Hear Tuur Demeester's insights on societal collapse, Europe's fragility, South Africa's resilient communities, and Bitcoin's pivotal role in navigating economic and cultural turmoil.
This episode of TFTC explores the gradual nature of societal collapse, emphasizing challenges like immigration, cultural fragmentation, and economic mismanagement in Europe, South Africa, and the U.S. He highlights Orania, a self-sustaining Afrikaner community in South Africa, as a model of resilience through state-proofing and self-reliance. Against this backdrop of decay, Bitcoin stands out as a reliable, scarce asset, offering stability amidst systemic instability. Demeester advocates for a return to localized, self-sustaining communities focused on family, culture, and parallel systems like decentralized energy and security to navigate the failures of centralized institutions.
The episode highlights the importance of decentralization, self-reliance, and cultural preservation in addressing societal fragility. Drawing lessons from Europe, South Africa, and Bitcoin, Demeester emphasizes building robust, independent systems as a response to institutional failures. While the challenges are significant, he conveys a message of cautious optimism, urging individuals to seize opportunities for innovation and resilience by “choosing the optimistic timeline.” Bitcoin, with its reliability and stability, is positioned as a cornerstone for this transformative future.
0:52 - Why Tuur went to Orania
8:18 - State-proof cities dealing with crime
14:45 - Orania's origins
19:40 - Fold & Bitkey
21:35 - Population growth and businesses
26:37 - South Africa is devolving
30:10 - Unchained
31:10 - Sentiment toward Orania
32:31 - Scaling Orania's model
35:05 - Diversity and conflict
44:06 - Bitcoin fixes this, not MAGA
51:00 - Narrowing focus to weather the storm
1:01:10 - Cultural conflict makes family pairings difficult
1:06:01 - Meme coins
1:12:22 - Ethereum delenda est
1:17:44 - Bitcoin market and Bessent
1:23:26 - Tariffs and eliminating IRS
1:28:23 - Glass half full
(00:00) in the west when we think about collapse we like to think of it as like some kind of meteorite type event like a big thing and then oh yeah now we're living in the collapse but the reality is more that no you you wake up and today is going to be 0.01% worse than the day before do you think depression is on the table there is so much lawlessness and uncertainty and Decay and I think Europe is toast I still think it's going to be an incredible will bull mark it I think we'll see 400 probably this cycle I think so yeah what do you think I think
(00:37) we go higher than that it's incredibly special to be alive today because yes bad things are happening but also amazing things are happening at the same time I was just explaining it sir I don't mind some Sweater Weather I was just in Costa Rica for 15 days and it was 85 and sunny great for your circadian Riv Rhythm sun rises at 5:30 sets at 5:30 every single day yeah it's great for scheduling yeah you were traveling too that's why we're here yes I did I went to South Africa yeah and you and you visited uh orania yes I did
(01:16) and then briefly Petoria as well you know why did you want to go make this shirt yeah had some very specific reasons so I think I told you about this but um earlier last year I did a presentation in Belgium and it had been 10 years that I did any kind of presentation so and it was a beautiful location Bitcoin conference I wanted to make it something serious so I did Research into what's going on in Belgium and I thought I was going to be talking about the banks and inflation and you know that kind of thing uh but as I was digging into the
(01:54) just the data I was more surprised to see that um immigration has been really on the rise in Belgium and uh you know I'm I'm raised very progressively you know thinking like people assimilate and uh you know you teach them the language and and you know life goes on but one of the things that really shocked me to find was that not only are the immigration numbers like quite staggering like right now 37% of the Belgian population is of immigrant origin meaning you know if you're first generation second or third
(02:31) and um and the thing that shocked me was to see how how people vote you know it's it's so it's it's really not that obvious that the civil liberties that I took for granted are going to be reflected in the voting patterns of the people that came and immigrated to your country especially if they come from you know North Africa or turkey and and and and and you know from outside of Europe and so really seeing that 80% of of that cohort votes very very left and even uh cast a Marxist vote right we have the the Communist party has the highest vote
(03:07) since 1948 right now in Belgium over 10% and so yeah it really was like a shock because I realized well this means it's possible that the whole country could change you know like the whole the institutions like everything and uh and also demographically that the the people who used to be the the natural majority like the the local population they could become a minority and so for a while I was like man I want to do something to help uh there's you know I and I couldn't figure out what I could do like and the best I could think of for quite
(03:47) a while was like well there's going to be a massive diaspora out of Western Europe out of Belgium maybe I can help Channel some of that so maybe we can I don't know start like a colony in Argentina and I was actually planning to know go down there again and and and Prospect and see what what could be done um but then um uh some friends um uh showed me some some things that were happening in in South Africa which is interesting because in a way it is kind of that scenario I just described it's as if that already
(04:21) happened in in South Africa of course they have a very you know different um history um they they you know the the the uh Afric coners who landed there in 1600s if you look at the territory of South Africa I think they they have always been kind of a minority um demographically speaking but ever since the early 9s which was you know the end of a part hide the Rainbow Coalition all of a sudden everybody who lived there had a vote and then the um kind of European descendants they became I think 20 and then now it's probably more like
(05:00) 10% of the population so you're in a situation where it's just impossible to ever vote your way to a different system or a different way of doing things and and where ideologies like like Marxism just go rampant you have very blatant uh parties that totally align themselves with with that kind of thinking uh but nonetheless they've been able to build things there that are really impressive and uh so the first thing that caught my eye was Orna which is an africaner only Town it was started in the early '90s by
(05:35) just like 13 people in the middle of nowhere it's called the karua which is uh very very arid land very very difficult to do anything with if you're close to the river you can do some irrigation you can actually get some decent crops um but only through irrigation other other than that you can you can raise some cattle you know think like pagonia or think you know West Texas like that kind of climate um and so yeah they just struck out there in the middle of nowhere with uh with um just very few people and they
(06:07) managed over the period of 40 years and that to grow it into a town of 3,000 people and um it's just super interesting to see how they work and I was intrigued so I went down there I spent eight days in the town I talked to a lot of people you know the some of the founders um the CEO of the Orna movement spend a lot of time with him and then also the entrepreneurs that are building because one of the challenges as well is that when you have a failing state is that all the services that we take for granted you know sewage security
(06:43) electricity um obviously schooling media you know all those things they they all just Decay more and more and more and and one thing I did learn is that when you when we in the west when we think about collapse we like to think of it as like some kind of meteorite type event like a big thing and then oh yeah now we're living in the collapse but the reality is more that no you you wake up and today is going to be 0.
(07:17) 01% worse than the day before and it's just this kind of gradual grinding so what's happened in South Africa is that the because of the copper theft um a lot of that that's only one reason and also just general mismanagement but there there's so many brownouts like it's there's not a reliable electricity Network anymore and uh so what they've done in Aras gradually build up more capacity because one thing they do have is sun and so um right now I believe 50% of the the money that the inhabitants spent on electricity goes to the local producers like so solar panels either on
(07:55) your own roof of your own house and there is one company orasol who has um uh a big production capacity they also have a giant battery that they bought and uh and so they basically can iron out almost all the brown outs by now so so yeah even you know there's a lot more to say but um it was really special to be there yeah the I mean the reason I saw you Tweeting about it and I dm'd you immediately because this idea of free cities free states whatever it may be a municipality that decides that it wants to sort of separate from a federal
(08:34) government whatever it may be and just sort of inoculate itself from everything and run a private Society is something that's been talked about quite a bit I mean um what's his name begins with an R he's been on Rakim um I'm not familiar yeah he's um I think he's with the students for Liberty and there's a lot of words nowadays there's free cities there's Charter cities there's Bitcoin citadels um people think about declaring independence like that's another idea um maybe like we'll buy an island and things like that yeah there a lot of it
(09:13) it's this whole concept of just distilling it to individuals getting together and saying we think us as a free market can produce the goods and services that the state typically provides and provide for ourselves and seems like Irani is doing it yeah and the the super cool thing about South Africa is that they uh there wasn't some kind of you know Civil War where all of a sudden this you know ethnic group they won and and and uh they were able to carve out this you know giant space for themselves they just basically started doing like
(09:50) doing it and and one of their mantras is man maximum achievable non-compliance and and uh also um state proofing is something they talk a lot about which is basically you try and organize yourself in such a way that um the government has a hard time messing it up because you're just less and less reliant on Government Services yeah the Amish sure a great example of that here what is the Amish oh yeah absolutely yeah yeah they're very State proof absolutely yeah and and so one of the one of the things I think I'm
(10:25) learning is that if you're libertarian inclined mind it's tempting to really boil it down to the individual and think like all right I'm going to sit on my Ranch and do my thing and I'm going to be you know have solar and everything be totally independent but um you know once you start talking about crime for example um it's not that obvious to just be on your lonesome uh it's actually rather impossible like in in South Africa for example um not that the government is actively going out and murdering Farmers but but there's such a
(11:01) lawlessness and there's such a kind of a almost like permissive culture when it comes to that like the criminals basically don't go to jail so uh every week a farmer gets murdered and and tortured and uh a Bo sorry a Bo yeah the bo is the name it's it's that's the original name for it meant farmer originally but now the boore are more like a people yeah they they're the ones who are mostly descendant from people who landed in the 1600s and then there were those are mostly Dutch and then later you had hugenots from France and
(11:35) Portugal I believe and then you know blending together they're called the boor or the africaner yeah yeah and these criminals have pretty sophisticated technology that they're using like signal jackers and they know what they're doing they go in with those those Wi-Fi jackers with the antennas and blackouts well they also have the advantage of numbers right if if you have a gang of five and you're going to attack you know a farmer who's there with his wife and kids you have a lot of it and then also you choose the
(12:06) time of attack like he doesn't know when you're coming um so so one of the other things that they start doing in in South Africa is is on a like almost like Nationwide they have this organization that I visited it's called afre forum and they really try and meet the Afric coners where they're at in terms of the needs and so they start um organizing neighborhood watches for example they have 170 of them and uh they use a lot of modern technology even drones and things like that um to Monitor and then they have a
(12:43) control center where they all the information comes in and so they're able to send private security um to those places and and help out uh so there's a there's a pretty amazing collaboration between the nonprofit which is afre for they have like 215,000 paying members and uh and then the for-profits which are more the private security companies that are on the ground uh providing Services um and and they even have a kind of a VC role in that sense where they you know if there's a need in a certain Community for more security they
(13:18) um they may um like uh invest in a startup a startup private security firm have some equity in that firm and then they're incentives are aligned to to grow together you know not that it's a it's a big source of profit but it does make make it so that incentives are more more aligned and resources can be allocated I mean all this blew my mind I was like wow like you know we're so used to the government being performant and we have been for especially I think in the US in in Europe the decline has has happened uh more quickly and and and
(13:57) things were more brittle already uh 10 20 years ago but uh but yeah you can see how fast things go arai once the government is just like overwhelmed yeah and and I think a lot of that has to do with the justice system right once you get a two-tier justice system where I don't know they want to prosecute uh Speech crimes because they're afraid to lose power and then they're going to they they make it so that carjackers only only get a one-year sentence and and then they get to walk free well then that means the
(14:29) most Hardy harded criminals they just they're roam free even if that's only 1% of the population it's an absolute menus for everybody else yeah it's an asymmetric intolerant minority in the wrong for the wrong reasons yeah yeah and so did you I mean you talked to a bunch of people over the eight days that you were there how did irania evolve to the point that it is today obviously they started in the early 90s and it's been a SLO I don't know if it's a SLO but they've been iterating and building and expanding for
(15:06) for 40 years yeah so one of the names who's who's most often associated with the aparte regime is ver he was uh I believe prime minister he actually was born in the Netherlands and he was a a Statesman for a long time and um and uh he he had a a vision to develop South Africa economically one of the one of the ideas he had was that along along the uh Orange River uh there was going to be lots of uh they're going to make the flow a lot more predictable uh cuz water is very scarce in in that country and so if you build dams uh you know in
(15:47) in reg in um in a very calculated way uh then you create a lot more opportunity for irrigation and and and cities to grow along that River so that was his plan and they already started with some projects and so along one of the dams there was uh the beginning of a development which is basically just some housing for the workers who had been building the dam and that was completely abandoned nobody was living there but you know there was some road type uh structures and also because of the dam the flow of the river becomes very
(16:20) predictable which is great for irrigation and so then they identified that as uh you know the start startup group uh as as a good place to maybe buy some land and and by some fluke they were able to buy it it was actually um not obvious at all that they they they were going to get it but then they did they they were able to buy it um quite cheap at the time and then with I believe just 13 people they started building and one of the first things they did was um build and you can still see it like a a pipeline of water
(16:55) through the city um which would then provide the the houses with you know basic sanitation and things like that I don't even know when they start purifying the water right now it's incredibly portable you can just drink all the water it's it's very very fresh they have two Water Systems so one is just directly from the river for irrigation and those kind of things and then the other is more expensive is the purified kind but so yeah um they told me that the the the actual pipeline was welded together by a couple of 15 and 16
(17:27) year olds you know who who had picked up the skills and and were able to do that over time and uh they had to remove so much um so much so many rocks just to make the the plots viable to put a house down um it's it's uh I saw the boulders they're just enormous Boulders that you have to pull out of the ground before you can you can dig uh the foundations for any kind of building so it's it must have been incredible like the amount of work that they did just very very salt of the earth type work and one of the things that makes Aria unique
(18:02) is that they only use their own labor um and so they don't uh go around and and and get cheap labor from around the country they really uh only the people that that actually are residents there do the work and so I think that's also why they had a slow start but it was very deliberate because they realized that if you if you pull in a lot of that labor well then those people are going to live around where you live and if they have different culture well they're just going to keep voting along you know along the lines of their own culture
(18:33) which is understandable um but so that can jeopardize the the kind of cultural project and or the the the vision that you have for your you your town or your city um and so that's one of the things that really sets Aria apart from other towns in uh South Africa or around the world really where um the two restrictions are uh restriction of Labor and residency so so um it's only open for people who are africanas and uh Protestant Christians um and so basically if you're like an Italian Catholic like you you're
(19:11) not going to get residency there uh you're allowed to visit like it's very open there's a big road riding through town one of the debates that they've been having is like oh should we should we make that a toll road like should we have like a toll booth there cuz we kind of work to maintain the road and things like that um but uh you're free to just anyone can just go on vacation there and and very very hospitable there's lots of little hotels and or I guess they call it host guest houses and restaurants all
(19:41) those kind of things sup freaks this is that you don't want to skip because fold has a great offer for you everyone knows about fold the app where you can earn the most Bitcoin rewards for everyday purchases I did this yesterday me and my wife we use Amazon to buy quite a few things uh and instead of just putting our credit card into Amazon and buying there I put my credit card into fold and buy an Amazon gift card and upload it to Amazon why because I get the credit card points and then I get SATs back yesterday I bought a gift card I made
(20:10) 10,181 SATs uh about $10.50 in Bitcoin and it's the only way to do it if you want to Stack Bitcoin passively make sure you're using fold gift cards fold has a special deal I mentioned it earlier if you're not shopping with fold gift cards you're leaving SATs on the table new you users that sign up to fold are going to get 20,000 SATs in a welcome bonus with their first gift card purchase so don't leave SATs on the table sign up now at fold app.
(20:41) com Marty get those 20,000 STS freaks so freaks this rip of tftc was brought to you by our good friends at bit key bit key makes Bitcoin easy to use and hard to lose it is a hardware wallet that natively embeds into a two three multisig you have one key on the hardware wallet one key on your mobile device and block stores a key in the cloud for you this is an incredible Hardware device for your friends and family or maybe yourself who have Bitcoin on exchanges and have for a long time but haven't taken a step to self- custody because they're worried about
(21:11) the complications of setting up a private public Heir securing that seed phrase setting up a pin setting up a pass phrase again bit key makes it easy to use hard to lose it's the easiest zero to one step your first step to self- custody if you have friends and family on the exchanges who haven't moved it off tell them to pick up a big key go to bit key.
(21:30) org use the key tftc 20 at checkout for 20% off your order that's bit keyworld code tftc 20 and when it comes to the the private Services how do they come to evolve like you said the town's only 3,000 people yeah right so how like do they want to grow the population more are they happy with the size they grow by 15% a year 14 15% a year yeah and and the the growth is restricted mainly by their ability to build more houses right so that that is the so there's a lot of Builders who live in the town um some of them will only live there for
(22:07) one or two years A lot of them will stay longer uh there's programs to help people buy like it's like uh almost interest free loans where you you you get to they structured it so that you basically only pay the equivalent of what you would pay for rent anyway a little bit more more and then over the course of I think 5 years you've financed your own house uh because you've also helped build you know with your own hands you've helped build it and it's a relatively small plot and so but people get enormously motivated by
(22:43) the idea of you know if you're a young family you can actually own your own home it's very motivating and especially in a safe Town cuz that is really a perk it's it's an incredible I mean a perk is a bit too pejorative it's it's um what do you call it it's an incredible feature of that community that it's so safe that kids and you know little girls and whoever can just run around free no matter what time of day it it is just really safe um and that's very rare in South Africa what were the conversations with the citizens though
(23:21) well there were all kinds of people I'm trying to see um some people had lived there for 20 years other people just arrived like a year ago um some people were scoping it out still they they had I talked to several uh Afric coners who actually they had been on vacation for a few times to Arna and they were really starting to think about okay I think I think we want to come and live here and then they were always thinking in terms of their business like you know one guy I talked to he still had um uh a trucking company and he had to be in
(23:54) other parts of the country and so he he was thinking of of uh you know pass passing it on to somebody else starting a new line of business um his his wife was um was very good with um textile and embroidery and things like that so she was thinking about starting a business in town for that um I spoke to a company that produced jewelry cuz they they thought about the the the the general challenge of the town is you know you're in kind of in the middle of the desert so how do you how do you generate economic output
(24:32) right how do you how do you make sure that there is more money going like being accumulated then you have to invest and so these people figured that a jewelry business could be a great thing to do because the the cost to import the raw materials is relatively low there's not not a lot of weight so you can transport it for a long way to get there uh and then they add a lot of value and they can sell online and it can be it can be sold sold anywhere so that business is doing really well um there's a like and so everybody
(25:07) apparently because Society is so brittle there and so volatile um people don't assume that if you have a business that you're going to be operating it for 10 years very often you'll have a business for two years and then your Market just disappears and you have to find another Market or you you have three activities at the same time so that if one diminishes you can focus more on the other ones uh because there's also the problem of um you could call it um Reverse Racism where um there's a lot of quotas from the
(25:41) government uh to to hire uh non-whites um even if if you know if you're an africaner and you have a business in in certain instances you can be forced to hire a certain amount of black people um and then I think also because of the general atmosphere that there there's just there is a kind of an actual racism against uh the idea of you know hiring uh Afric coners who who are European looking and so yeah many people I talked to they said it's it's hard to find jobs um so that's why also they had a lot of over the years the last 30 years a lot
(26:22) of people moved abroad um to you know Canada there's even a a whole bunch of africanas here in Texas uh working on ranches cuz they're very good at you know running a farm and they're very reliable and so they they find work here for example yeah it is C because I've seen a lot of post on Twitter and other social platforms about the Devolution of South Africa talk to some South Africans and it's hard to discern what like how how bad the situation is like it's really bad is it bad yeah I mean the I mean what I what I've
(27:01) heard is is that if you have a good job you can stick by certain rules and if you stick by the rules you you'll be okay like you know uh although everybody knows everybody has been mugged or has been you know a victim of some kind of crime and uh and may know people that have been you know that have been hurt or or even killed you know um it's still you know because there's they they have high trust among themselves there's a lot you can do to to stay safe but it's kind of like if you don't live in Orna and you live in ptor for example or
(27:42) another city you you you go from you know your vehicle to your house which has a big fence around it to another place that has you know barbed wire around it um so there's walls everywhere and uh that was something something somebody told me is that in general in society you always need walls the question is just where are you going to build them right and so with ar they're like well we're going to have a kind of a perimeter around the town because they have a security firm with u 10 people working in it full-time and they they
(28:17) Patrol the area and they keep people safe uh or you don't have that and there's just lawlessness and then you have to build walls everywhere you know from from maybe you need even an armored vehicle or things like that eventually yeah do they have individual gun rates in irania individual gun rates gun yeah so they just abide by all the the laws of South Africa and it's it's another one that is like makes you roll your eyes because obviously the gangs have the the craziest guns and and uh and and other weapons but the laws are very
(28:52) strict in South Africa and so it takes you nine months to get a license to even uh I think I uh I think I don't know if you can carry it I think you can carry it but basically get a license to own a gun like a 9mm and then there's also these laws that if somebody if you shoot someone who entered your home and he's not a direct threat to your life well then you can be prosecuted and get in trouble um so that you know there's it's tough in that sense and that's also why this organization our free forum they they also have a branch
(29:31) where they they have a a Judicial Focus they really actively Sue uh politicians or government institutions or really try to push back to um these these crazy counterproductive destructive regulations really so yeah that also actually gave me hope because that was one of the things that I was like crime is just going rampant in Belgium and and you know people are not allowed to you know but but there's always something that is allowed and you can kind of start with that and then and then push back um private security firms you know
(30:05) they they have people from exmilitary and and they're better better trained so you kind of work with what you have you know this rip was brought to you by great friends at Unchained as bitcoin's role in the Global Financial landscape evolves understanding its potential impact on your wealth becomes increasingly crucial whether we see measured adoption or accelerated hyperbitcoinization being prepared for various scenarios can make the difference between merely participating and truly optimizing your position this
(30:30) is important freaks this is why unchain developed the Bitcoin calculator a sophisticated modeling tool that helps you visualize and prepare for multiple Bitcoin Futures Beyond traditional retirement planning it offers deep insights into how different adoption scenarios could transform your wealth trajectory what sets this tool apart is the integration with the Unchained Ira the only solution that combines the tax advantages of a retirement account with the security of self- custody in any future State maintaining direct control
(30:57) of your keys remains f fundamental to your Bitcoin strategy go explore the potential Futures at unchain dcom tftc Bitcoin is going up make sure you're protecting it the right way make sure you have a good partner that is unchain go to unchain dcom tftc how what is the perception of irania within the rest of South Africa or parts of it apparently early on it was extremely negative um and ironically it wasn't so much you know the the the black majority of the population who was you know who hated it cuz they they didn't really care about
(31:32) it it was so small but it was mainly apparently what you could call their version of the neocons you know the the pro- apar heide people who had been part of this big bureaucracy that had been built up this powerful State and who wanted to stay in power and then because basically if you build if you start building or you're saying like look we think these cities are lost we're going to build this little thing we're going to try and save this one person in the Sick Bay and we're letting these big institutions and and and
(32:10) cities just we're not going to try and resuscitate them and I think that's why a lot of anger came because it's kind of in in their mind it was admitting defeat um and then gradually that change and now I believe they did some poll 80% of the afri coners are very positive about it you know it doesn't mean they'll live there but they they're supportive yeah yeah and having spent time there and talked to a lot of people do you think this model socially scalable right now town of around 3,000 growing at 10% a year you think it reaches scaling limits
(32:43) at any point yeah I mean they're thinking about that a lot because they they don't want to you know ruin what they have they they don't want to grow too fast um I think it's absolutely scalable because you have that cultural um homogeny is that the wordom um yeah and and so it it it it just historically it's been scalable I mean we've we've had cities around Europe where people had a similar culture and they just scaled it and they you know I grew up in a city with literal Moes and and big Gates you know like Bru where I
(33:17) grew up is that's that's I think how how people learned to work through the Middle Ages cuz really the Middle Ages was a period where you didn't have the Roman Legions to you know keep the vandals at Bay and all the roving gangs and all that and so there was lawlessness in Europe and the way to counter that was to kind of start small and gradually build out uh your communities um so yeah I think it's I don't think they're doing anything new I think if anything they're just Reviving an old model that we' we had kind of
(33:53) Forgotten in in in a time where we thought you know a lot of people thought it's the end of History you know everybody's a liberal democracy now we can there's abundance we can always print more money if we need to anyone can get Welfare um anyone can live together always we're fine and uh I think that that idea is or that illusion is collapsing now and so I think in a way we're going back to reality so yeah I think it's I don't see another model to be honest really if if you're thinking about how to how to how do you restore order like you
(34:32) can't control other people like you can't control I don't know like in South Africa there's probably like 90 million people there now because they had because it was the wealthiest country even you know after the 90s there was a lot of wealth remaining in the country and it was by far the wealthiest country in in all of Africa and so they had so much inbound uh migration that um yeah what are you going to do like control 90 million people people no but you can you can choose who you work with it's like it's the voluntarist idea yeah this
(35:06) seems like the pun in tenant a cultural shift is underway globally mhm I mean just look at what Trump signed over the last three days first three days and all day three now but me a lot of the executive orders like the one he signed yesterday essentially gutted affirmative action as put forth by Lyn B Johnson in the' 60s Dei ripped out of government so yeah what is the essence of affirmative action uh you have to hire um um among race uh oh it's like there's quotas basically quas really and that was in place ever since LJ I think so I
(35:46) believe yes I didn't know that um well it's funny right cuz because diversity has been such a buzzword but if you really think about it what is the opposite of diversity it's consensus I would say it's like when you agree there is a consensus and when opinions diverge you have diversity so in a way like maybe we've been in shrining Conflict more than anything else yeah I mean we're see in the UK you can't even talk about wanting to preserve British culture can't um all throughout Europe you're seeing all these right leaning
(36:23) political parties begin to yeah we call them right leaning from here but over there they're label extreme right or far right yeah yeah yeah that's a tough conversation for many people to have because we have I mean um 33 that's been my whole life is this idea of diversity multiculturalism U The Melting Pot makes us stronger and yeah and I mean but but yeah so one of the things I've been realizing myself is that it's easy to be Progressive if you're not in the midst of the actual diversity exploding around you uh like I grew up very sheltered um
(37:04) I traveled a lot like I my parents took me traveling all around Europe uh and and and uh even some Morocco and turkey and places like that but but Brugge was extremely homogeneous as far as its own population and so it's very it's very easy you know to live in that kind of you know how I think that the criticism here in the US is like oh you know the liberal politicians they live on Martha's Vineyard and and and they get to hang out with their their their you know like-minded friends at the Country Club but they don't realize what it's
(37:37) like to all of a sudden have every year 1 percentage uh of the population gets added and they're from completely different cultures you know it's it's it's uh you know and so I've kind of become a little less naive as to what it actually does yeah especially because it's often imposed like people don't vote for it they don't vote for like oh yeah let's let's you know where do we want to import people from it's like oh yeah let's let's vote and and this country and no it's it's it's imposed and it's often a kind of a an
(38:10) attack on Democracy as well because it's it's the more it's the Socialist parties who want more votes and they know that they're going to get their loyalty from the people that they give welfare to uh so in a way they're importing just votes it's very it's very uh it's really quite awful if you think about it like it's not respect like they they they talk a big deal about respecting everybody and respecting all the cultures but when it comes down to it it's just they're importing cattle in their mind it's just going to be cattle
(38:42) that votes the way they want to yeah turn Texas purple and then we're going to turn it blue that's uh yeah yeah yeah no I I mean I experienced this I grew up in Northeast Philadelphia and um for the first 10 years of my life and it's where my parents grew up met they went to the same preschool together and historically the neighborhood I grew up in was Blue Collar Irish Italian Catholics and by the time we left the neighborhood completely changed and if I go back to Philly now and um drive by the church we used to go to mass even said in English
(39:20) anymore it's in Portuguese and Vietnamese and um well that happened in one generation I mean my parents had a pretty homogeneous upbringing but by the time me and my brother were born within 10 years the neighborhood had completely changed and and I don't know if it's the same for you but when I go back to Belgium I I it's it really is painful to see the breakdown of trust you know like for example you go to the supermarket you know you you buy your groceries and then you can't just leave there's actually a gate and you have to
(39:54) scan your ticket and then the gate has to open before can exit it's cuz they have so much theft you know it didn't used to be like that like churches used to be open you used to be able any day of the week you just walk into a church and like you know sit down and have a quiet moment that's that's gone like none of the churches are open anymore uh so there's there's a huge price that comes with this uncertainty because that's really what it is like you everybody operates on a completely different cultural operating system it's
(40:23) not about skin color at all it's really about what people's innate cultural programming is and uh I think probably the combination of the media and Academia and schooling and uh and and it probably was with good intentions but I think we've been we've been sheltered to an extreme as to what the negative consequences are of having mixing together dozens of cultures just like that diametrically opposed cultures right and it's also like you used to be able to go to Paris and be like oh I I go to Paris because I get a certain experience
(41:04) I go to a town in Switzerland I got another experience and now more and more you kind of get a similar experience cuz everything is mixed um you know maybe that's a a petty thing to be like oh well I want my vacation to be you know culturally homogeneous but um but but imagine living there it's like you know you you lived in a certain culture and then all of the sudden it's it's kind of a jungle like for example in the the circle around Brussels I thought this was an interesting metric I've mentioned it a few times already um so brussel's
(41:38) obviously a city it's like 1.5 million people something like that or 1 million kind of like Austin in a way so then there's the the Ring The Ring Around Brussels which is totally rural just you know small towns around Brussels so 10 years ago already 75 language were being spoken in that ring and recently they didn't an update and now it's 104 languages in those rural towns like that's like the Tower of Babel yeah that is just literally the biblical Nightmare how do you get anything done right and come back to
(42:14) like diversity is the the opposite of consensus like how can you reach consensus well yeah and then you could say if you're very cynical you're like wao that's just basmanov cycle and this is the the stage of demoralizing like you just kind of try to create maximum demoralization so that then the next stage you can be like all right the central government is going to come in we're going to plan everything for everyone you know we're the religion now you can worship us um you know we're going to impose the homogenic culture and it's going to
(42:48) be extremely sterilized and depressing yeah I I don't think it's conscious but but it's it's sad because that that's potentially the direction it goes I think Europe the the the the danger is really that it becomes malistic you know that kind of culture I mean it seems like it could easily go that way if things don't things don't change fast and you have I'm not sure if you've been watching clips from the world economic Forum but I caught a couple this morning and it seems like um the people who run the world economic
(43:21) Forum who've been pushing a lot of the policies um that have led to the results that we've been discussing uh seem a bit worried particularly with Trump getting elected oh yeah yeah I saw like they're getting I'm I'm glad they're finally getting worried uh a friend of mine actually just yesterday pointed out like he's like oh it's no coincidence George Soros named his foundation the way he did and I was like what oh open Society yeah yeah I mean like yeah it's it's it's it's it's so interesting to to live in this
(43:58) particular epic it's it's so much is changing um well so much is obviously with the Trump admin coming in and um it seems like we're making a very Stark shift here in the United States and I think there is an avert recognition of um the problems that have Arisen from unfettered immigration uh illegal immigration predominately over the last four years and there is a reaction to that and I'm highly encourage that the US leading the charge against this sort of imposition on uh American values American culture hopefully it can be a signal to the rest
(44:41) of the world like get your [ __ ] together well that's one of the things that's not it's not that clear to me and I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I I do I do agree is some people told me in South Africa that that Trump being elected on the one hand it's it's great for them cuz they actually now they know a bunch of people in the administration it's a lot easier for them to you know uh maybe get some support or something like that but on the other hand it it may lull Americans into this illusion that big government is is is there to
(45:16) fix it for them and you can just you can just kind of vote your way to Freedom rather than really get your hands dirty and build institutions you know uh cuz cuz cuz you and I can to a large extent probably agree on like oh this is American culture but you know if we put all the American residents together or we do a a poll I think the answers would vary a lot as to what is essentially American uh I think that's become more clear that there's these Rifts you know and so hopefully it can become it can stay a a a structured
(45:53) enough umbrella to hold a lot of different cultures that can then May each do their own thing I'm not sure or um but but yeah I I don't think cuz I think the the the the in a way technology is amazing but it also has caused this Global confusion uh and I'm thinking about just Transportation you know uh airplanes cars uh one of one somebody I I heard someone say that you know the the aparti regime or whatever the the the regime that was there before in South Africa they worked so hard at building out all the roads the road infrastructure and uh
(46:38) and inadvertently they actually caused 30 million more people to just flood into the country because it's so easy to drive everywhere um and I I think that's really also something that we didn't expect that to to come together with the technological Revolution right the how cheap it is to tr yeah it's interesting you mention that because I was in a couple of cities in Costa Rica and the roads are terrible over there and you talk to some of the people on the ground they're like no we want to keep the roads terrible it's
(47:09) harder to get to we don't want to to spoil incredible piece of paradise that we have that's right interesting yeah yeah and so we I think yeah we can be like this techno optimism it can really have a lot of unintended consequences uh which which I'm still waking up to um but yeah and I think that it's it's kind of like there this comparison probably with Bitcoin and and cyberspace where all the information wants to be free and in cyberspace everything flows so easily and that makes it all the more important to have
(47:45) cryptography so that you have some domains that there's some boundaries and that you you guard them really closely because otherwise you just get gray goo and it's all over you can't preserve value if you can't preserve boundaries yeah you need the ability to protect what you want to protect in the digital world and filter I think MH like we need good filtering mechanisms for right the information that we receive distill and try to make decisions based off of and I mean bringing this back to the trump adadmin in America and I completely
(48:17) agree with you I think the potential for people to get lulled into this false sense of security that uh the magga Republicans in charge are going to fix the country uh is is real and my hope is that the administration if it accomplishes anything would be that it just provides cover for people to get [ __ ] done and uh engender that Iranian sort of ethos of no we're going to fix this ourselves yeah one of the things they they really think a lot about or or or or try to embody is to they want build before the storm they want to kind of be
(48:59) prepared for when the storm comes and I still think there is so much if you just think in purely economic terms I don't know I don't know if you know all all the banks and all the local governments and all the large governments are going to be able to balance their budget the next couple decades I I really don't think so and then all the all the people like all their savings are so depleted so I I really think that um things are going to there's going to be a breakdown in in certain ways uh and and you see that too where like in
(49:34) Europe for example once it does start break breaking down it feeds upon itself like like the copper thefts you all of a sudden a lot of regular businesses can't do business as usual anymore their cost of operating like jumps up because because of the Damage Done by crime and Etc so it feeds upon itself uh so I don't know if we'll be able to Stave off um a depression maybe the technology it's like oh well you know Ai and Robotics and maybe you know we'll be able to to do some of that but but anyway like I think it's good that we're
(50:11) we're getting a bit more time to build um and uh and and and I don't think you only want to build defensively like you want to build something positive um but but also there is a level of scale that you want to achieve so that you're robust enough as a community to withstand whatever calamities are there and and you know buying a little apartment in Dubai I don't know you know it feels like that seems to be the easy exit now for people that have done well in Bitcoin or crypto it's like oh yeah I'm going to just you know go to a sunny
(50:45) location and and hang out by the pool um I mean that's fine but it's not going to save the West you know it's not going to it's not going to help transport the these values that have been developed over centuries into the future for the next Generations yeah well I guess I get to the question like what do you think if we are being provided cover under this Administration for four years people should be focusing on to prepare for a potential storm because it's coming I mean I obviously I think we think yeah what do you think about sto
(51:21) storm wise um I I mean community family community I mean that's part but you think the storm is still coming yeah there's there's I don't know there's way too much sovereign debt maybe Bitcoin bonds are going to fix the debt or something yeah I mean they could certainly help I think that is a loow hanging fruit step in the right direction it's been incredible to see the legislation at the state level over the last few weeks I believe now we're up to 13 states that have presented legislation about a state level Bitcoin strategic Reserve I think
(51:59) but I really think people need and it's hard to say it's easy to say excuse me harder to do is really bunker down and create a tighten a community of family extended family and like-minded individuals who who care about growing the nuclear nuclear family I think it all comes back to that and I mean that's part of the reason I me we're moving back to the Philadelphia area to be close with our family um at some point later this year and I think that part of that decision um is one we miss our family and to like this
(52:35) this calling to to go back and Y um and to support our family and build out Community there get community is actually very very good in Philadelphia get uh integrated with the community there and and hopefully um support it and and help strengthen it uh right yeah I think individuals at the individual basis like everybody should be saving in Bitcoin be saving in dollars um yeah it gives you optionality um yeah and I I do think it's starting to crystalize more in my mind that just the basic Services of the state you know that that there
(53:20) are all these parallel systems that can be developed to mitigate the breaking down of those uh like electricity is obvious here in Texas with with solar for example um internet you can uh get from the sky nowadays um maybe in other ways as well I mean I know people are working on mesh networks and stuff like that but um but yeah the redundancy I think is is important um also you know in a way the food system has been polluted so that's in a way that also you could attribute that to State failure um so so having
(53:54) your own ways to produce food or or or um acquire food yeah and then and then security I think is also an obvious one and a big one it's a little easier in Texas because of the gun laws um but but probably you know around the Western world it's going to be a huge conversation you know and and and and of course startups are going to emerge and all kinds of Technologies are going to help um but I do think these are things to focus on it's like you know it it doesn't mean the answers are obvious but I do think if you focus on them
(54:28) consistently answers will emerge um because yeah it is true that we can be like oh Bitcoin bonds they going to save the government but that's only if Bitcoin does what we think it does and that means 90% of people they're not going to have any Bitcoin exposure their bond portfolio their real estate portfolio is going to not help them um so yeah that is um I think in general unemployment is baked into the cake because because of the low interest rates the whole economy has been skewed for decades right it's like Google should never have become as
(55:07) big as it is or Facebook or the social media companies or you know it should have been more the agriculture producers the the mining companies the the the basic technology the the the foundation of the economy has been underfunded brutally underfunded for a long time time at the expense of all the service Industries um so yeah I mean that's going to be fixed and uh in that adjustment period we need we need we need robust I mean I think it's going to be good it's like it's like when you're ill you know like when you're ill is
(55:45) like when you focus on the basics it's like okay I got to get rest I got to go on a walk I got to you know um look at my diet so I think in a way will be very healthy to go through this kind of fasting Collective fasting period yeah do you think depression is on the table like economically yeah yeah probably both you know Trump derangement depression and um no I mean yeah yeah I mean it's probably yeah like I I do think so I think it's isn't it kind of already here like all these people they're like they're stunned they're
(56:26) like hey but I I am doing all the things I'm supposed to do I have a job I have a little side job and I can't pay the bills like isn't that kind of the definition of a depression um I don't know maybe it's just the beginning I I really it's weird right because it it's not going to be this that for everybody but for a certain cohort of people yeah things are going to be tough economically and in a way because everybody has to change into the new paradigm it's only once we all change into the new paradigm that we can
(57:04) have a new era of prosperity but if if you if you're behind well I mean that's also where institutions can can do the work right if you build parallel institutions and then and then you have um you see that in or a lot like they're building facilities for you know old people they're they're uh helping out the the newly arrived that don't have any money to try and get a house for them and and the these very basic things um so in a way I think that's also you know if you're doing well it's it's a way to get more people
(57:43) on board with like hey like the world is changing um you can't just I does that make sense like you can't just have no rules yeah I think that's kind of where we're coming from is like ever since I don't know the' 60s 7s like it's been this kind of hedonic idea of like oh we can just do anything there's no rules and there's no consequences well then if all the sub the the subsidies evaporate well then the people who are left that do have some money they're going to be like well yeah we can help you out but there's going to be some
(58:19) rules yeah right yeah now it is um it is a massive problem too try to wrap your head around not I'm not sure if you've seen Sam Hy's um recent monologues that he's he's given no but it touches on a lot of this and it's been interesting he's been pumping Bitcoin as well but yeah this idea of like how do you how do you save yourself and how do you save your community and I think this hunkering down and really in the cross terms getting into the hole and getting back to basics like is is going to be important um and really
(59:00) focusing on the local yeah and also I think also like you know that the the the the scientific study where they found that um conservatives tend to care most about what's close to them and least about what's really far away like global warming and then liberals care very little about what's local and focus almost all their energy on on the world and the big picture um where was I getting with that well I think that possibly the lesson in that is that um focusing on ourselves is is has can really go incredibly far you
(59:43) know even if you like I don't know that somehow the answers will emerge if you like manag to take really good care of your family and think about what your kids needs and those kind of things that from that as you work together with more people like more and more organizations structures are are are are going to emerge I think it it can even be a bit dangerous for us to really speculate about like oh well then we're going to do this and that and um I don't know cuz that's that's been the Trap of the Liberals like you know the
(1:00:19) the globalist story we're going to reshape the world and now we're going to do we're going to do clim what do they call it again when you change the climate uh geoengineer yeah we're going to block the sun it's like dudes how's your family doing like Bill Gates like how's it going there behind the doors well that's what that's like again whether it's here in the United States Europe South Africa wherever me like that history undulates or civilization undulates throughout history and you know these dark periods I mean we've all
(1:00:56) seen the good times create um soft men soft men create Hard Times Hard Times create good men blah blah blah um it seems like we're just at the the trough of of one of these bad times and trying to climb out but I think that's the one thing that really um upsets me about my generation the one coming up below me as well is this this idea that starting a family family is possible because you don't have the economic ability to to provide for it I think that is one key sort of variable when you to figure out how to reverse and create
(1:01:39) this optimism yeah I think the money is the core I mean that's why we focus on bitcoin yeah absolutely if people can save in Bitcoin it just you're like sure I can have more kids cuz my money is going to grow yeah I do I think it's more than just that but I I do agree that it's it's a significant factor um because so many very poor cultures they they have so many kids anyway like they just you know so so they're not constrained by poverty um I did read this interesting article on natalism and it was basically saying
(1:02:19) that if you just look at the kids that survive into adulthoods are the kids that can themselves also have kids that actually the fertility had been pretty constant for centuries I think they were looking at the Netherlands it was like 3 point something 3.2 or something like that and um and then you had a decline interestingly enough in the 1920s which was massive money printing which was the idea that you know you can just party and everything is great and everything is just going up and uh and uh you know women women can just lead their own life
(1:02:58) they don't need to be part of a family they can just kind of become dancers and you know whatnot uh and then uh the 30s came and there was already a recovery in the 30s and then uh in the 40s obviously because the war there was decline but he said that actually the baby boom was a marriage boom I thought that was quite profound and so that it's the longtime pairings that is the key to fertility in society if you have people that get married rather young and they have a longtime relationship then uh you're going to
(1:03:43) have you'll be okay fertility wise and so that um what happened right after the war was just a marriage boom because if you look at the specific fertility within the marriage wasn't even that people didn't have that many kids but there were so many marriages and so I think even more than economically the the challenge is nowadays for young people to find a a mate and to get support for the marriage and I think it's actually one of the side effects probably of this Babylonian confusion that we live in because you go on a dating app here
(1:04:21) in Austin so many options yeah well and and but but what's but maybe because of culture whatever uh I think I could be wrong but I think it's rather challenging to actually find someone of your own culture you know of that like and and it doesn't mean that you can never have a long I I have a you know I'm not married to someone from my own country um so you can definitely bridge that friction but I think it is if you have so many people everyone is having marriages cross-culturally uh it takes years sometimes to get to to get to a place of
(1:04:59) stability and before you can have kids so I think that's maybe under under under under appreciated Factor you know the the the lack of cultural homogeneousness in in in in everyday life nowadays yeah no that's a really important the dating the whole from what I understand from the Gen years of my life it's completely abysmal like that yeah absolutely like you you meet somebody maybe on a date and or two but again the optionality that's provided it's like oh maybe there's something better I'm just going to open
(1:05:35) the app again swipe right a few times and and check it out so has people delaying long-term relationships um I imagine to a degree that that has never existed in human history and then yeah going back to this like Babylonian sort of um theme like like I think whether it's the dating side of what many would deem to be degeneracy or Hedonism however you want to describe it or like I was on a podcast yesterday and I cannot stop after the Trump meme coin thing I cannot stop thinking of when money dies the particular paragraph where they talk
(1:06:14) about like the paper boys and the the the people sweeping the floors in the stock markets they were all quote unquote getting rich and it seems like the the meme coin phenomena is oh yeah very similar sort of degenerate like um empty wealth that that people feel that that is manifesting and and disseminating right now yeah like the the time preference becomes extremely high it's all about today or tomorrow yeah um yeah it is sort of a disease you know that that's running through Society it was very unfortunate to see
(1:06:54) them launch that Meme going oh yeah they didn't even they didn't even get it they they didn't like they they can't even run a proper meme coin scam like in their defense at least they didn't come out and say the US government is partnering with ripple and we're going to you know that that would have been worse I'd rather have just a a plane out scam coin that doesn't pretend to be anything else at least you know it's just a casino thing yeah but yeah I do think it undermines their their kind of moral stature and their their reputation cuz
(1:07:32) cuz as it declines like think about all the Trump fans all the Maga people who bought this now and who think it's somehow whatever like imagine if you have like 90 IQ and you're like oh I got to buy a trump coin I will show some Grace i i i cuz I I have had experience with this in this election um I think they've they're probably surrounded by just pure grifters who are presenting things in a way that aren't as transparent as maybe they should be and what you were just describing like I had to explain this to to rfk's team
(1:08:07) they they launched like a an RFK Salon coin at some point like when he was still in the race oh oh and uh the one of the individuals from his team reached out like will you will you post this like and help us get some uh energy around this meme Quest I was like No And this is a terrible idea highly advise against this and they had no concept they were like why why advise against this like it's a great way to monetize Bobby's brand it's like well if he doesn't leave the El win the election like that Meme coin's definitely going
(1:08:42) to zero I bet we could look up the price that's probably not trading very well right now and you have a bunch of Bobby Kennedy supporters that don't understand the Dynamics of this market and I don't think you guys understand it either and they're going to buy this coin thinking it's going to ACR in value uh if he doesn't win the race the attention around him and therefore this coin is going to diminish significantly and you're going to have a bunch of Bobby Kennedy supporters holding fat bags of 99% losses these people they never like
(1:09:17) never occurred to them that this could happen yeah you're that you're alienating your own base yeah and uh yeah did you see that thread Loi posted like a a long thread on kind of like oh well let's assume okay let's just accept that trumpcoin is here um Trump coin is here well I forget the details but one of the things he said was it's sort of like a lottery it's sort of you know it's it's a zero sum game Lottery it's like well Lottery is different because everybody has an equal chance of winning and there's no
(1:09:52) Advantage for the Insiders whereas obviously there is one if you launch a coin massive advantage to the Insiders and the people who knew early on cuz they're going to they're going to buy a lot and then they'll opportunistically sell out um it's it's so different so um yeah not a good move at least at least he's kind of rug pulling somebody tweeted that it's his way to flex and be like uh if you're going to do this I'm going to show you who boss I'm the biggest and nobody's going to surpass Trump coin I don't
(1:10:30) think you think in the meme world no I mean for at least maybe not for the next four years but no is like I I tweeted this out it's like a signal of and this what I said yesterday on this podcast like Trump meme coin launch is like a signal of degenerate acceleration and I think that going back to this cover excuse me that potentially be provided for by this Administration it seems like all bets are off the table like you can just do whatever you want now I think that was a signal and that launch was just like all right we're
(1:11:05) just going to go for it complete degenerate yeah acceleration hopefully that also means like Bitcoin Innovation can flourish people can mess around with chamy and mints and begin implementing them and we can begin really getting um Innovative and creative on the privacy and payment side of things and not have to worry about served to Wells notice or having the doj come after you for being a money service businesses whatever it may be um and it it's like all right like I'm interested to get your thoughts like if
(1:11:41) that is the the cost of getting the ability to focus and build out Bitcoin like is it worth it compared to cala Cala yeah I think so I think the the Kamala Cho factor is crazy I mean now we have lawlessness but in a different way um you know it's like now scammers are not going to go to jail whereas under Kamala honest people are going to go to jail and uh that's just awful but yeah but yeah I do I have worried about that too where so anybody can pump it up now like it's it's legal to just do pump and nums cuz the
(1:12:22) president did it yeah there are like other also e ethereum that's to say they're feeling free all of a sudden to say oh yeah it is centralized we're in charge whereas under Gensler they're always like being weasly and like oh no we're so decentralized yeah but even like ethereums what are your thoughts on the state of ethereum right now I feel like they're they're dying they're caught 10 it's been 10 years yeah I don't I don't think they're in a good State ethereum denda EST ethereum must be destroyed I mean it's
(1:12:57) not that project but the idea of you know a grift where you can have a new narrative every year and a new story to pump your bags and you keep lying like the lies they've been lying for 10 years and the market is showing that there the market is sick of it it's losing against Bitcoin big time it's the the secular trend has been broken for one year now against Bitcoin it's it's over I really I think it's over yeah that's the sort of respectable part of meme coins is just over recognition that this is just pure
(1:13:33) gambling where ethereum had this like facade of oh we're legitimately going to build a world computer and yeah enable uh the decentralized future of Defi and web 3.0 and it's interesting also how they rode that woke wave for nine years right they really Metalica is quite brilliant at it like finding what is it in the zeit gu that he could like latch on to and be like Oh but we do that you know we we we're exemplary examples of that and now the narrative is broken and he knows like he's the soy boy like he can't just transform
(1:14:12) into open source decentralized libertarian like he no it's over no he explicitly said that in the Tweet like if you think this means we're going to turn into like a b loving uh right-wing raah it's not happening it's not happening I'm Char I'm but it shows that he's aware right he's aware of the tension yeah if I were him I would just fade I think he's probably trying to take my money and fade fade into the background so many people lost their shirts on ethereum I mean it's it's not even happened yet I think it's the
(1:14:48) biggest damage is still to happen as it keeps declining yeah is Steelman here people are dropping doties from their from their X handles is that a is that a a bottom signal maybe I mean like they're barely getting any other than vitalic nobody's getting engagement who's tweeting about ethereum I I just think it's it's dead the only thing is that there's apparently a lot of startups that have built their technology to fit exactly on the ethereum virtual machine but it seems that the whole machine could be ported to bitcoin and so you know the
(1:15:35) the there the guys at spider chain are working on that and maybe even want that machine though that's another I'm very convicted in the idea that the whole defi meme is just a siren Call the actual signal is the Bitcoin isation of Finance where you have like we were describing there massive debt problem both on the public and private side of of the market globally and you essentially need to restructure the financial system with better collateral and instead of creating these obscure complex def systems with Bridges and
(1:16:16) different tokens and um treasury Management systems and Dows and uh liquidity pools whatever it may be it's like just go left side of the bell curve complete caveman like oh no maybe we just need to send Bitcoin the other way into the financial system and help recapitalize a woefully systemically fragile credit system but Marty Zeppelins could change the world and we have so many Zeppelin Engineers already like what are you talking about it's not because one of them burns down that we got to stop doing it yeah but I mean at
(1:16:53) 10:31 we have a lot of these conversations with potential investors and a lot of that class is still stuck on this like defi 3.0 it's like I think it's I think it's a siren call it it's yeah it's also like cart before the horse it's like well you need something solid you need Bedrock before you can build on it it's like oh yeah but we have this amazing structure and you're like okay where did you build it it's like oh yeah out there in the swamp it's like all right well it's going to sink eventually unless you
(1:17:26) you do like Venice and you figure out how to build in the swamp but I don't think ethereum has done that at all no they they like they've hard forked 17 times like that in to me that's just that's enough yeah to be like it's a non-starter yeah 17 hard Forks what um what are your thoughts on the state of the Bitcoin market right now we're we're oh yeah 105 105 we below low we this is like the lowest this is the worst POS having performance that bitcoin's had believe it or not since it launched yeah my feeling is
(1:18:07) that it's because people have felt that Global markets are overheated uh investors are a bit wory about global markets um interest rates are going up these government bonds are you know really starting to fade and and if you look at commodity charts as well they're kind of undecided like are we going to go higher or are we going to really have a big pullback and so I feel that's what's holding investors back mainly so if we had a big crash then they could be like all right now we have a bottom in Bitcoin like K blam like then we'd we'd
(1:18:45) go up hard um but yeah I do think it's it's gonna I still think it's going to be an incredible bull market I really really think so um because there is so much lawlessness and uncertainty and Decay and and it's like then then you appreciate even more the thing that always every 10 minutes new block that is so reliable uh that is absolutely scarce so yeah I I really think it's going to be a big big big big rally um but I think people want to know like is are we going to hypercharge inflation in this you know the next four years is is Trump
(1:19:27) going to print like crazy or is there going to be some kind of Crash and then we'll deal with that have you been following uh the remarks of Treasury secretary Scott bent or I don't think officially what does he say I mean he's I've done a couple episodes of people who have been studying his public remarks over the last 12 to 18 months and uh you know his history um not really he helped Soros do the British pound trade so he helped speculative attack the pound he did a big Yen trade during the uh the Asian crisis and the
(1:20:06) consensus of people who have been studying his work of the course of his career and his comments more recently is that he if you are looking for uh to thread a needle on the the level of global monetary reset like he's the man for the job like he understands debt markets and currency markets better than most um and he has publicly stated within the last year that he thinks we need like a Breton Woods 2.
(1:20:41) 0 like monetary reset um what would that look like I don't know um like maybe like a coming to the table like look this Global death Situation's out of control haircuts haircuts jubilees whatever you want to call them yeah um in a resetting and maybe I don't think he's as up the curve on the Bitcoin thesis and uh as particularly as a reserve asset as many of us would like him to be but I think if the right people got in his ear potentially be like all right we're going to have to remonetized asset that exists right yeah yeah I mean that seems good
(1:21:31) for Bitcoin if if if that's part of the story I think Europe is toast so the euro is still a pretty big currency so it' be interesting to see if if that one gets a big knock knock down it has to it's done and it was foretold when the Euro Zone European union and the euro launched yeah but now it's starting to get very real because if you know IFD of course in in the in poly Market the betting markets they're not really getting a lot of chance to win but but if Germany were to pull out for example you know that's just so I feel Europe is
(1:22:13) going to break up somehow that means the Euro I mean probably the dollar would get stronger temporarily do you think the consensus among the citizens of Europe is that a breakups NE necessary or do you think most want to keep together people probably afraid but also once once once you heard enough only like a 30 40 year experience or experiment right yeah it's very young I remember in elementary school they were talking about oh the Euro gets introduced and and it was Belgium like I was at the heart of it you know and and so it's very young
(1:22:48) maybe yeah of course the young people don't remember but no the Euro Euro Zone the you so I think that would also obviously be good for Bitcoin because it's it's it's kind of showing the inherent fragility and failure of the Fiat system it's different than like I don't know the Turkish Lera doing badly if it's really Europe yeah but yeah short term it's hard um it's hard to kind of know what's what's going on I do I do think the US is is going to probably pull through because of the Doge you know if they cut a lot of spending that would
(1:23:32) really make businesses very excited the cut spending and I mean partly confirmed part rumor but I mean Trump announced it on day one about this external Revenue Service obviously tariffs have been a big part of his platform leading up to him coming into office but the rumor from somewhat credible sources been he's like literally thinking about eliminating federal income tax that would be amazing if you're does that mean eliminating all the IRS or not is there more to the IRS and that I don't know yeah yeah it's in that direction it
(1:24:17) would be incredible yeah that's how cities used to operate right you wouldn't really tax what's going on inside you just Levy a toll on what comes in and goes out yeah and that that encourages local entrepreneurs to to just add a lot of value um and think about the windfall of cash that would have for American citizens at yeah very yeah but it's still a presidential system right so I don't know how long the Republicans can kind of stay in control is it going to be eight years yeah maybe Vans could win the next one
(1:24:56) yeah I guess it's too early to tell yeah until on day three maybe yeah but yeah I mean I think Bitcoin is just it'll be weird though to to talk back next time and be like oh it's 300,000 what do you think what but yeah I think it will I think we'll see 400 probably this cycle I think so yeah what do you think I think we go higher than that yeah yeah I guess it's highly dependent on the global macro situation do we go into a depression may be harder for Bitcoin to get that high if not all systems go turn the money printer back on who knows
(1:25:37) that's the other thing just looking at going back to what we were discussing when we started this part of the conversation like can they actually fix it with Doge and all this stuff I think it is inarguably a net a net positive but you look at the the liquidity boogey men that are sitting behind the scenes like you look at commercial mortgage back security mhm and the delinquency rates of the underlying Comm commercial real estate mortgages they're up at like 2009 levels 11% um that's the other one right the
(1:26:11) real estate market I mean look at Austin all these uh all these cranes in the sky and I know like the Facebook building that they were building like Facebook pulled out of that like how much inventory is coming online how how much of that's actually going to be filled here yep how much of that debt was taken out in the last two years oh yeah yeah I think prices are down residential 15% or something from the i s 25 earlier this year yeah whoa 25 from the peak yeah wow she has something to say Logan Logan's breathing deeply over
(1:26:52) there part about Austin real State prices yeah I guess we'll find out Paradigm shifts absolutely the idea of of a a house being a store of value I think that's at least it it will still be but not in the places that we're used to looking like you know La New York that's I mean that could be a black one you have $180 billion of insurance claims that are about to flood the people that St those houses in La like is that a Black Swan systemic RIS like do they have liity they going to need a bailout Could That Be The
(1:27:32) Catalyst for the next big print T yeah I do have a hard time seeing Trump as the big austere president I just feel like he likes to he likes to kind of Be Santa Claus you know he likes to give people what they want and he's been a real estate guy so he he kind of you know he's born and raised in in in cheap money so I think I think higher inflation is really coming the second wave like we had that first big wave after covid it's already beginning to rear its head again yeah yeah I mean I've been stunned that
(1:28:07) gas has been so cheap for so long I keep saying like this is the last time we'll see it below three and then it keeps dipping we're like 250 a gallon right now yeah yeah take that yep all right are we optimistic or pessimistic combination of I think it's incredibly special to be alive today because yes bad things are happening but also amazing things are happening at the same time and that's not doesn't happen very often that that so much change happens at the same time and you get to choose which story you're part of
(1:28:49) so I'm very glad to be alive now yeah choose the optimistic timeline mm adopt Bitcoin peace and love freaks
