podcasts
George Bodine highlights Bitcoin’s path to $1,000,000, fueled by nation-state adoption, mining wars, and economic instability.
Bitcoin’s path to a $1,000,000 valuation is being driven by a global race among nation-states to accumulate and mine it, with Belarus and Russia openly adopting Bitcoin for trade while the U.S. follows cautiously. George Bodine highlights the Lightning Network’s growing efficiency and the fierce competition between stablecoins, where Tether is gaining dominance despite regulatory scrutiny. Drawing from his background as a former Top Gun adversary pilot and commercial airline captain, Bodine shares his deep dive into financial research, which exposed the flaws of traditional markets and solidified his conviction in Bitcoin as the ultimate store of value. On the macroeconomic front, he examines the Trump administration’s efforts to reset the U.S. economy through spending cuts and lower Treasury yields while global debt markets, particularly in Japan and Europe, teeter on instability. As uncertainty looms, Bodine sees Bitcoin as the ultimate hedge, urging individuals to recognize its long-term value through the power of compound interest and generational wealth creation.
George Bodine presents Bitcoin as more than just an investment—it is a financial revolution unfolding amid macroeconomic instability, nation-state mining wars, and the rapid evolution of Bitcoin’s infrastructure. He emphasizes the urgency of adoption, as governments and institutions increasingly integrate Bitcoin into their financial strategies. With stablecoin battles and shifting regulations shaping the landscape, those who recognize Bitcoin’s potential now stand to benefit immensely. As the global economy faces uncertainty, Bitcoin offers stability and self-sovereignty, making its rise to a global standard not a matter of if, but when.
0:00 - Intro
0:45 - George's bitcoin story
10:31 - Feeling late
17:46 - Fold & Bitkey
19:28 - How 70s inflation felt
23:04 - Unchained Announcement
23:35 - Little guys can now compete with the chaos
28:59 - Compound interest and generational wealth
39:45 - Navy tangent
43:30 - Bitcoin is a beast
55:52 - Smart stacking - "pay me in bitcoin"
1:01:47 - Sovereign Bitcoin funds
1:11:47 - Overton shift - stablecoins
1:20:12 - Lightning and Taproot assets
1:26:26 - Hyperbitcoinization
(00:00) there's no doubt in my mind that bitcoin's going to a million of coins the nation states are on noticed you saw Belarus they're going to start mining Bitcoin their leader he clearly said the United States is going to start doing this the Russian finance minister right on there he said we have made global trade settlement now in Bitcoin we still have an opportunity to front run these people lightning is changing it's getting more efficient less channels and the bigger nodes are carrying most of the traffic there's a big battle going
(00:27) on right now in Washington over stable coins I think tether is going to try to be a really big part of that new tap rout assets protocol and it's probably going to happen and we're going to see a major change going forward get stack like a smart psychopath doing very well a little tired South by Southwest here in Austin so the the city's bumbling as I was mentioning in DMS that the traffic is is heavy but all things considered doing well it seems like the world is a bit chaotic right now but trying to find Zen
(01:01) I love that that could be the theme of this uh podcast is chaos because that's what we've got here it's incredible it it really is it's astonishing how quickly things are accelerating and before we hop into the meat of the conversation I know you were uh talking about the the sort of intersection of the power law viruses and Bitcoin and DMS a few weeks ago and and your thoughts on the similarities between those three themes and those topics but before we jump into that one we get a little background on yourself
(01:38) George how you came to bitcoin it seems like you uh got almost uh it became like a monk to study Bitcoin and really understand it and jumped full bore into into what yeah that is a funny story isn't it I mean I don't quite understand why that happened I I just uh you know it's funny because my background is just all over the damn place and I don't have a degree in marketing I mean I I didn't even get through high school and um I'm lucky I it took me two times to go back to college just to graduate and uh but
(02:13) you know I follow really smart people and I read like a son of a [ __ ] I mean I just am uh I'm plugged into a study I I I mean I don't know how many hours I must I must be north of I bet I'm approaching 3,000 hours right now in study of Bitcoin and I found out when I got down here at the rabbit hole it really doesn't end it just keeps going in fact you never get out of the rabbit hole you really don't as somebody's been in it for almost 12 years now there's so many different rabbit holes to fall down it's not even one rabbit hole it's
(02:49) multiple rabbit holes monetary economics geopolitical incentives energy distributed systems soft software layered Solutions it's it's a deep Rabbit Hole of many rabbit holes I agree so what what was the first impetus that pushed you to really explore Bitcoin and take the time to spend thousands of hours studying you know I've always been uh I've been that guy that's been in charge of my finances for years uh I went through a you know I got hired by Delta when I got out the Navy I uh I was flying as a Top Gun adversary
(03:33) pilot at the time and I got out of the there and I got into Delta and flew all over the world uh including as a captain International flying everything but you know um they went through a bankruptcy in 2005 I think it was and you know I I suddenly realized that I was in charge of my finances and so I just started studying everything about finance and how to invest how to store my wealth you know it's funny but um you know as you do that and you become more aware of the system uh you you kind of get disenfranchised or you
(04:11) don't feel like you're really part of the financial uh system you know you realize that you're an outsider and you're never going to be close to the money source and it's very frustrating I mean just you're on a constant hamster wheel you know everybody and their mother's working I mean you'd put your kids out to work as some people would if they could because we're all just trying to stay with our head above water and my goal was to increase my wealth but at some time you know you know you look at the screen you can tell I'm a boomer at
(04:37) some point you want to store wealth you want to keep that wealth across time and space that's really tough to do and you know I uh I heard about Bitcoin in 2012 I think it was and I remember and you know the thing is I don't know why I was like this I mean I just dismissed it I thought it was just so stupid and you know at the time I was building computers I mean really building them like from all the hardware you know you have to flash the BIOS board and you know put the little pins in the right direction to get the electricity to flow
(05:08) through the circuits and you know I was just having a blast doing that I mean I was very I mean was into technology and stuff but man I just did not get it and I didn't get it even in 2017 I was reexposed to it and U I don't know why that is you know some people just I think maybe it was my age or maybe it was just my background but finally uh in early 2020 it was another article by ly Alden that kind of pequ my curiosity and and once I started going down there I I bought Bitcoin and you know what's funny is I bought Bitcoin and and I held
(05:43) it for a little while it went way up and uh I sold it you know I mean I just couldn't handle the volatility and so I sold the Bitcoin and I I tell people I've never sold Bitcoin but that's not true I mean I did and then you know I've mentioned this before I was sitting like this I was just staring at the the screen like two days later and I remember thinking you know why the [ __ ] did I sell that uh Bitcoin I what I don't understand and once I realized that I didn't know what I held I mean I just started and it's never stopped I
(06:13) mean I'm I'm reading this morning I was reading about you know tether Circle the battle that's going on in Washington right now behind the scenes that a lot of bitcoiners don't really know about um you know just things like this it never stops and I'm having the best time of my life and you know look at me now I've got all my wealth in Bitcoin I mean everything and so you know I'm just sitting here I'm very relaxed I know what I hold I don't really give a [ __ ] what goes on you know the FED can meet all they want I really don't care what
(06:42) they do anymore I mean I'm I'm just once you understand Bitcoin it's like the royal flush you just push your chips in I've got mine in there I'm very relaxed I'm having a great time I'm in the studio today as you can see in fact if you look over my window there or my shoulder in the back there you can see that I'm mining bit coin right now Marty while we're talking it's in that painting back there the what was it norian do uh Nakamoto Dorian Nakamoto exactly the CEO of Bitcoin what what was the do you remember do you have a moment we're
(07:19) getting we're getting back to old school tftc where Tales from the Crypt the first 200 episodes for were people's uh Bitcoin stories but um for the first time in a while I'm genuinely curious what was was there one piece of content or one concept relating to bitcoin that once you discovered it or read it was the aha moment like oh this is this is completely different this is something I feel confident pushing all of my chips into well yeah that's a good question because uh that kind of touches on the heart of some of of what what we should
(07:56) discuss in life because you know what this cycle is to me you know how every cycle seems like it has a theme for me this cycle seems like I'm late I'm late to bitcoin um uh you know the meme coins the gambling there's a psyche to this uh this cycle that's really weird but it kind of almost brought me back to what it was like uh you know I I didn't go all in at first you know I'm just like the typical Bitcoin or you buy some then you buy some more you buy some more you buy and then next thing you know you're
(08:28) buying on the way up that you're buing on the way down but my problem was that uh you know I put a lot of my wealth into Bitcoin by the time uh we went through the last cycle in 22 and I'm sure you are familiar with the uh that year in the crypto winner it was a very really difficult time and I uh I lost confidence I mean at one point you know I mean I was down on paper like 50 60% and uh you know I I I I come from kind of a I don't know maybe old school mentality but you know my my wife just I mean she just treats me like a king I
(09:08) mean like I'm unbelievable I mean I am the master of our house and the master of many things and I remember thinking boy you know she's put a lot of faith in me and a lot of trust and you know I had her account into Bitcoin too you know I was managing that and uh I just I kept finding myself I was laying awake I'm sure you've done this too you know I was 3:00 the morning I'm staring at the ceiling and in bed going man this I don't know about this and it seemed like that week was the pivot for me and the reason I say that is I I started you
(09:43) know we talked about this already I just started studying more I went back to all the old po podcasts I reread books like safe's books uh broken money again I mean I just read everything that I could uh and I got deeper into it and you know funny thing is while I was in this crisis mode and I was struggling is when Bitcoin crashed you remember it went down it was bouncing around down there 19 20,000 for a long time and then it crash went down to like 16 something and you know what I did Marty I I bought like a drunken sailor and and at that
(10:17) point I just I kept buying I was all in after a while I mean I have no you know no dry powder I mean I I've got all the Bitcoin in the world that I need but sometimes you know it's hard to spend money on a sandwich but I'm I'm really happy right now yeah it's I it's funny you mentioned going through the typical cycles of a bitcoiners hero's journey if you will and one of them that you mentioned and maybe it wasn't back in the 2020 to 2022 area but you feel it now is the feeling of oh I'm late because even in
(10:53) 2013 2017 2021 like that that feeling of oh my gosh maybe I'm not late but I'm missing out and stack enough always Creeps in yeah exactly I think the difference though on this the reason I mentioned on this cycle I think the difference Marty is that uh it's the unit by it's the price point people you know I actually had this happen uh on the deck of my porch not long ago uh with one of the kids you know and and I remember talking to her and she said well she asked me the price and I said well it's up to 100,000 now and she said I I'm late I'm
(11:32) I'm too late now and you know I haven't done these uh podcast and one of the reasons I'm doing them now is because I just think we have a very narrow window here for people to get this right and to understand where bitcoin's going because th this is this is just the beginning you know I don't know if you've looked at the 2016 17th cycle and compared it to this one if you go from the trough to the peak on those Cycles you lay them over the top of each other they're very close I mean I won't say they're a mirror but they're pretty
(12:09) damn close and I I think you probably remember you know the end of 16 it was like 900 and something a coin that that next year it ended it went up almost to 20 grand now I'm not saying we're going to have a 20x or a 10x in this cycle but uh but what's weird is that on this cycle everything is so volatile everything's so uncertain right now I really don't know where we're going in this next cycle my base case I don't know about you but my base case was around 225 to 285 just using past models I follow a lot of models I I do a
(12:45) lot of onchain and uh I really thought that would be the case but I don't I don't know where it's going right now do you have any idea yourself I mean do you have a feel for it no I don't I were mentioning the staring at the ceiling nights that that many bit winners had I had a few of those in the last couple weeks just looking just looking back to the 12 years I've been in the space and trying to compare what's happening outside of Bitcoin to any other period of time throughout my holding experience it is very unique
(13:23) obviously we had co uh Co was the big Big Driver 2017 that that whole that whole run was pure retail speculative fervor um 2020 covid big print or the first big print and this time around particularly like in the last 24 hours looking at what's happened in European markets with the saber rattling over there and their bond yield screaming and it looks like they're going to be in a pretty precarious situation you have the Japanese Yen um having a situation right now and then here in the US we're going through this
(14:03) extremely volatile period of tectonic shifts and policy and how we're posturing internally and externally to the world and Bitcoin has been marketed as this long-term um sort of uncorrelated asset um when just opposed to traditional markets and that was another big meme particularly around 2020 is B has never gone through a true recession or even a depression many people throughout the last century haven't gone through a depression but I think one can make the case that things are not all in well in the global economy and that to your
(14:44) point like I don't know what's going to happen is is Bitcoin perceived as this riskof flight to safy safety asset this cycle I could certainly see it materializing but I could also see um see General turmoil in global markets um sort of suppress the price for a little bit Yeah I you know that's the thing anybody that's trying to time the market or trade right now I I don't know what to tell you except pull your head out of your ass uh yeah you know a funny story is uh about that is when I was in the Navy flying uh I was flying f-18s on the
(15:22) carrier deck and you know on the carrier there's no you're not there's no fooling around here I mean you got to be really alert to what you're doing I mean and I'm an officer in My Little My jet you know I'm on the deck there and I might think I'm really something but you know those enlisted troops down there if you stop if you stop paying attention for a minute you start like gazing off or you let your attention drift or you don't follow one of their signals when they're telling you to move your nose wheel or
(15:50) something they're going to come up to you and they're going to go like this and anybody that's not watching what I did is I just put my fist up against my palm and pulled it out quick and what they're telling you these enlisted troops down there is pull your head out of your ass lieutenant and start looking around these people that are that are even in the meme coins right now that are trying to score so that they can have enough bit or enough money for a big Bitcoin stock you know that's not how this works I mean it's just not you've got to put
(16:20) the work in you got to hunker down you know understand what you own grab it you got to hold on to it like a son of a [ __ ] and and you can't lose lose it there's only three things it's those three things that's all you have to do I was talking to some uh I was at an art gallery I just had a show not long ago down in Sarasota an art show and um I haven't had one of those in a long time it was a great show but these three young guys show up three of them all together and the owner knew knew these guys and one of them said well you know
(16:52) they're also into like crypto or some other crap he said and so right there in the gallery and it was full of customers I said oh my my God [ __ ] coiners are in here and they looked around at me these kids so I got talking to them and you know what that was their profile they you know they had some Bitcoin that they had like almost like a savings if you will and one of them said I'm not touching that but their whole mindset their whole thought process was all about this score that and they were doing you know shitcoin trading and
(17:24) stuff to score and it was so that and one of them told me this specifically I want to score big now so that I can get a big Bitcoin stack I want to you know well you don't teleport yourself to an OG I mean you have to work at it it it takes work and uh that's turning into a rant so I'll stop for a minute Su freaks do you have a credit card are you getting cash back or Airline points or points for some other service guess what those are shitcoins you want to be stacking Bitcoin I some ground break breaking news for you the team at fold
(18:01) has finally released the Bitcoin rewards credit card they have a wait list going to be Distributing the cards later this year so you want to get on the weit list full Plus members are going to get unlimited 2% Bitcoin back on this credit card if you get on the weight list they're up to $200,000 in prizes they're going to be given out so get on it as quickly as possible go to if you're on the weit list you have the potential to win some of the prizes check it out sup freaks this rip of tftc was brought to you by our good friends
(18:37) at bit key bit key makes Bitcoin easy to use and hard to lose it is a hardware wallet that natively embeds into a two3 multisig you have one key on the hardware wallet one key on your mobile device and block stores a key in the cloud for you this is an incredible Hardware device for your friends and family or maybe yourself who have Bitcoin on exchanges and have for a long time but haven't taken the step to self- custody cuz they're worried about the complications of setting up a private public Heir securing that seed phrase
(19:07) setting up a pin setting up a pass phrase again bit key makes it easy to use hard to lose it's the easiest 0o to one step your first step to self- custody if you have friends and family on the exchanges who haven't moved it off tell them to pick up a big key go to big keyworld use the key tftc 20 at checkout for 20% off your order that's bit keyworld code tfc2 it's funny a lot of the meme coin fervor particularly this cycle reminds me of pages from when money dies and the fervor during the wmar Republic hyperinflation and everybody
(19:44) was trading stocks and everybody thought they were rich but they all ended up broke boy that is that is just a yeah that's a great way to look at it exactly we're in that hysteria stage and you know when you look at the wymer Republic you know there it it was four marks to the dollar four marks to the dollar in 2013 10 years later it was like 600 billion or something and then it went to trillions before it totally collapsed and you know we talk about gresham's law all the time but most people don't know there's another law a counterpart to
(20:17) that it's called the's law Albert the and I think he wrote this in the maybe the early 1800s and basically what it says is that when money really dies just like you mentioned in the book when money really dies guess what it's good money that's left it's good money that drives out bad money because nobody is going to take it anymore you know you look at Argentina um they had like I think it was 125% inflation last year you can't live in a world like that you know again you can see that I'm older well I live through inflation in this I
(20:51) was there in the late 70s early ' 80s I mean I got to see it up close and personal and it's an ugly event and that was not that bad I mean interest rates got really high but it wasn't insurmountable I mean you could still live but it changed people the mindsets were very different then could you dive into that a little bit what from what you recall you mentioned it got really bad some concrete examples so here's the thing okay uh you know gas I the lowest I ever paid get for gas was like maybe 19 cents a gallon and we talk about the oil
(21:28) crisis but and what happened was oil just shot up and I mean you know think about paying 19 cents and then a year latting later paying like $2 a gallon and rationing and people in line and hoarding you know people with gas tanks now part of that whole transition was because of our move to the Petro Dollar in the background you know by that time 73 Kissinger he was on the road he was gathering the Nations together and we had to reval if we were going to make oil the new backing of the dollar we had to revalue it and we had to inflate it and they did
(22:08) but it was also it's everything from uh like you'd get a paycheck you know as a young man I'd get a paycheck first thing I'd do is I'd get gas because I never knew when the hell it was going to be gone or you know if it was going to be like a lot more expensive and you know as a young kid I was flipping burgers so i' I'd get a paycheck I'd get gas right away and if you wanted to buy something you just bought it it I mean that idea of savings started to just drift now you know a lot of people made money in those
(22:35) days by purchasing long-term bonds um and and it paid off for them but for all the rest of us out there and housing and transportation as as everything began to inflate around us it changed your attitude about money and you know there's a lot of difference between money and currency but it just it made it like a really difficult time and I I hope that we don't ever see you know those levels of inflation again but I I don't know Su freaks Bitcoin is the ultimate scarce asset joined Bitcoin macro expert Nick batia at a live online
(23:10) event on March 17th for death taxes and 21 million learn how to Shield your wealth leverage tax advantaged accounts and secure your Bitcoin for future Generations your financial adviser accountant or attorney might not be up to speed on bitcoin so invite them to join too register now at unchain / tftc that's unchain docc March 17th be there again going back to staring at the ceiling moments in the last couple weeks that's the big question in my mind does inflation reappear and I think in the last 24 hours I think there was a
(23:47) period of time post inauguration Trump's making all these moves obviously tariffs could be inflationary but their doge is trying to cut spending and um that could that could cut into the economy lead to a deflationary crisis but then you look at what's going over in Europe and there you starkly reminded that there are so many variables at play in the global economy if you find yourself focusing on one aspect or one variable or a couple variables and trying to draw a conclusion of forward-looking um guidance if you will from those
(24:26) variables inevitably some other variable and some other part of the world pops up and says hey Leroy Jenkins like I know you're thinking about this but now the Japanese yield curves blowing out the European Yi curs are blowing out and you have to deal with this yeah it it's a you know if we just stay focus if we just zoom out here and look at you know look at what dalu said here you know less than two weeks ago I mean all roads lead to inflation every you know and and this is you know I get push back from some bitcoiners but I follow this guy I
(24:59) mean he's smart and you know I've read some of his books I mean he he again I'm an 0 IQ pleb I am just basically a working stiff I've worked all my life you know I've driven cabs at night in Denver i' I've worked underground deep underground oil fields I was a oil field worker and a cop and you know all these are just jobs you know you you go out there you collect a paycheck you know I'm not a builder like like yourself I mean you you know there are a lot of people in here that are very smart and they do things and so I just follow them
(25:28) and I read what they say and I listen and uh I may not agree with some of the things but you know what just listen to what they're saying and I mean he's painting a pretty clear picture what's he holding look at look at Ricardo Selena this this week he just told us the guy this is a multi-billionaire where's he got his wealth he's got 70% of his wealth in Bitcoin imagine that you know here's another smart Okay Howard lutnick caner Fitz Jil Gerald where do they have 40% of all their Holdings right now one company micro
(26:02) strategy now strategy so these are smart people and what they're telling me is that we may be in a period of very very volatile with sticky inflation that's going to come back and forth and that at some point point we are going to see a capitulation by the fed and they in my mind and I could be wrong again I'm a village idiot sometimes but in my mind they're going to print and when I say print money I don't mean they're going to roll any [ __ ] off of those presses what I'm talking about there are so many different ways that they can inject
(26:36) liquidity into uh our system whether it's the btfp program after the uh Silicon Valley uh Bank crisis uh followed by silvergate and signature although I think those were Force closures U but what I'm trying to say is people are telling you that this is a time maybe not to be fearful but to protect yourself and again I'll just go back to what I said pull your head out of your ass look around do the reading do the research and you only have three things to do get Bitcoin stack like a smart psychopath hold on to the Bitcoin
(27:12) whatever it takes and then you can't lose the damn thing and it's easy to lose Bitcoin if you screw up um I think that's another rant so I better stop you're don't worry about ranting we love rants on the show but to your point in in going back to something you said earlier in terms of being a working in your word stiff and watching the financial system do its thing and feeling like you can't participate this time around is that something that really appeals to you with Bitcoin is you feel like there is something that can allow the working
(27:47) stiff to participate in man I love that I just yeah let's uh I just love that yeah exactly right I yeah guess what guess what I I am front these bastards you know if you looked at the 13f filings over the last two weeks from all the major corporations with over 100 million uh Au guess what they showed us these people are here we set up the trip wires the flares are in the air they're inside our perimeter now they're with us but you know what these these little chicken shits they're putting in the tiniest percent even you know you saw
(28:22) I'm sure the UAE put in $436 million in Bitcoin in their Sovereign wealth fund do you know what that represents out of their Holdings it's like I think it's 41 100s of 1% it's some infimal small amount even the Pension funds up there in Michigan I mean there these are small numbers so they're with us they're starting to accumulate but it's so small that we still have an opportunity to front run these people and you know what it's a powerful feeling I know that I can't be rug pulled I own Bitcoin I I'm not worried about
(29:00) hell I'm not worried about a damn thing if you want the truth I don't I never think about Bitcoin failing anymore and and I can explain about that later but I'm not concerned about that I uh I know what I hold and I hold it like a son of a [ __ ] I mean I've got I've said this before I've got that Bitcoin in that Fist and it's not coming out I mean you're going to have to pry that you I don't know what it's going to take a million of coin I might I I don't know what it's going to take because it is my most precious asset and someday going
(29:30) forward I'm not going to ever have to sell a SAT you know I may not be here it may be you know I don't have a real distant Horizon out there like people a lot of people listening to this if you're younger than 45 and you're stacking Bitcoin You've Got It Made man if if you ever looked at compound interest the eighth wonder of the world and really did some research into it it would just water your eyes so I I getting back to your question I know what I hold I'm not concerned about anything I feel like I'm in front of
(30:03) these people I'm still in front of them I'm not saying that's going to last much longer I mean the train is leaving the station kids but right now you still have an opportunity to front run these people let's dive into that Eighth Wonder of the world because there are a lot of I'm a millennial in my early 30s oh man and I I put the show out there a lot of people comment you read the YouTube comments and there's a lot of people that are skeptical and Bitcoin is too good to be true it's so volatile is it really worth it I'm just
(30:38) going to get my pants ripped off um from from accumulating to this asset I think giving people the the long-term perspective and really bringing in compound interest into the the the discussion when we say compound interests are really um sort of uh trying to draw uh analogies to bitcoin's compound annual growth rate and purchasing power um is exactly and so how do you think people in their mid-20s early 30s up to mid 40s should be approaching this oh my God you guys you're going to have the greatest life I mean you just can't
(31:25) imagine what's coming I mean I'm envious you know I work out every day and although I'm older you know I intend to be around here for a long time kicking ass taking names and watching this unfold and I'm going to have the best time watching everything from Millennials and younger just kicking ass and basically the greatest transfer of wealth we may ever see I I got a lot of push back on this and and I'll give you a quote so that maybe you can use it for clickbait if you want but I said not long ago you it bitcoin's about 100
(32:00) let's just say 100 Grand you get $10,000 now Bitcoin has got and you've been in the space a long time you know they return it's been like 225% over its you know lifetime uh in The Last 5 Years it's been about 50 a little bit less than 55 now and you know you can cherry pick and do whatever you want but I'm just talking five full years and so you know if you look at here's what's so important about compound interest kager and and if by the way if anybody's listening just go to Google or or go to grock and type in
(32:34) Reverse kager c a g r calculator and start having some fun you got three things to fill in put in the 10,000 like I said and if you're really if you think that you're going to be able to get up to half a Bitcoin or a Bitcoin stick the damn thing in there okay then put in the years now the minimum year that you should use is 20 years and and I can tell tell you why that's I think it's a quadratic function but it it doesn't matter what's important here is that as time goes by it just starts to grow not quite exponentially but really powerfully you
(33:11) can put in hold on just a minute here I think I got it up when you were talking so you can put in that 40,000 or 55k and you know if you go to 20 years it's $64 million now the push back that I got it you know when I first said that what I was trying to explain to people was two things two things one bitcoin's got the greatest compound interest of or return of any asset out there nothing's compared to it okay so you've you've made it you got it you've got the asset secondly it's time you and what I was trying to explain to people is the time
(33:47) aspect so let's just say that you think well that's stupid because if you follow the power law it's true you know that volatility and returns are probably decreasing so pick a number I mean if we have an explosive move in Bitcoin and it gets up to where I was talking about earlier you know you're going to have a massive uh kager over the next six if you go back six years seven years whatever but as it decreases put in a different number go 10 years at you know 45% and the next 10 at 30% wherever you think it's going to go sailor's model
(34:19) he's got it down at about 20% flatlining after 18 years you know I think that's too damn low he's using about twice the cost of capital cost of capital now is about 10.8 so anyway let's look at a number here put in uh just put in 40% ker and go 20 years as an average just an average comes out to about $8.5 million that's pretty amazing isn't it I mean you think about that wow that's pretty incredible and then if you continue you go out to 30 years it's like I I don't even want to say this number almost it's like $240 million and
(34:54) it's only 10 years difference so if you want go down to 30 uh% kager at the end of it 30 years you're you're going to have more wealth than a human being could possibly accumulate in any way shape or form and why is that you know why is that important you know when you start getting up into those numbers what the hell are you going to do with all that money you're going to sit around and eat a bunch of donuts you're going to you know buy eight Lambos you know I have a really nice sports car and it's not a Lambo it's I mean a real muscle car
(35:29) but how many of those muscle cars do I need I really only need one everything that you own possesses a part of you so what are you going to do with that money in my mind you should create generational wealth I and when I say that that term is used a lot but most people don't understand that you're talking about wealth that will will go on for decades even hundreds of years look at the Ross child that's that's probably the best example Myer Ross child 1700 started his first bank then he sent all of his kids out there his sons all
(36:03) to the major capitals of the world at the time and they started their own bank he taught them about assets and also how to try to get a rate of return that was beyond normal rate of return and Beyond inflation and there are many ways to do that but as a bitcoiner you have the asset to do it you got it it's yours all you have to do is hold on to the damn thing and eventually you will get to a point with products that are coming uh that you will never have to sell a SAT you'll be able to just buy borrow die Dynasty as a
(36:42) technique yeah the Ros shs story obviously a lot of people um there's a lot of conspiracies around Rothchilds and all that but if you go read like how's the Rothchild and that was was the interesting thing particularly about the early generations of the family is not only did they go all around the world but they had to work their way into the business as well they had the proof that they could actually uh competently understand the the um the concepts that you're were just describing about um outperforming the inflation rate and a market
(37:21) Benchmark and then they were allowed in the family and like okay you you've proven yourself confident you can you can be trusted with this Bank I I love the way you said that prove yourself competent because it's not just them I just pick them but there are all kinds of these families they are not family you know uh Louis Vuitton and Hennessee and so or uh the Rockefellers Vanderbilts it's just endless that families that have possessed wealth over long periods of time have also done something that Bitcoin is going to be
(37:50) good at I mean what are bitcoiners bit you know you go to these conferences you talk to bitcoiners they're the smartest brightest usually the most ethical moral people you're going to meet and they're going to be raising kids now so you know young bitcoiners you know get off your ass and start procreating because it's up to you you're going to change the world and you're going to have enough wealth if you do what we we're talking about here that you're going to raise those kids and it's up to you you know those families I'm talking about they
(38:17) did educate their kids in money and not currency but money and how to uh create generational wealth and hang on to it through Trust Char itable trust capital gains uh Maneuvers and you can do the same thing yeah that's what somebody my oldest son is five years now youngest is two two and a half oh that's awesome there will be more it's something I think about a lot um and we're starting the there's any Bitcoin out there props for props are do to the team of Tuttle twins it's incredible early programming for the children to
(38:57) get them to understand concepts of Bitcoin and finnally enough with our oldest we found like we we got the angel Studio subscription we came Guild members and then just put Tuttle twins on season 1 and let them watch some of the cartoons like one of the shows that we feel comfortable putting in front of them CU we watch it with them and it it gives a good lesson and without even trying to influence the oldest son his favorite episode is the Bitcoin episode um in in season one so or might have been season two but uh it's funny how
(39:32) you you you'll find that uh it's natur the concept of money even at a young age is fascinating to kids and they're they're naturally drawn to it that's a neat story I I uh hey uh you know because of my different jobs in life and stuff uh especially working underground as a minor I I swear a lot but there's no kids in your studio or anything or no listen okay that's fine yeah uh you can swear on the podcast okay the uh we do get yelled at if there is a in agree you are you are a Navy man so you in the air but technically a sailor I guess to some
(40:12) some extent but there are some sailor Mouse on the show that people people reach out and say too much cursing but it's been good well this you know the sailors on the ship uh they didn't really like us I mean that's that's real Navy there those are blue water Navy people and they they didn't like us in fact you know we when we came on board the carrier we were like an invading species almost you know the the plane the carrier usually doesn't have any planes on it until it's getting ready to deploy and then we'd go out and do our
(40:39) workouts we'd make that the carrier would' have to go out into the ocean a little ways then we' do our workups you know practice to make sure we could still land on the damn thing and uh so they didn't like that and then they'd come back and and once we started steaming you know the captain I mean he is in charge of the ship it doesn't matter how many you know air bosses or Pilots or whoever they think they are the captain's in charge of the ship and he's got a he's got a mission I mean he's got orders and and I'm not saying
(41:04) he was breaking him out in an envelope but he's got orders he has to be somewhere so every time we wanted to go flying you know those Sailors would get pissy because they'd have to turn the ship into the wind so they couldn't go where they wanted to go they' put him behind schedule they'd launch us and then sometimes we had trouble getting on board or something any delay like that so you know if there are any Sailors out they they probably wouldn't say he's a he's one of those AV he's he's not really a sailor it's uh I I worked for a naval
(41:35) Captain for eight for eight Summers down the shore and uh learned a lot about the Dynamics of of the Navy and warships and discipline um so it's uh it's an interesting life and partic particularly now with how volatile the geopolitical system is and how complacent many believe our military has gotten in recent years like the um the thought of of going to war and whether or not you're you're confident in the ability of the armed forces being disciplined if you're in the armed forces the people next to you obviously there was a lot of recruiting
(42:14) problems during the Biden Administration and it'll be interesting to see if if the armed forces are able to recover and get back to that mentality of extreme uh discipline I yeah I uh you know when I went through uh when I so I was just a college kid you know I finally got back to college graduated and uh you know I I thought I was pretty special or whatever and and and I was in a special program so to become an Officer and a Gentleman they called it we're going to turn you into an Officer and a Gentleman and they made
(42:50) a movie about it in fact and so you show up down there and you know you you might you might think that you're something but you know it's 5:00 a.m. in the morning and some Marine di throws this big garbage can aluminum garbage down a lolium line hallway and you get to hear language that you didn't think anybody could speak and you get to be you know physically challenged to the point where you either throw up or sometimes you just about pass out and yeah they you know they they get up close and personal and they real they make you realize that
(43:24) you've got a lot to learn and a lot to do here and uh you know we're you know Marty human beings you know Homo sapiens we've been on this planet I just posted something this morning about this we've been on the planet over 200,000 years and for two to 300,000 years we have had a brutal existence I mean you know did you see the Colosso company they uh they just put out some information they cloned The Woolly Mammoth jean into a mouse and it got really it grew real long hair and they're goal is to reproduce extinct animals including the
(44:01) woolly mammoth well you know those were real animals saber-tooth tigers were real I mean we fought them up close and personal and human beings have been in close in combat with these animals uh for hundreds of thousands of years and we because we like meat and it's uh it's interesting to see how the narrative has changed you know we've only been Farmers for 10,000 years and that's why we're here today in fact it's really why you and I are having a conversation about money because you know that's been the that's what we've been looking for for
(44:33) 10,000 years after we were done chasing animals around and plants and insects and anything else you know for 10,000 years and you can see it in the history uh you can look in the clay tablets in Mesopotamia written in uniform that try to document who owes who like a ledger they're just trying to say who owes who what so we've been looking for money for 10,000 years in my mind we found it and that it's Bitcoin and does that play into your idea that power law viruses and Bitcoin have similar sort of trajectories or Dynamics
(45:10) at play that's a yeah that that's yeah that is that let's talk about that for a minute uh and this might be a little controversial with people I really don't care whether you agree or not it doesn't matter to me I mean I I listen to anything if somebody has disagrees with me I'll just listen to whatever they got to say but unlike some of the people that I follow and that I I I really like their content I think there are people that are really discounting the power law and not giving it a a a strong enough look and the reason I
(45:43) say that I think is because I believe they're probably suffering from PTSD from Plan B and that [ __ ] model he had and and I think I can and you know so many people got hurt in that cycle I'm I'm sure you remember it that that previous cycle a lot of it seemed like it was the uh leverage you know a lot of people on margin leverage getting wiped out because they were sure using that model they knew exactly where Bitcoin was going I'm going to tell you right now if you're listening nobody knows where bitcoin's going it is a it is a
(46:13) beast it's like an apex predator hey you know I use that term a lot a apex predator and I always think of almost like a dinosaur like a T-Rex and you know again I think it falls back to that you know I'm just a pleb I'm a warrior I'm a guy in the trenches and I think it falls back to that idea that in my IDE Ideal World I'd be back in Rome it'd be Roman times and there'd be dinosaurs around I'd be chasing dinosaurs and stuff with my buddies but let let me ask you something before I go down that road have you ever used have you ever said
(46:46) that Bitcoin is like a beast or bitcoin's like a living organism Bitcoin is MHM yeah I think um Ralph Merkel finally enough the inventor of where the Discover of Merkel trees inventor I guess is the better term he said this a while ago I read one of my first newsletters I ever wrote was on this quote from Ralph basically identifying Bitcoin as this living organism because it finds a way to somewhat contract humans out to plug machines in to expend energy to make sure that it has the ability to ssist and continue moving on
(47:25) and growing and and via the full node topography it's found a way for people to sort of ensure that The Ledger this living organism as Ralph Merkel explained it um survives and so the fact that it's copied on tens of thousands of machines around around the world and it is this sort of living Ledger that is adding a block of transactions on 10 minutes uh on average every 10 minutes um yeah I I have used that before and I think Ralph merkel's description of it is something that really opened my eyes to that then obviously you have Brandon
(48:04) uh quiddam Bitcoin is mycelium which I really love I love that piece and that whole train of thought that is this is emergent Network that's growing pretty naturally I think it's a common theme and you know I I listened uh I don't know if you're familiar with Jeff Parks you know he's a very this is a deep guy I mean when he talks I usually have to have grock 3 to like translate what he's saying but his uh his analysis is really deep and yet this is a very technical guy and the other day he called it a living Beast I mean he said that or a
(48:39) living organism and what did sailor even sailor the other day called it a virus well let me ask you this if you were to look at Power laws and and I don't want to go down the power law it's been beat up enough but again I think that as time goes you'll see that there's validity behind the power law theory because if if you look at Power laws Bitcoin and viruses three things they have something in common and it's a network effect and especially applies to social networks so I don't know how you think about Bitcoin and its adoption but I
(49:24) often think of it as almost like a social network that's expanding and you know we we are familiar with Met's law and the and the value of a network and you can see how in my mind Bitcoin almost exhibits those it co-sharers that with virus-like behavior and and power laws are used to describe viruses and they can describe them accurately too so when I think of Bitcoin I I actually do think of it almost as a living organism that was search of a host and if you think about it deeper you'll realize that boy what
(50:01) would be if I were a a Bitcoin virus and I wanted to spread throughout the world what would my host be well it would be the internet and you know we often compare if we look at the graph of adoption and we compare Bitcoin to the internet we we can see there's a pattern there and we're in my mind we are growing on the back of the internet and what's great about that is just think about what I just said it gives a resilience and a power to uh Bitcoin that is like a virus and viruses are powerful they're not they're weird
(50:34) because they're not alive that's another thing they're not alive and they're not dead they're in between almost like Bitcoin so when you think about it what I'm trying to say is that it's picked the perfect host right now internet access is present for about four and a half billion people on the planet and growing smartphones about 3 and A2 billion and growing and it's something that can't be stopped that's another thing that's so important about this just think about think about what I just said there if if the internet is
(51:11) its host Bitcoin is adapting to that and growing and expanding and that host can't be killed you know the ideal viruses the influenza virus we didn't even know it was a virus the flu virus until like 33 1933 it's been with us for Millennia now they're finding out and it's that perfect virus because it it makes us sick it has a fun time and it's you know it propagates but doesn't go away it adapts it mutates and I know this is getting kind of long I'll wrap it up here in a second you wrap it up keep going well so the thing
(51:46) is just just take it you know just think about it from that Viewpoint how do you stop the internet imagine imagine the United States if it came out tomorrow and says we're going to stop the internet for 3 Days the world would explode and you can't do it and here's another thing too because bitcoin's using that as a host you can't kill it you could you know China could say we're Banning the you know like we're going to ban Bitcoin we're going to ban the internet well no country is going to ban the internet for
(52:17) any length of time and then when they do ban the internet as soon as they come online some node's going to propagate again the full blockchain and everything's going to be updated you know you could kill the internet across the planet for a day and not with satellites soon as the Bitcoin system came back online it would update and keep right on chugging away just like nothing happened um so Bitcoin is like a beast now may not be that Beast that I want in Rome where I'm out there fighting it with a sword but you know
(52:46) what it's it's like it's it's in between alive and dead and I think it's the network it's the network effect that ties these ideas of power law Bitcoin and viruses together yeah and going back to Ralph mk's um example and satoshi's design Satoshi designed something so incredibly beautiful the incentives particularly about how each stakeholder interacts with each other and the network has his Bounty which is the block subsidy plus the transaction fee so it has this this bounty which is the reward that a minor can um um receive for for
(53:32) propagating the network and and making sure that it grows and just this code that has this bounty out there it's like hey if somebody helps me produce a block of transactions that nodes are trying to send between each other I'm going to reward you with this with this monetary good and then Us in Meet Spas are literally working extremely hard to lock down massive massive amounts of energy massive amounts of Hardware infrastructure just to get the Bounty that this Bitcoin Network this digital monetary system running on the
(54:08) back of the internet has has just introduced to the world and all it was was Satoshi designing the incentives writing the code and hitting launch and here we are 16 years later and it's a almost $2 trillion market and people are only getting more aggressive in terms of trying to figure out ways to to get that Bounty as efficiently as possible and and just like a beast Bitcoin will fight you if you if you try to circumnavigate it look at the difficulty adjustment it's like a living thing I mean you know you try to you you
(54:44) try to think that you're going to you know overcome the hash rate you know and you're going to somehow generate a tremendous amount of hash rate and you're going to you know get ahead of the system feating in some way and'll claw it right back I mean that difficulty adjustment is a beautiful piece of work it's like a part of that whole organism oh yeah it's almost like an immune response to the amount of attention that humans are paying to the network if it's too much attention it's like all right you guys are getting a
(55:18) little crazy we're going to make it harder to find this bounty that I've set out there there's not enough attention it's like all right I'm going to make it easier to draw attention back to the network it's it's really a a Marvel I mean you mentioned compound interest as the eighth wonder of the world I think bitcoin's design may have to be the ninth oh I love that I just I have never thought of that I mean I've never even I I just love that I uh oh that yeah that's really um you know just think about that for a minute
(55:50) what you said there maybe yeah maybe someday looking back here it will be described that way because again we haven't seen anything yet I I figure I was saying that we're about 5 or 6% adoption rate right now but you know what uh that report that just came out from River uh it was a really in-depth report and and I'm a big fan of river uh great great company but uh you know some of their figures kind of gave me pause I mean their adoption rate they they put it at like maybe 2 or 3% as I remember and and like 1991
(56:26) two on the internet adoption rate and stuff so I don't know where we really set right now but I do know it's still early and for all of you out there again if you're uptight you're having you know if you're if you're just not resting at ease because you think you're too late everybody's thought that I mean you know I've thought the same thing you there is no too late to bitcoin you just need to start stacking and you know you can stack smartly I mean you can do that I I do follow James Czech big fan of checkm
(56:57) on X and uh you know he he's he's got a good enough handle on the analysis and I feel like I do too now that I kind of know there are certain times when I would not buy if I were still buying and I don't buy anymore I mean uh I'm just I'm all in and it's kind of a peaceful feeling you know I mean you got got your assets allocated to bitcoin you I'm just very peaceful right now Same Love James his analysis is invaluable particularly for those who are hyper emotional when it comes to the intraday movements of
(57:30) the price and going and reading james' newsletter is really a good way to find peace of mind and try to figure out where we are in in the market and get going back to the adoption rate I think we just released an episode with Parker Lewis yesterday and I'm beginning and a lot of the discussion that I had with Parker this week was around using Bitcoin as money and we didn't directly talk about it but I think I'm beginning to see it here at the business at tftc granted we're early adopters of Bitcoin as a business both using it as a
(58:08) treasury asset accepting it for payments and paying contractors in it however I do think there is some signal to glean from what's Happening Here and the amount of invoices that I'm receiving to pay for contractors or services that are vital to our business that are coming from zap right which give us the opportunity to pay in Fiat or Bitcoin are going up pretty dramatically in have specifically in the last 6 months when it comes to network effects and power laws and viruses spreading I think internally at this business it's
(58:44) something I'm certainly beginning to notice for the first time it seems like people are demanding Bitcoin in our world and again granted this is a Bitcoin company we interact with a lot of other Bitcoin companies but having been doing this for eight years it seems like even in the Bitcoin space people are finally coming around to all right we should really be dog fooding this and making sure that we are accepting Bitcoin as payment or using Bitcoin as a means to pay for for other goods and services that we're interacting with and
(59:17) I think that progression is going to break out of our bubble and you're going to begin seeing bitcoiners who aren't running a Bitcoin Focus business but have their own small medium large siiz business that they want to begin accumulating and they're going to start doing the same thing it's like hey if you want to pay for this good and service you can pay me in Fiat or Bitcoin that's interesting I uh and you know going back to something I said earlier you know I told you that the Bitcoin that I have you know worked hard
(59:46) to gather and scratched out of the earth so to speak I mean I said it's in my fists and I meant that but doesn't mean that I don't spend Bitcoin I just like if I want to use a a circular economy with Bitcoin what I do is I just do a fill and spend and wallet and you know really when you think about it for capital gains purposes IRS tax purposes that's the way to do it you know just buy Bitcoin that day and just buy something I just uh bought one of those saus feares uh I should get it here pretty soon I don't know if you know
(1:00:16) what that is but I'll send you a DM with it later or if not it's really cool so I don't mind spending Bitcoin and I think people are going to have to you already I think you're spot on because I think people are going to have to earn Bitcoin they're going to have to come out there and go you know what I've got to put something of value out there in order to get B Bitcoin there will come a point uh where again whether it's unit bias or however you view you know adoption and where we're going here or this cycle the
(1:00:43) next cycle I don't know when but I am absolutely convinced there's no doubt in my mind that bitcoin's going to a million of coin and if you look at the history of Bitcoin and where where it is in any anal is it's only going to continue to go up and to the right I don't know what rate and I don't know when we'll see that I used to think it was like 2030 maybe 32 I I don't know anymore but when it gets to these points people are going to want to bitco get bit Bitcoin and they're going to have to offer something there's going to have to
(1:01:13) be something of value in order to get Bitcoin and then we will truly start to turn into this economy that all of us want I mean you know I don't want this I I am so sick of the Fiat world and and what it has done all the way from that period that I was telling you in the 70s to today and the endless Wars I and you know I I'm a military member and I you know I just I'm very tired of the Fiat world and so I'm hopeful I I really am Marty I am too I think the Ze has certainly shifted in recent years where people are
(1:01:52) recognizing that the big Nanny state governments of the world and large corporations that feed the politicians that enter that Nanny state do not have the people's best interest at heart and then even that recognition is driven by the fact that it's becoming impossible to get off the hamster wheel and the hamster wheel's getting so fast that people can't even stay on it and it's a push comes to shove moment for Humanity right now where people are throwing their hands up and saying wait a second need we need to change things
(1:02:28) drastically at the core of our society and most have not recognized it yet but I think that's why I do what I do and that's why I think I'm here speaking with you today because you believe the same things that fixing the core of the problem means fixing the money in Bitcoin is the only way to do that in today's day and age yeah you're yeah you know 2010 uh when Bernan decided they were going to go all in on QE it it changed our world forever I mean those Pricks and they knew they were going to blow an asset bubble but they thought it
(1:03:01) was worth it if if you read uh the Lords of easy money uh it will give you a really good background in that particular period they knew they were going to cause an asset bubble but they thought oh we need to spike you know employment up just a little bit more and I mean look at the consequences today yeah we're all on a on a hamster wheel those people that are in the Fiat world they're running their ass off and as I mentioned earlier you know both people are working I mean that sucks and they have to work some people have not only
(1:03:33) are both people working they often they've got side gigs you know that they're just trying to keep going you can't front run these people if you're in the Fiat system I mean with a you know Mouse click money no matter how hard you stve save no matter how hard you work they can cut you know the rug or pull the rug up from under you overnight and now look at the housing prices look at that what a bunch of nonsense you know you got all these jackasses out there using houses as a store of value and then you have people
(1:04:01) that you know just want to you know they they've got kids or a young family like Carla and Walker they just want to they just want to have a place to stay they're not looking to try and they just want to live in a house which is a novel concept I don't know if you're familiar with uh the D dscr Loans that have gone on uh uh in in financing vrbos across the country and how that's distorted the market you know those are loans that are made just based upon the owner saying you know projecting well I'm going to get this much income over you know the
(1:04:35) next 20 years this much rental income and so they're just buying up properties that often aren't making that and they're just sitting around it's uh it's so distorted right now and it kind of goes back to what you started this podcast with which is things seem very uncertain and volatile and you know really don't know where things are going I I'm very interested to see what comes out tomorrow this is Thursday the 6th and tomorrow on the 7th they're going to have the uh crypto what is it what's it going to be the crypto asset conference
(1:05:09) or something the first crypto Summit in Capital Hill and hopefully you know I want you know unlike some people and I've read you know some good articles counter counter articles including ni Carters and you know I have no issue I want to see the United States establish a strategic Bitcoin Reserve Bitcoin Reserve Bitcoin only I want that I I think it could be something that really helps our country as the years unfold I mean why do we have gold in in reserves I mean why why are other nation states collecting gold Bitcoin
(1:05:47) runs circles around gold gold can't handle you know what is money uh you know think about that for a minute it's portable fun ible durable divisible verifiable scarce uh resistant to seizure that's money and and Bitcoin runs circles around that gold so why wouldn't we have Bitcoin as a strategic Reserve U I want to see that I I really do and you know I don't know if you've been following Senator lumus she's getting a lot of flak right now from bitcoiners and I'm kind of surprised at it because she's been pretty clear she
(1:06:21) just had an interview about a week ago and she's been very clear where things are going she's uh she just said you know she's back in Congress and her Bitcoin act she was surprised at how many people did not understand Bitcoin but came to her office or she approached them and they wanted to learn more but they just were clueless even with all the new Congressional members that are and I've got air quotes here crypto-friendly and she said there first that new subcommittee the digital asset subcommittee that she's chairman of she
(1:06:52) said uh our first goal is to get stablecoin regulation out there and then the second goal is uh digital asset regulation and then the third B uh would be to try and get the Bitcoin Act pass which I would like to see pass also but I I think that that's a step where some of the arguments as I mentioned earlier could have validity regarding the dollar but I don't see why that is with the I mean how do you feel about the Sovereign uh bitco or the Bitcoin fund strategic Bitcoin I I I don't want to say I'm more neutral
(1:07:28) like I I don't think I think a lot of bitcoiners have put a lot of weight on the Bitcoin Reserve because they think that's going to lead to the nation state sort of Scramble for Bitcoin that's going to drive the price up um and I think a lot of uh a lot of bitcoiners have been pumping the Strategic Reserve um have made a framing uh mistake in term terms of this may not be their intention but I think it's being perceived by many people in the broader public who don't really understand Bitcoin that Bitcoin going up
(1:08:04) is dependent on a strategic Bitcoin Reserve here in the United States that sets off that that race by other nation states and I just think that framing is a miscalculation because people think that pick winners are really pushing for this to to drive the price up to pump their own bags uh I I just have a disagreement with the framing of of how PE some people not all but some have been framing it um God kandle all that because the nation states are coming um and not to say that if the nation states did come that wouldn't happen but I
(1:08:38) think I'm a semantics [ __ ] and really um want it to be clear to people that I as an American agree with you I think it would be incredibly beneficial for the American people if the government were to accumulate a strategic Bitcoin Reserve but I think we need to be clear that the government needs Bitcoin more than Bitcoin needs the government and frame it that way like and almost be Blas about it like we don't care if you do the Strategic Reserve bitcoin's going to be fine however we think it would be massively beneficial for the country if
(1:09:14) you were to do that yeah and you know the thing is that it doesn't really matter whether they do or not because it it's going to happen one way or the other in fact I mean that you know the cats out of the bag we cross the Rubik I that's another good Roman story I love you know why do guys like Rome so you know that's another great story though I mean we I mean really we did cross the Rubicon and what I'm talking about there is in Nashville I mean the nation states are on notice you saw bellarus and what they just came out
(1:09:44) with I mean they're going to start mining Bitcoin as a nation state and their leader lucenko he he clearly said on air why are we doing this well the United States is going to start doing this so I'm paraphrasing him but basically that's what he's saying and I already believe there's no doubt in my mind that uh nation states are already doing this uh you know the Russian Finance Minister on Christmas Day last year came right out I've never heard anybody say this before in Russia and he just said right right on a he said we have made global
(1:10:18) trade settlement now in Bitcoin I mean why wouldn't you want to accumulate as much Bitcoin as you can and especially get hash rat and you know if you look at the UAE and their hash rate and then Oman which just wants to double the hash rate for a reason and it's to control the blocks it makes a lot of sense this is going to happen we are in a race I mean we may not acknowledge it and when I say Crossing the Rubicon I mean there's no going back you know that's the whole key to that story you know it's January n uh 9th the night of that
(1:10:47) that evening and it's uh 49 BC and Julius Caesar he on the North Shore of the Rubicon River he's got to make a decision he his troops love him they're all behind him they've come out of the North out of Gaul and if he crosses that River in the morning uh he has basically committed treason with a standing army and he's going to march on Rome and when he does the you know on the other side he famously says yaka elanus EST the die is cast meaning this is it I'm not going back I will either be hung or or the Romans had
(1:11:25) many different ways to kill you but I'll I will be deceased at the end of this campaign or I will end the Republic and we will start an Empire and I think that when actually I know in my mind after I'm not I am convinced after Nashville and those three speeches I think we're in a new world now Marty I completely agree and as it pertains to Cynthia lumus I think I agree with you people need to show her an immense amount of Grace take a step back and recognize the massive win that is squabbling over the priority of a stable coin Bill a
(1:12:02) market structure bill or the Bitcoin strategic reserve and recognize that the Overton window has been shifted so far in our favor that that's what we're squabbling about it's not can we get bank accounts can you please stop arresting developers it's what's going to go first it's an incredible win and we should appreciate that and for Cynthia I think a lot of Bitcoin have to imagine she lives in the swamp of DC and whether we like it or not politicking exists and sometimes you just have to play Within the framework
(1:12:35) of the incentives that exist on Capitol Hill and I think she's doing that and if you look at the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve bill it is Bitcoin only it protects self- custody it does things very it lays out things very well it is Bitcoin only and again the overt Windows shifted so far that we're squabbling oh things that you would have told if you would have told us we were squabbling over these things only two years ago people would have said you were Nots yeah uh you know there's a big battle going on right now uh in
(1:13:08) Washington over stable coins and I don't think a lot of bitcoiners are aware of it but and really the two combatants and I'll use that word are tether and usdc and um they're I mean they're like this right now and they're uh usdc uh CEO I think it's Jeremy rat so so you know he's us-based fully compliant I mean basically very close to cbdc and tether right now is kicking their ass I mean they are you know tether is an incredible company $1 13 billion in profit you know Black Rock black rock is an 11.5 trillion company
(1:13:51) they've got their fingers in every pie in the world they were there for the rebuilding a rock you know as a contractor was Black Rock in there sucking up money but um what I was going to say is they had twice the profit of Black Rock last year and and at least recently they had less than 100 employees you know they're moving down to El Salvador uh building a new office headquarters down there it's going to be a big building doubling their employees there there are huge holders of us treasuries and who do who who you know
(1:14:23) manages that for it's caner Fitzgerald and Howard letnik is closely aligned with them and uh you know sailor himself said that you know we should bring bring these people back on board I think he even mentioned tether you know to get them back into the U or into the US and be us-based but you know this this battle is being fought behind the uh closed doors and in fact I to Senator lumus did did come up with some I won't say disconcerting statements but when she was talking about tether she's really Towing the
(1:15:02) line to a lot of spokes people that are you know calling it a money laundering uh sponsoring terrorism type thing that's why they didn't get approved uh in Micah the European Union's uh new framework and are not being you know are not working within that EU system so this is a big battle and there's going to be a lot of bitcoiners say I don't give a [ __ ] it's a shitcoin well you know I I just dis agree and I I'll just tell you if you look at where Bitcoin and lightning in particular lightning is going I think tether is going to try to
(1:15:33) be a really big part of that uh new tap rout uh assets protocol and it's probably going to happen and we're going to see a major change going forward are you referencing The Wall Street Journal article that was written yeah that's a good article did you read that yeah I did and uh yeah it's somebody's been in the space and tether there's a lot of tether truthers out there outside of Bitcoin and then within Bitcoin um many believe that tether is some nefarious actor but having been around a while I mean tether spun out a
(1:16:07) bitfinex and to your point about lightning bitfinex first exchange simplement lightning actually saw right before we hit record it looks like poo uh androo is on Capitol Hill today so maybe he's participating tomorrow but when it comes to Circle vers tether and I will recognize and acknowledge there may be some uh discomfort in how big tether is and how much influence it has on the space but I have a lot of respect for binex and tether personally because for the longest time they've been the pirates of the industry um in terms of
(1:16:41) big players that have really um driven a lot of innovation forward and done it in a way where they operate in this gray market and try I believe to stay as aligned with Cipher Punk the cipher Punk ethos as closely as possible this whole I was actually in Abu Dhabi and for Bitcoin mana and then stuck around for a day they had the Abu Dhabi fin Abu Dhabi Finance week and I was there in the room when Circle and binance announced their their partnership and Jeremy Lair and this new CEO of binance were on stage talking about it
(1:17:18) and the moves that circle is moving to try to force tether out of the market are extremely slimy and I think they're coming from a place of resentment because tether found product Market fit and has had immense amounts of success over the years and circle simply has not been able to keep up and this whole I think those two companies juxtaposed to each other really paint two starkly different Futures one where the Pirates are trying to stay true to the cyppher punk ethos and really enable the ability for individuals around the world to gain
(1:17:57) access to these Financial world uh rails and then circle is the digital panopticon sort of pencil Pusher suck up to the nanny State Jeremy Lair like let's let's regulate everything and I'll do whatever you want Daddy government yeah I and I that's really well framed better than I put it out there because that puts it that's the real framing of this battle is is just what you said and I you know maybe we need somebody to pose our viewpoints because I'm very closely aligned with what you just said and if you follow uh
(1:18:37) tether and I'm trying to remember the cfo's name it's uh G Carlo yeah he uh yeah the P I love that pirate analogy because that's probably very true in fact I think that was in the article too they discussed that and I thought you know that Rings true what you know of him and he's going to be the CEO pretty soon and so yeah this is a big battle and it's a it's an important battle for Bitcoin because you aren't going to you know again there's going to be bitcoiners that if you had poop emojis on this screen right now they'd be
(1:19:08) throwing them on Jethro that was my call sign in the Navy and you have call signs because when you're dog fighting you know it it's you just need one word that kind of gets your you know will get your attention you always fight with a wingman and so you know your wingman's call sign and you kind of know your buddies and stuff and you know if somebody calls out your name you and you know you recognize his call sign and you just it you work together really well that way you know there's a there's a you know how in uh that last Top Gun
(1:19:38) movie they say you never leave your wingmen right you never W well you know I will tell you something sometimes when the [ __ ] hits the fan and there's just two of you and you're both getting overwhelmed there's a call that comes out over the radio and it says you know Viper one is Jethro yo uh yo-yo and what it means is guess what buddy we're done we're not friends anymore we're not really wingman yo-yo means you're on your own and I'll see you later but just just getting back to this uh what I wanted to say is after you throw the
(1:20:10) poop emojis you know just if there's any bitcoiner out there that can tell me how you're going to stop tether from doing what it wants to do like on the lightning network over the next year or two you tell me how you're going to do it because I don't know and you know they're going to be able to issue and manage tokens on lightning and if you just read uh some of the recent reports that Fidelity report that just came out on the lightning Network what did tell you lightning is changing I mean it's getting more efficient less channels
(1:20:39) less you know less of it the nodes but much more efficient and the bigger nodes are carrying most of the traffic if you can hop between one node to the next node your lightning transaction is almost at the speed of light and it's 99% likely to go through every time you skip you go to another node you decrease that chance maybe 4 to 8% so you know if we want lightning to be what it was envisioned to be and and how how fny talks about this you know if we want it to be almost like a tokenized financial system based on bitcoin backed by
(1:21:16) Bitcoin then you know we should I won't say we should encourage you know the success other than I I want to see how this pans out I want lightning to succeed I want it to be that payment Network I want it so that every poor [ __ ] down there in South America or Central America who's just trying to get ahead I mean some guy in Argentina 120% inflation you know this poor bastard he just gets a couple bucks or enough of his stupid pesos that he can con convert them into dollars and he's going to want to do that and am I going to be my
(1:21:50) privileged self sitting here in my nice beautiful studio with all my paintings am I going to be the guy that says no you can't do that no you know what for next to nothing he can convert that into either tether or onto the lightning Network and just at least keep something that that stores his value and and you know I want to see that succeed I want to have rails for everybody across the planet if they can get on one of those you know channels yeah and I honestly don't get the ketching over tappered assets per personally like I don't see
(1:22:26) myself I've never used teather and like I said though like I really appreciate what they've done and am able to recognize that it has been a massive success and there's obviously demand for the utility that they're Pro providing the market who am I to say that it's stupid like it's it's inarguable it's the proof is in the pudding and the numbers and the volume and the market cap of tether and I I don't get the ketching I can see people like oh they're going to like that's the beauty of Bitcoin at every layer like lightning
(1:22:57) I just had Lisa naget on Nifty runs Bitcoin Plus+ and she highlighted something that I really hadn't internalized yet which is this whole L2 narrative that has not only taken over Bitcoin with Bitcoin season 2 but altcoins they're all moving to layer twos as well lightning is inarguably objectively the most distributed layer 2 technology on top of a blockchain in the world and the ketching I don't get because you have the ability to opt out like you can spin up your own node on the lightning Network inject capacity
(1:23:35) connect with other nodes and you can you don't have to play the taper asset game if you don't want to like it's an open permissionless system and as long as you have the ability to exit and um do what you want with your STS and use Bitcoin the way that you want to I don't I don't get why you should get so perturbed over others bringing things to Market yeah Bitcoin is permissionless it's for our enemies and again if you know how to stop some of the things ETFs options Futures lightning with tether stable coins if you know how to fix this you
(1:24:13) know write a write a onepage letter over to bitcoin magazine in the take Section with your opinion because you know opinions are like you know [ __ ] everybody's got one and I've got mine and and you know I'm at least I'm willing to admit I'm often wrong and I have to come back sometimes I say I'm sorry or or I've learned new things uh you know that's just part of you know as a as a you know by the time I got out of the Navy and by the time I was done flying for Delta before I I had an accident and a a traumatic brain injury
(1:24:45) and so that's another reason not to listen to anything I'm saying but but you know uh and I'm kind of laughing but I tell you something I really got an appreciation for what it's like for all the veterans over in Iraq and Afghanistan and some of the other outline countries that were subjected to these tvis traumatic brain injuries it's a horrible experience uh changes your personality you know you're you you go through a really rough time and I've had one as well so I know I know what you're talking about yeah exactly you know
(1:25:16) after mine I uh I had to I carried a little pocket uh one of those little you know notepads and and why because sometimes I'd be talking to somebody at a coffee shop or something and when they left and they were gone I'd pull it out and I'd write down who I had just talked to because I was going to forget it the next day and what we had talked about and that's a pretty difficult place to be in as a man you look in the mirror and you go gee am I even the person I used to be but you know what it's so good to be humbled in life I uh you know
(1:25:47) you carry around your ego and the ego is getting in front of everything man you know your ego is probably your worst to me if you can just humble yourself and and then you just start looking around you go I you know once you're humble you can learn all kinds of [ __ ] yeah agree that's the uh my apologies or admitting that I'm wrong here is hand up you say hand up a lot on this podcast hand up I was wrong I uh I said something and it didn't turn out to be true and I think to your point having the humility to be able to put the hand
(1:26:21) up and say that is a very important trait to have not in Bitcoin but just in life generally the the last thing I wanted to talk about you said wrap it up with this you're not sure how the cycle is going to go but in your mind what do you think there's a Tipping Point that when something happens whether it's nation state adoption or some blow up in global debt markets that there do you believe in the concept of hyperbitcoinization or a Tipping Point where as say would say you have this God candle where people wake
(1:26:57) up in A hurried rush into Bitcoin and it changes the Dynamics of the market drastically maybe not overnight but in a relatively short period of time yeah that's well that is a that is probably one of the deeper subjects we'll talk about because you know I said earlier I'm I'm kind of Clueless you you know the let's start let's start that discussion and let's just look at the power law we talked about that before if you're familiar with the power law and by the way folks you know it just as a a general overview
(1:27:34) of it it's an attempt to look at past Behavior like all models do and then maybe be able to tell where something's going in the future but you know what is it based on it's based on bitcoin so how many cycles does it really have to look at it now Giovani sasi's power law goes all the back way back to the Genesis block okay so he is looking at all the blocks going forward but you're basing that model on probably one of the most V volatile nent technologies that is less than 15 it's 15 years old so think about
(1:28:11) what you're doing you're attempting to to build on that model now the funny thing is if you look at his model and you do a regression analysis on it the damn thing is uncanny accurate now it has a wide V variation standard deviation like about two to the upside one to the downside downside is like almost a floor but even though it is so accurate and he says for instance I I I know how to put this okay the ETF last year in January those their arrival was a major change in the Bitcoin Market major we have seen an
(1:28:52) underlying bid on bitcoin that will water your eyes and it has been ongoing for like 1.2 million coins that's massive and yet if you go from today back that power line that regression line on the power law analysis still is a straight line how is that possible why shouldn't it have changed uh Giovani will tell you because these these things in the future are already built into this system which is very difficult to get your head around so every time that I say I think that this cycle is going to break like again let's raise my hand I
(1:29:37) was wrong on the last cycle by the way um how do you back up your thought process you can look at an scurve and and you can say well you know at somewhere like usually the chasms 14 to 16 % we get to the chasm we're going to take off with adoption we can look at mef's law but the thing is that some of these models take into something called time decadence and they allow for this this reducing volatility and uh returns you know Marty I uh here's what I can say okay cuz I really don't know where things are going
(1:30:23) like if Sams was back there he was looking at my little uh painting back there mining Bitcoin and he said hey you just won a block first off I would cut this conversation short right now he and I I got a bottle of whiskey somewhere there it is big nose Kate she used to be uh doc holiday's girlfriend and she was quite a character I'll tell you right now that's you know the part where he didn't know if she was trying to kill him or not that that was probably accurate with her but if he was back there and we you know we'd have a shot
(1:30:51) and if he said to me well you know it's too bad you got it now because it's going to be a million of coin next year I'd just look at them and say you know what you could be right I can't argue against that is what I'm trying to say but to to wrap up my thought process on this this is what I will tell you back in 22 when I was laying there in bed and I was wondering what the hell I had done to my life and Bitcoin crashed and I bought like a drunken sailor I'm not ever going to buy Bitcoin again at that price I don't know if people today are ever
(1:31:28) going to buy Bitcoin at 60,000 again and I can back that up with onchain analysis so your time is limited it's limited to keep stacking and you really just have one thing to do now and that is to stack Bitcoin like a smart psychopath hold on to the Bitcoin don't lose the Bitcoin think about what you hold start looking at a reverse kager calculator realize that like Marty said if you're younger out there and you're not some old fart like me you are going to have the most incredible life in front of you all you got to do is just be patient and
(1:32:13) live your life you know let's just say that you're young let's say you're 30 years old okay what the hell are you going to do for the next 20 30 years you you should keep working even you know even if you you're at a point where you don't have to work you still should be doing stuff and again you're not going to sit around eating donuts for the next 20 30 years you're going to work you're going to do something and it's true that someday in the future you're going to have so much generational wealth you'll be able to think about inheritance but
(1:32:42) you know what else you'll be able to do you'll be able to think about the things you want to do in life you know I just took up scuba diving I mean what a blast you'll be able to do something creative you know you can look around my studio here these pieces are these pieces will be around for hundreds of years and they're done well enough that people are going to look at them they go hey you know I really like that piece they're not just going to throw it in the garbage maybe learn a musical instrument maybe do Woodwork and gardening
(1:33:08) something you know as the world continues and AI takes over every job so I guess I just would say I don't know if we're going to break the cycle I don't even know what the cycle is anymore since you you know the having is di Minimus means nothing really anymore is it tied to presidential Cycles Global liquidity like some you know Sam Callahan and Lyn Alden were discussing I just don't know anymore I think you know what let's tie it back to what you said you started this out we are in an uncertain time and that's
(1:33:46) that's what I'll leave you with we're this is an uncertain time prepare freaks Bitcoin is maybe the only certain thing that we have in this world in these uncertain times Jethro yeah thank you for coming on this was a great pleasure I hope we can do this in person one day I feel like it' be great to have you in studio for a conversation yeah that sounds like fun and uh if I'm ever down there I used to do a lot of layovers and your part of the country there with Delta loved it too great area of the country great
(1:34:19) people just awesome and uh yeah I've had fun this has been a kind of a different conversation very deep and I uh I I appreciate that it's kind of nice to have a a more wide ranging conversation like this and you know again just remember kids if you're listening out there I'm just trying to get the word out to you trying to help as much as I can if you want to find me you can type my name into Google I'm like the first thing that comes up and if you're looking for me on X it's a Jethro capital j e t h r o e111 I don't know why I put that 111 on
(1:34:54) the end but I did and so uh thank you Marty I hope to see you in person too thank you enjoy your day freaks peace and love
