh well there's so many information problems now it's not just
(50:23) um it's not just finding a a spouse there are so many problems now where the information environment is so overwhelming there's so much optionality there's so much possibility that one person can't possibly assess it all and you're finding that people sort of spontaneously are gravitating toward these Affinity groups where uh some of that search can be sort of crowdsourced and and and there's more nodes in the network and and richer connections are possible and I think it's sort of a it's sort of a rebirth of community within
(51:01) the new technological environment like we sort of had this deterritorialization where we were sort of broken loose from these categories defined by geography and now we're trying to rebuild on these uh grounds of of affinity and uh so like a lot of a lot of what I see is like what I want to get out of the conference personally is I want to connect with the kind of people that I want to introduce my wife and kids to because I want my kids to have really solid Playmates and mentors and peers and Rivals people who challenge them and
(51:37) then eventually you know so the way the way I would put is like um you may have heard the saying like you know uh uh if if you want to know what your kids will be like they're going to be like your your spouse you like you you pick your spouse on the basis of like this is something I want my kids to be like I think the way you pick your grandkids is you pick your tribe cuz your tribe is who your kids are going to marry people that you work with and socialize with and interact with and go to church with like that's who your
(52:04) kids are going to marry um if you do it right and and so what I want to do is I want to make sure that I have great admirable excellent kids and that they meet other admirable excellent kids and they have excellent grandbabies and uh because fundamentally I think that's sort of like um uh this bottleneck that we're passing through is Extreme yeah we're going need to be on our game yeah and my wife and I joke about it quite often it's like we're pretty cuz we're not an arranged marriage but like you could squint and
(52:41) look at our situation like was that arranged it wasn't it was natural but we joke like we're pro- arranged marriage because just thinking about how easy our life um through the courting and marriage process and having children has been made because of the integration of our families is I I don't think you should discount that like it is something that is very undervalued and that you should search for if you're out there looking for May like depend on these these networks these filtering systems yeah I think even more or less
(53:12) normal people like they don't have to be like weird political people like me I think most people if you describe like what would be your ideal dating situation how would you like to meet your spouse what they will describe is something that is is like a uh essentially the modern version of arranged marriage which is like your your mom and all your aunts get together and they sort of put together some dossier right and then you you choose from the dossier right uh like I think I think the search part and the and the soul searching of like you
(53:54) know is this person really a fit if if you have lots of people who know you from the outside and understand you and love you and have your best interest at heart like at minimum if you have that group of people telling you like go ahead green flag you know uh that I think would make it so much more easy to to to to relax for a lot of people and and um this is something that I've talked about it's a little bit strange but like uh part of the reason why I didn't want to do too much Doom and Gloom on the issue is
(54:30) that a huge part of uh the the dance of of mating for for for lack of a better term that is being disrupted right now is the the looseness the fun the casualness the openness um I've talked about this in a couple other places but like the fact that you could the fact that you could like be sending some Amorous tweets uh to a girl and those might be broadcast on Instagram uh the next day uh that's a huge disruptor of the dance and um because you kind of need to get into is she going to put me on blast yeah yeah well you because the whole
(55:23) point is that you need to be in this like relaxed kind of irrational emotional heads space to flirt and connect I mean that's why bars exist right like I so I'm a latterday saint I don't drink but like it's clear the reason that bars exist is because people need to be in a relaxed lowkey state for things like that to happen and so that's a that's a not a facilitator I would use but it's a facilitator MH and so uh the fact that we are under constant obac obervation the fact that we are in in constantly in artificial highly legible like
(56:03) panopticon environments where our where our our moves can always be judged uh as like death to libido and eroticism and and and connection between people yeah and it and we're not going to Doom we're not going to Doom I think another white pill I think people I do truly maybe it's the X bubble that we're in the Twitter bubble that we're in um or the the political bubble that we're in whatever it may be but I think Millennials particularly are waking up to it I there's plenty of women particularly that I know my extended
(56:41) Network that have woken up to like holy MH I started this process too late and you're beginning to see people vo GL I'm sure you saw the Tik Tok that went semi viral with those people sitting in the circle and you had the girl there saying like I was I was taught to go to college be a girl boss get a job and all I want now that I've done that like I hate it and all I want is a husband and some children and take care of them yeah and I think there is some sort of natural reversion to the mean at least socially where people wait a second
(57:14) maybe we this up and need to begin rethinking about that and I know that's happening in the millennial generation I'm just curious if that's and I don't know if you have the answer to this but if the jenz is looking at had to us being like maybe we shouldn't repeat the mistakes that they did I think it's taking an interesting shape which is I think that they are uh they're much less careerist than any living generation right they're like clearly the answers aren't there and that uh in some cases has led to a kind of like
(57:59) nihilism um it's like you know it's it's not the career thing and it's not anything else um but I think in a lot of cases it's like it's leading to this like searching spiritual searching and uh yeah I mean you know the fact that uh I I don't I don't think I don't think that we're going to get back to well I don't think we ever get back to anything like I think I think time only goes in One Direction um but we are we are experiencing a kind of spiritual Revival among a subset of the population and so like there's there's a conversation
(58:41) about like you know can we nose up it's like number one who's we right like uh can can the world nose up the world's going to have demographic problems like like there's nobody who has a megaphone big enough to make it so that the world doesn't have some kind of demographic problem in the 2030s that's baked in um and even if they did like like the the kids that will Define that labor shortage are already 10 so like you you can't make more 10y olds you can only make more babies right so that's happening clearly but can uh can America figure
(59:24) this out I think maybe they can can uh your tribe your community your family figure this out unambiguously absolutely they can and in fact the the the fact that we are uh the fact that there are certain phenomena that the institutions that sort of run the world as it is right now can't see like like this should be an existential uh uh project for the Chinese for the Koreans for the Japanese for for the US for Europe all of them it's not because these institutions are not built to perceive threats that are you know you have to do something
(1:00:10) about them now and in 18 years you get to pay off right as a high velocity trash economy focuses on exactly monthly statements quarterly growth all that exactly exactly and so in the absence of that it's like there's there's money l in on the table uh both literally and figuratively uh because the big institutions can't handle uh problems like this but we can we you know humans exercising human judgment totally can and so yeah I think I think uh I think the people who are aware enough to be concerned about this and to take action
(1:00:53) on it and to connect with other people who care about it they're going to figure it out totally they going to figure it out yeah this is actually reminding me of a conversation I had in lunch last Friday with somebody in somebody in the investment world we were talking about like the problems with investing particularly Venture Capital investing PE investing like even look at the stock markets look at priced earnings ratios and it's just all been everything has been reoriented around the high velocity trash economy of what
(1:01:26) are your quarterly financials what's that looking at and what are the flows of capital from the money printer into these assets and tying it back to bitcoiners obviously like to focus on lowering time preference thinking longer term building families is part of that but then like reintroducing patient Capital into the market via Bitcoin because you you have the ability to accumulate wealth in a hard asset and if the trend continues adoption continues the purchasing power of your Bitcoin is going to go up and so
(1:01:59) therefore you can begin making long-term capital allocation decisions and I I do think it's a core part of the problem is the money and people talk about the economic situation more broadly and the fact that two people and uh two parents in the workforce sending kids a daycare inflation's running it's harder to keep up like if if we had good money you the ability to actually be productive save and watch that personing power increase it's like all right mom come back to the home take care of the kids and and then
(1:02:32) when it comes to like rebuilding maybe not even rebuilding to your point like you don't go back like reorienting the world around institutions that are developed by people with this long-term mindset like the money good money is going to need to be part of that solution even just the fact that I mean one of the things that we talked about in the beginning uh the the fact the the fact that the most influential and powerful people are uh like psychologically really strange um I think is a consequence of like the fake software economy it's like
(1:03:11) there's a certain type of person who's excellent at solving that type of problem and they have a bias toward converting all of reality into that type of problem so that they can solve it the way they solve everything and bit coin has put so much wealth and so much new power in the hands of uh cranks and I use that affectionately like like like we need more cranks we need more we need more people with wild ideas and uh and and and uh like like um the the the tech the tech boom led to uh an inversion of like the jock nerd
(1:03:59) dichotomy but it was like the Nerds had to like pile into the Paradigm of making money it was like the Nerds who were useful to that system who who could who could sort of tend the managerial machines and that's why I mean that's that's in my view that's why uh small Tech is like tends to be rightwing and big Tech tends to be like big blue blob you know fake and gay it's like uh the people who can who can snap into these Capital systems and who can sort of uh be like who can who can Excel within that frame who can stay within that frame uh
(1:04:42) that's who has money but with Bitcoin you know the the PE it's anybody who holds Bitcoin right like it's just anybody so like diogenes could not be a tech billionaire but he could totally be a Bitcoin billionaire right like guy sitting in a n right like that's that's uh that opens up all kinds of possibilities yeah and I and I don't want to harp too much on my personal story but I do truly believe like without Bitcoin like I said I got into Bitcoin relatively early was uh smart enough maybe fortunate enough lucky enough to squirrel away a
(1:05:23) little bit of per per paycheck in my early 20s like I was telling you before we hit record like I had a bout of unemployment um right before I start started this Media company I was unemployed for like 18 months um Bitcoin at that point so this was like late 2015 into 2017 uh at that point like Bitcoin in 2015 went all the way down to 180 but then towards the end of 2016 um started going back up and I took some odd jobs made some money on the side and made it uh a point not to sell the Bitcoin um but then it got to the point where I
(1:06:01) with my wife for many years at that point I was like we need to get married and Bitcoin gave me the confidence to get married having that savings yeah that I built up over the course of four or five years at that point um I said it it's time to get married Let's Get Married let's start a family and I don't know if I would been able to make that same decision if I didn't have that like safety net of the savings that I built up in my early 20s and individual situations are individual but like in the aggregate it's obvious like
(1:06:31) people don't breed in a cage they don't like they don't start families if they don't they're not in control of their lives and so few people feel like they're in control of their lives and I think you're right that it's absolutely it's connected to the the economic system that we live under and who's and who's in power because of that and uh yeah I think I think Bitcoins profoundly disruptive techn cryp the the the the architecture of just blockchains in general creates the possibility like again the the possibility of privacy the fact that
(1:07:09) you can uh that you can do things and be things that are nobody's business yep like that's immensely powerful and it's it's immense return to a more natural way of life because cuz like even the most tyrannical even the most powerful autocrats of the premodern era had nowhere near the surveillance and enforcement tools that our state has it's not even close and it's not just the state it's like again the fact that your your your your date can like put you on blast on on Instagram like that's part of the whole
(1:07:49) panopticon like that's that's it's it's not just the state it's this whole thing yeah it's like the uh like the the girl blasting you on Twitter she's like a I don't want to say SS agent but like some like an external operative for the surveillance state right for who right like and that's what you were talking about with like incentives like it's not necessarily that it's a cabal it's just that the incentives flow a certain way yeah and that was actually I'm sure you saw it but Sam Hy's uh monologue towards letter
(1:08:20) to Elon Musk particularly and that was the one section that really stood out to me was like what are we competing against China on like do we want this digital panopticon do we want these just inputs cogs in the machine in the economy and I think there it is time and and honestly there's never been a better time with this current Administration I mean JD Vance going explicitly saying humans are not economic inputs and some machine that you just put them in was incredibly was incredibly uh just incredible to see
(1:08:54) yeah and I think the way Sam phrased that as monologue I I do think we do need to have the conversation As Americans particularly with this ad I think Trump Administration should think deeply about this too like what are we competing against China on like what kpis is it birth rate is it energy output I think yeah we need to get more focused on the social side of things like what is what is in America what is a strong America and I think falling back to being able to form these strong nuclear extended families and these
(1:09:27) tribes beyond that is something that we should really begin to shift the narrative toward totally that's why I'm happy you're throwing this conference well thanks man it it it it connects to the the Elon thing it connects to China it connects to bitcoin like the fact that if if you are not if your answer if your if your framework if your structure no matter what else it gets right if it's not convincing young people to fall in love and have kids it's failing it's going to fail um because the it it's just people it's
(1:10:11) just it's it's the the purpose of of a society or a community or a state should be the people of that society and like if if they're opting out of existence something's gone wrong wrong you're messing it up and so so yeah it's that's that's what we want to that's what we want to talk about and it's going to be an incredible group of people I'm I'm I'm really excited to hear like the the the Bitcoin angle like in depth uh uh at the conference because I think and and I hope we get a lot of Bitcoin people to come because I think
(1:10:44) so last last round we had we had sort of uh a lot of tech people and a lot of people who are sort of right leaning tech people so a lot of them were were into Bitcoin and then we had like a big kind of Trad uh contingent it almost it almost kind of presaged the the Trump Coalition in some ways it was like people who clearly were like we need to find together right right right um but we didn't have any explicit like let's talk about the money um which I think is is uh it's it's a tremendous addition yeah it's uh it's extremely important
(1:11:20) and I again I'm beating a dead horse here now but like I think that's going like bit the on the Bitcoin side of things like we've been talking about this for years like we've been noticing like this growing Trend and this fervor around um sort of this new political movement saying this is not working and what ultimately led to Trump the first time and now the second time and it's funny because I'm an investor uh we invest in Bitcoin businesses yeah and nobody is seeing the opportunity in the broader Venture landscape yeah uh for
(1:11:56) investing in Bitcoin companies which we're sort of perplexed by but we also sort of love because there's less competition to getting to Great companies that we think are going to build infrastructure that leads people to this Superior technology um but there's so many otherwise sensible really sharp people out there that have not realize that a part of the puzzle uh to ultimately getting to the end state that they talk about getting to is Bitcoin and yeah it's blowing our minds for like that's part of the reason
(1:12:32) we started this here in Austin as this energy from the tech sector um Bitcoin you got the comedy scene like it feels like a lot is co incredible Town particularly particularly around this corner that we're on right now is like these like and like you said we're cranks to a certain extent so people think we're crazy but it's like no like if you guys just add a Sprinkle a little Bitcoin to what you're trying to do can I can I drop a theor on on theory on you why that's happening why so uh I worked at Lockheed in strategy and we would we
(1:13:03) would talk about I was cubicle drone I didn't do anything important but I was I was on strategy team and um we would talk about The Radars and the missiles and the air strips and everything about the South China Sea we would never talk about nuclear weapons and that was really puzzling to me until I met Malcolm Collins who was a VC in Korea and and he would go talk to investment uh Banks and and people who are involved in VC and nobody would ever talk about the birth rate in Korea which is equally existential for the Korean
(1:13:37) people and I started putting it together and I was like you know if uh if you make a if you're if you're a PM at Lockheed or a VP or something a director and you decide internally that I'm going to place a bet on nuclear war global thermonuclear war how do you cash in your chips when you win like how do how do you make an internal bet that's right and then you get something you get a promotion you get a raise something well you kind of can't because that thing's if if you're right that thing's going to zero the
(1:14:14) whole thing congrats you won you're dead right similarly uh how do you make a bet on on to be clear individuals can make a bet on nuclear war right they can Bu The Bunker they could whatever but like the institution will not survive so if you're climbing that ladder and you want to stay on that ladder you just kind of have to say well probably nuclear war won't happen and in Korea it's similar it's like no one no internal constituency within that uh institution can place a winning bet on the collapse of Korean fertility and
(1:14:48) what that's going to mean the the way to place that winning bet is to get out of that institution and I think similarly with Bitcoin if you're catching people who are uh climbing a ladder that is sort of predicated on uh the dollar not collapsing uh there's no way for them internally to win if they're right the only way for them to win if they're right is to get out and get into Bitcoin so like it doesn't surprise me that they're not wanting to sort of cross the streams yeah you kind of have to jump off yeah well yeah that's a very good
(1:15:27) point and it makes a lot of sense and and it just like you say it creates opportunities for you to make investments yeah and that's kind of the kind that's the kind of thing we want to talk about at the conference like how can people who are aware of this set themselves up to succeed yeah and I think there's and that's I got crank crank I'm a crank it's a fun word maybe too optimistic no particularly anybody following you to the show is like not aware of I'm going to sound crazy I'm looking right in the I'm going to sound
(1:15:58) crazy but we've heard the meme of a manufactured soft Landing in the news whether that's from the treasury Biden Administration Trump Administration the Federal Reserve the the conversation of soft Landing like how do we thread the economic needle via perfect policy decisions on interest rates and monetary based expansion and contraction and treasury issuance I truly think Bitcoin is the way you manufacture is off Landing to your point um a lot of people may be thinking I can't cross-pollinate with Bitcoin because that completely negates
(1:16:35) what I've what I've worked my whole life to get up to and the system I I built up within and I I agree like I'm like I'll give you that like it could collapse uh I do think Bitcoin is superior and ultimately the system that you built your career in and uh the way it wired your brain is completely wrong view of the world uh a decade two decades from now I think it's going to look completely different but you're going to have this transitionary period and bringing it back the system that we've built up particularly financially within
(1:17:07) the banking system is just filled with a bunch of debt um that needs to be recapitalized refinanced essentially and we're beginning to see the the beginnings of it and you can see micro strategy with their convertible debt we've got a portfolio that's underwriting commercial real estate loans where it's dual collateralized with the property and Bitcoin like they're saying all right we're going to give you cash to refi pay off your existing mortgage there's a little cash to make some changes to the property upgrade it and here's some cash to buy
(1:17:42) Bitcoin to hold within the loan structure and it's a 10-year loan the longer you hold the loan the more Bitcoin you get at the end so you sort of incentivize people to stay in pay it off create income make sure they're running a good business and so while I get the feeling and understand the feeling of people in that world saying I can't get into Bitcoin because will collapse everything I do it's like it could if you don't do it the right way but there is this sort of like you can just inject Bitcoin little by little and
(1:18:14) transition into this harder money by recapitalizing the debt with better collateral in the form of Bitcoin right I think that would be how you'd have to think about it you'd have to give them a G give them an escape hatch yeah yeah that's fascinating yeah I think that's the right approach yeah sorry I talk a lot I don't know how deep down the Bitcoin Rabbit Hole you are uh I'm not terribly I mean I hold it but I don't I don't uh I'm not I'm not in that world and that's why I'm excited because again going back to whether it's like the VC
(1:18:47) World Finance world but I think um I've talked to like Ben about this and others uh I've talked to the guys at the about this like I think and I hate to make it political but like it is very obvious like the conservative movement that has these goals that they want to get to and I think a lot of people on the conservative side of the the the aisle are missing like Bitcoin is a tool to help bring about um that ultimate goal that you're striving toward absolutely absolutely I I think I I think a lot of uh Republicans and Republican money are
(1:19:34) sort of uh getting shook loose uh by the by the sort of the new the new paradigm uh and it's it's a really exciting time I've been reaching out to politicians and basically saying like look this is uh I am I am interested to hear from any body on any polit of any political persuasion I all I care about is like survival and and and flourishing and thriving and I want everybody to do it like by the way like a lot of people have this like triumphalism about like you know we're going to outbreed the libs or whatever because they're not
(1:20:10) having kids that's true but I think it's bad I I like the the temperaments the types of people who are currently uh chasing a experiences and chasing careers and not having kids many of these people are incredibly productive incredibly creative and like they create Beauty and and and and utility and all kinds of good things that I think we should have and and that we want and so I don't actually want to see them wiped out like I I want them to figure this out and and and and get on side um having said that this issue of natalism lays
(1:21:00) bare the total inadequacy of liberalism to like deal with the problems of our time it it totally exposes like even by their own standards like it won't be good for poverty it won't be good for the developing World it won't be good for the planet it it's not like none of the stuff that they would AR it's not going to be good for uh uh uh racial comedy or equality or any of that it's going to be terrible for all those things so like even by its own by their own sort of framework their own value system it's falling apart and it's
(1:21:42) falling apart because they can't persuade people to have kids and so like I've been I've been reaching out to politicians and I've been I've been saying like look this this issue number one it it unites the Clans it brings together so many different tribes of of people who otherwise would have very little in common um I think it's like Bitcoin in that respect uh but it also it it provides a fundament like a like a like a Manan binary between the light and the dark like do you want life and flourishing do you want
(1:22:20) extermination like that those are the choices that are being sort of set before you and uh and it's an incredibly powerful Framing and so we're sort of trying to to to get this get people more involved with that yeah I think one of the most potent memes like the last five to seven years has probably just been labeling the Davos globalist blob class as malthusians yeah like their policies their stated policy goals uh not even their goals but the uh what they identify as the core of the problem is the human and right biomass
(1:22:55) yeah they need to I mean climate change is the perfect example we need less humans CU we're destroying the planet so stop breeding stop using energy um you're a bad you're a bad human and collectively human for being a human yeah yeah and I think people went along with that for a certain period of time but I think it's all I think we're finally at a point I don't want to say I made the mistake of uh calling PE clown world like 3 years ago I'll never I'll never try to time the top of clown world that's a dangerous
(1:23:29) move but uh but it does I get I get ragged on a lot for that uh that Peak clown World call so I'm not going to call Peak clown world but I will say uh it does seem like many people are coming to their senses like this is the malthusian frame is wrong and we need to reorient and with the USA ID thing it's it's it's shocking how much work has gone into pushing that do you know how many I I I heard this recently do you know how many times Paul you know Paul erck population bomb wrote the book about you know everything's going to you
(1:24:00) know that's where soilent green comes from y we're going to live in trash world just because there going to be too many people and um you how many times he went on Johnny Carson 18 times holy right it's a pure Mocking Bird they just had him over and over and over and over to pump that I I didn't told you this and it didn't hit me until last week but we were um I guess directly targeted by us Aid we really the center for countering digital hate put us on a list oh boy like we're on a list particularly about climate
(1:24:32) change we are we are new deniers according to them but they got funded by usaid so us taxpayers have contributed to oh yeah dude getting this channel on a on a list that's great I mean that was my doxing my my my doxing was paid for by not I don't know if it was USA ID but it was it was there was State involvement for sure yeah I I don't know if you want to dive into the doxing story but um I have like a surface layer understanding what happened like you were working and somebody at work found your Twitter account no no no no no um
(1:25:04) basically I I was already on so so uh a reporter at the guardian was actually this is this is how this is the state involvement a reporter at the guardian was funded by the German intelligence services to create a uh hate speech web of Twitter basically and it's funny because so I'm a latterday saint and uh there were all these like camps and it was like the the tech Bros and the right-wing bodybuilders and the neopagans and the and then because they were like circling uh uh clusters on the map and one of the Clusters was like
(1:25:40) random guys with followers like we don't know who these guys are it was because it was us it was this it was this latterday saint uh Twitter so we would joke about like random guys with followers extremism random guys with followers nationalism um but but yeah so basically um I knew that they were on to me for about a year and I had this decision to make like you know do I uh you know do I do I shut her down and basically I concluded that like apart from my family it was like the only meaningful thing I was doing with
(1:26:14) my day was this communication this talking and uh and and so I was like no I'm just going to I'm going to keep going and and so when they finally doxed me there was a there was an antifa doxing ring out of UVU there's like this trans professor of socio something I don't remember anyway um they got into a group chat that we were part of uh and and basically rolled up like half a dozen of us or a dozen of us or something and uh we you know every week we would watch as some other guy got dox and so I was like right in the middle of
(1:26:53) this uh this event this infiltration yeah yeah yeah I I think I was like the fourth out of like a dozen and uh basically on Monday I you know because I worked for um a sec a defense contractor intelligence contractor and so like you know at other companies I I would you know if somebody accused me of having an on Twitter account I would kind of be like you know you prove it right but this was like I had clearance so I had to go report it to security and be like this happened um so Monday I was told you know go home while we figure this out
(1:27:35) and uh Wednesday I was fired and uh that Friday I started exit and basically what what happened was I had a bunch of people reach out to me and be like hey you know uh we we want to help like some of them you know they concern for me personally which I really appreciated but like more than that it was August of 21 it was right as the vax mandates were coming out it was It was kind of uh not Peak woke but it it was it was kind of a a really dark period a low point and a lot of people were just like they can't keep getting away with this
(1:28:11) they can't keep just having these uncontested just knocking our people out with no recourse and um so people were were trying to help me out and I and I L that and I was trying to help my friends out who were being being fired and I thought you know instead of me just taking one of these jobs what if we just all got together and we started like work on this problem which not the problem of doxing per se but just the problem that we were totally at the mercy of these people who hated us how could we be more Sovereign how could we build something
(1:28:44) that that we were really in control of um and you know toward that end one of so we we got together we had I had 70 guys sign up in the first two weeks which is incredible so I was like all right I'm on to something and uh We've we've built it from there but uh we we quickly realize like what are we what are we actually doing here why do we feel the need to like run our mouths on the internet like what what are we uh what are we fighting for why are we opposed to this system and you know I would talk to people of various
(1:29:18) faiths and like some of these guys aren't aren't religious they're like nian vitalists or whatever you know and uh whom I respect uh love those guys but uh but uh we we were like what are we about together and it's like well if we don't speak up if we don't fight back they're going to sterilize our kids they're going to they're they're going to they're going to make it so that we can't continue what we're because what we are doing what we have is a threat to that power and our ability to speak and so uh so it was like yeah it's it's about
(1:29:55) it's about do we get to have grandkids or not and then we watched um I was at an exit Meetup and we were watching Tucker Carlson's documentary the end of men which is uh ryag Nationalist and a couple other friends talking to like Tucker and RFK about like what is the you know what's the cause of the sperm sperm count decline uh the Obesity epidemic the microplastics the xenoestrogens all that stuff and I said you know this is the fundamental problem is are we going to have grandkids this is what it's all about why don't we get people together
(1:30:30) to talk about that as a as a big picture issue not just uh not just the medical side of it but the whole the sociological the ideological and uh yeah so that was that was the Genesis of exit and then the conference and so exit's still going we've got 230 guys and uh we we have I just just had a meet up in Dallas uh last night they've got a co-work up there with the new founding guys I don't know if you're familiar with them I am I actually um uh they've recorded in this before awesome awesome yeah so there they're they're good friends and we we
(1:31:03) collaborate a lot and um we've got a a pretty solid crew in Houston Austin and Dallas which is sort of why I made the choice to move down here and then a big cluster in in in Salt Lake and uh and like New York DC oh yeah so no it's awesome to say and it's it's something uh it's funny independently like that's what I a lot of big coiners have thought about this as well again lowering time preference Building Family hopefully many bitcoiners talk in like the context like how do you build generational wealth and then pass it
(1:31:35) down um so that's something I'm fascinated about as a topic just general it's just um the transfer of wealth over generations and how do you actually set up things so that your kids don't blow it and your grandkids don't blow it and one of our guys is actually an estate planning attorney who that's his whole game is how do I set how do I help you structure your business so that uh your kids can inherit it and pass and it becomes a a patrimony a meaningful patrimony yeah and more importantly like how do you instill the values where yeah it's all
(1:32:10) part of kids aren't brats and they want to contribute to the family business or feel pride and the wealth and uh responsibility to preserve hopefully grow it and pass it on to their kids he would say that he did a whole presentation to this on this to the guys was tremendous but uh he would say that the families that are the most successful in instilling that are families that take responsibility for some component of their Community that's like in line with their in line with their business Arrangements but also
(1:32:47) sort of in line with their values like I think he was talking about I can't remember the nature of their business but it had something to do with water uh uh treatment or processing or something and like uh apparently there's a family that like their whole thing is like we're responsible for the Trinity River in Dallas and we it's it's our job to take care of that River and um so so like having a generational vocation almost yeah yeah generational VOC is a good word for it like like uh something to be about that isn't just like filling
(1:33:20) Dad's shoes cuz that's obviously time bound and a pretty like perfect Target yeah that's actually really interesting yeah I'll put you in touch with him um this has been great I know you got to get out of here uh I can't wait for the conference and uh yeah man it's gonna be a great time natalism dorg natalism dorg where else can people go uh natalism org on Twitter is probably the best place to find uh and then I'm extra dead JCB I've been doing a lot of the the sort of natalism posting uh so yeah those places and then
(1:33:51) exit group. US is for the group um if anybody's interested in that but yeah it's it's March 28th and 29th here in Austin Texas downtown and it's uh it's uh we're going to do like offer code Marty for uh for 10% off so uh so yeah come on down check it out Kevin thank you you're crushing it dude thanks man peace and love
