Key Takeaways

In this episode of TFTC, Will Tanner from the American Tribune delves into the strategies behind generational wealth preservation, contrasting American and British approaches. Tanner highlights how British aristocracy has sustained wealth over centuries through land ownership and community-focused assets, unlike Americans who often rely on easily sold investments, which can erode long-term family wealth. He suggests that adopting a mindset focused on enduring, illiquid assets like land—or even Bitcoin as a “hard asset”—could help Americans build lasting legacies and counter the high-debt, fleeting wealth culture prevalent today. Tanner’s insights offer a perspective on creating meaningful financial continuity amid modern economic challenges.

Best Quotes

1. “The Percy family has owned land for centuries because it’s about more than money; it’s history, family, and legacy.”
2. "When capital gains and dividends are taxed lower than income, catching up with the wealthy becomes nearly impossible."
3. "Bitcoin is good for storing value, but as a currency, deflation can be a problem for societies where debt is essential."
4. “Today’s wealth managers lack connection to local communities, unlike the British aristocrats who invested directly in their people.”
5. “It’s hard to advocate for your country when it’s one you see as unworthy of preservation.”

Sponsors

Conclusion

Will Tanner explores diverse approaches to wealth-building, highlighting the British aristocracy’s focus on land and family continuity as key to sustaining generational wealth. Tanner suggests that Americans can benefit from these historical principles, even as new assets like Bitcoin emerge, by prioritizing community, strategic investment, and long-term asset retention. His insights call for a shift in perspective, viewing wealth as a legacy to support future generations, grounded in continuity and purpose-driven financial planning.

Timestamps

0:00 - Intro
0:48 - Trump’s victory proving the media obsolete
8:40 - Unsuccessful American color revolution
11:49 - Bitkey & Coinkite
13:47 - What’s next and will we get rugged?
18:31 - MAHA is beautiful, socialism is ugly
25:19 - Immigration issues
31:28 - SOTE
32:00 - Lessons from El Salvador
35:42 - Easy money dissolves competence
41:03 - Bitcoin
47:42 - Putting generational wealth to work
58:24 - Bill Gates & problems with philanthropy
1:05:17 - The values of the gentleman
1:10:16 - Trump's tax plan and the history of the income tax
1:19:17 - We’re gonna win with better propaganda

Transcript

(00:00) the Percy family had owned this estate since William the Conqueror or since any of the plantagenet Kings so they're not going to sell any acreage they're not going to sell Allwood Castle which is where Harry Potter was filmed because they've owned that castle for a thousand years today's guest will Tanner writer at American Tribune reveals the hidden patterns of how old money families maintain wealth for generations and why Americans keep failing at it oh I like Bitcoin I I think it's really good as a store of value I think the problem with
(00:27) it is a currency you see under Trump a return of what you saw McKinley which is American Prosperity when capital gains and dividends are taxed at a lower rate than income that makes it impossible to ever catch up with the wealthy no matter how well you do you just can't what a day oh yeah I'm going on two hours asleep right now I don't know about you four four I'm very happy I mean I didn't even think about it when we originally scheduled this that would be the day after the election and even if I was cognizant I
(01:08) think up until 1000 p.m. central last night I was pretty sure it was going to take days if not a week to figure out the results MH of the election but as it stands today 1 p.m. central November 6 2024 we have a clear winner Donald Trump will be the 47th president of the United States and I don't know about you but I'm honestly shocked with how Swift of a victory it was last night yeah I mean I saw they called Michigan like an hour ago and I thought that was going to be one of the states where like a month from now
(01:39) they'd still be finding ballots in mailboxes or whatever it's just shocking it happened so quickly I really wasn't expecting that to go that way neither was I and so I mean I've been following you on Twitter I think for the better part of a year now the work you're doing at the American Tribune and the uh ideas you have particularly around RH and trying to uh make people aware that we should not allow the South africanization uh of the United States to to occur and it seems like the election yesterday was this point uh a fork in the road if you
(02:15) will where we could continue down overt woke socialist politics or sort of wipe the board clean or at least create the potential to wipe the board clean to to go down a path built a ocracy and in free markets and so what do what do you think based off of all the work that you've done and the topics so you focus on the the implications uh and the gravity of the decision that that Americans made in the last 12 hours has on the future of this country yeah I think this was a much bigger decision than it would have been
(02:52) in 2020 I I that whole election was just a mess but in the end it might have been better that he lost just cuz I think the past four years really put things in Stark relief or even if you're not a particularly partisan person which I think fewer of us are now than perhaps in the 90s on one hand you just have the race communism of South Africa it's not particularly racial and its participants there's all sorts of people on both sides but just in the Outlook of things I mean camela is really the standard bearer of that in the same way that
(03:24) Mandela or Mugabe were but then on the other side it's really interesting because you have people like Elon Musk and I think that was one of the bigger stories of this election was that Elon from South Africa grew up there saw how everything turned out in that country he pretty strongly took a stand just all of a sudden a couple months ago where he said we're not doing this anymore America isn't just drowning in this he calls it equity which is another correct word system of the sort camela wants we're gon to fight back and we're gonna
(03:56) make it to Mars and I really do think Mars is the best example of you know where things will go if you get the meritocratic capitalist system you're talking about because on one hand or one side you have the people who want the global flla just everywhere completely leveled egalitarian a mess there's nothing good about it there's no achievement it's just squalor but then on the other side you have the opposite you have hierarchy which creates great things as we've seen I think the greatest thing it will do in
(04:28) the near future is make it to Mars and I think I think the American people pretty resoundingly in this election chose Mars over the flla yeah I mean last night was an indictment not only of the incumbent policies or the policies of the incumbent Administration and the trend that we've been going down I mean I would say for for many decades but really accelerated postco um with BLM riots and uh the bailouts and uh the handouts that have been given PPP loans and um Not only was last night an indictment of the incumbent Administration their
(05:07) policies and where they want to take the country um there seems to be like a natural revulsion to that um but it's an indictment of the media too which tried to masquerade and put a facade on that that widespread revulsion that many Americans have about these policies and they tried to use their platforms to project that that simply was not the case and that people that had these natural revulsions are simply racist and um are part of the patriarchy trying to hold back progress if you will and I that's I mean Trump getting back into
(05:45) office and as a bitcoiner somebody who focuses on bitcoin runs a fund investing in Bitcoin companies from a regulatory perspective the Trump incoming Trump Administration is way more favorable for for my industry compared to kamala's um Administration which has attacked the banking industry that is supporting uh the Bitcoin industry and the fact that the media has been completely delegitimized I mean the the propaganda campaign that the American public has been subjected to for the better part of 150 days since Cala um
(06:24) was sort of placed in the position of of candidacy uh it was one of the strongest pushes ever and last night's results showed that it had essentially no effect on public perception if anything it was negative I mean I can't think of a mainstream media interview for either candidate that was positive I camela had a few that were just utter disasters Trump had a few that didn't really matter but it was really the alternative media that made a positive difference for candidates that camela was hammered for not going on
(06:55) Rogan I'm interested in seeing exit polling and how many or how many people's opinions changed because she didn't go on there but then I think Rogan and Vance got a huge boost not even because of what they said when they went on but just because they went on and were able to have a three-hour conversation I think people were surprised that politicians could do that just since you know everyone for the past couple decades has been so awful well that I mean JD Vance particularly zoning in on some propaganda I mean he became the vice
(07:26) president uh candidate right after July 30 13th right after the assassination attempt and they came out with like oh this guy's weird and tried to like say that he was banging couches and stuff like that and I I think not only that interview but many other interviews he's done whether it's on Allin or um stump speeches if if you actually take the time to sit down and listen to him he seems like a pretty sensible articulate smart individual and the whole weird label that they tried to thrust on them completely fell flat especially when you
(07:59) consider vice president that that Cala picked with Tim Waltz who's objectively one of the weirder candidates I've seen on stage in my life yeah it wasn't brought up how waltz's anniversary is the Tian Square massacre I like I think one media Outlet reported on it and he said it's because he wanted a day to remember which they never followed up on and you know that that's objectively weirder than having a German shepher like Vance does or just being otherwise I I Vance just seems like a normal guy even if they think his
(08:30) patterns are weird which I don't think they are but Waltz just has a lot of baggage and so does camela but of course that was never brought up which is another big indictment of the mainstream media yeah what do you think do you think we avoided are we in the process of avoiding a color Revolution that has been uh attempted on the American public for some time now yeah I think they more or less succeeded with one in 2020 if you look at what happened there they were all the rioter for months Trump wanted to call it the National Guard or
(09:01) Army and there are a number of generals Who Behind the Scenes just told Trump that the Army wouldn't follow orders if he told them to put down the riots which I say what you will about the policy of sending in the National Guard but I think when you have generals refusing to follow orders and then the media praising them for it as large revolts are happening across the big cities that's more or less a color Revolution and I think with this they're trying to solidify it because you know people talk about the lion and fox dichotomy were on
(09:29) one hand you have people like Richard the lionhardt who are just able to influence things with their strength and vigor but then nowadays you have the foxes the people who try and manipulate things behind the scenes and are averse to using Force openly and so they don't want to do that and they wanted to solidify it by saying you know see the American people back camela and equity and gay race communism which they didn't they voted against that and I think that really put the breaks on the solidification of the color Revolution
(09:57) and is going to start rolling it back because they don't want to use forc to enforce it and since they're not going to do that if they can't manipulate things behind the scenes it's just kind of over and unraveling yeah is there something unique about Americans and American culture that enabled the stopping this cover color Revolution happen could have happened somewhere else or is there something unique to our identity in our culture that that sort of was ignited in the bellies of American citizens that that led to to
(10:30) this decision yeah I think it's a weird thing cuz you know one advantage or weakness has that Europe has over America or against America is that it's its countries are generally of one people whether it's the checks or the Germans or the poles so if you get the ball rolling there like they did in Ukraine with the color Revolution there it's pretty easy to kind of get things to pick up steam because if the message strikes home with one person it's probably going to strike home with the remaining 30 million or however many
(11:00) there are whereas in America I mean you have some English you have some Scots Irish you have some actual Irish and then just you know all the different people from Central Europe Eastern Europe Africa so there is a great deal of ethnic diversity there which has its pluses and minuses but one of the pluses for this is there's not really a message that strikes home with that many people other than the blandest things or just generally positive things like I think deregulation and low taxes tend to do pretty well with most groups but uh you
(11:30) know overthrow your government and go ride in the streets and loot your local Macy's that doesn't really strike home with 70% of the population or whatever you need to get a big Riot type thing going whereas with the Arab Spring if it's in Syria and you're just getting syrians going you're just getting egyptions going that's a much different calculus and I think a could bit easier so freaks this rip of tftc was brought to you by our good friends at bit key bit key makes Bitcoin easy to use and hard to lose it is a hardware wallet
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(13:44) com use the code tftc we have a code now tftc for 5% off at checkout so where do you think we go from here like what are the potential paths we have or maybe another way to frame it is where where would you like to see us go from here it seems like the administration is making some pretty quick moves um I mean I don't think the votes are even done being counted I just saw a tweet come across my tweet deck that um Joel Salon has been tapped on the shoulder to um operate within the USDA so it seems like they're they're already moving to to place people to
(14:20) make the systemic changes that they promised uh during their their campaign yeah I think the first thing you're going to see is a repeat of Twitter where if you remember Elon bought it and everyone said oh this is going to fail and then he just fired like 80% of the workforce and said go home because you're awful and they went home and they were awful so now Twitter works as well or better as it did beforehand but at you know 10% of the cost or some just you know obscene number because he got rid of all the dead weight I think that's one of the
(14:48) first things you're going to see from them he's putting Elon in charge of the Department of government efficiency and they have people like Joel salatin who are used to being not part of the mainstream even if they're highly popular they're not one of the big beef producers like JBL or um Tyson or you know anything like that he's a normal guy who just runs a ranch so I think what you're going to see is a cutting out of a lot of the Deadwood of centralization or at least that's what I'd like to see and then you'll see
(15:13) people who are competent do the things that need to be done well so instead of having the Pentagon flail around in the Middle East for two decades and lose you'll have Eric Prince do it in a year and do it well and then either remain and make it a profitable venture or just get out if it if you need to stay or need to get out depending um it's hard to predict what exactly will happen because you never know what wars are going to break out or you what economic condition is going to present itself but I think generally what you'll see is the
(15:41) people of that mold who are quite competent people start to take over some things and get rid of the Deadwood under them because they don't need large bureaucracies to get done what they want to get done yeah it would be good to see competent people in positions of power dictating policy and helping to cut cost NASA could do space things instead of just putting rainbow Flags outside its buildings that' be cool it's it's I don't do you have the S like I have the sense now have had even in the leadup too the election yesterday is like
(16:13) there's got to be a moment where we get rug pulled like do you think this is is this going to affect actual change or are we getting our hopes up because that's one thing I was um a long time staunch many would Define as a Libertarian who was like I'm not going to vote voting doesn't make a decision but this year and I have two young children now and I think becoming a father and um looking out at the world and trying to project what it will be like when they grow up has really forced me to uh look internally and and think
(16:46) about the decisions of how I'm affecting change in the world that they're growing up in and I felt compelled to go out and voice my opinion with a vote yesterday in support of trump and um the sort of uh vision of the future that he and the team he assembled represents um but that libertarian in the back of my mind is like did I just vote and for an eventual rug pole you know I think if he had won in 2020 that would have just been another rug pole and that's if you look at the people around him then it's all
(17:22) PE there was no one in his administration who didn't try and stab him in the back other than maybe Steve Bannon but Bannon was also just an attention Hound who wasn't really doing much whereas now if you look at the people who surrounded Trump it's no longer the old RNC establishment people like rince prus it's instead Elon VC Vance teal Eric Prince which is a really different set of people and I think the difference there is that not only are they competent and can get things done as opposed to just having been political
(17:54) apparat all their lives but they also have a vision of things they want to achieve like Elon wants to get to Mars and cut the Deadwood to get there I think Vance kind of wants to restore the old 1980s America we'll see how successful he's in that and Prince really wants a decentralized government with a lot of privatized arms that do interesting things and have the power to do interesting things abroad so how well it will turn out I think well but we'll see but I do think they'll actually achieve things this
(18:24) time rather than it just be a continual mess that only results in cuts for corporations that donate to Democrats yeah and I think that's why I was drawn to the message and the vision put forth by this Coalition MH like leaning into Maha specifically like make America healthy again like that's not something you do overnight and I think RFK and everybody pushing the Maha movement has this recognition that this isn't going to be um something that happens overnight like if you're going to fix the health of an entire nation it's
(19:00) going to take time and so there's this inherent lowering of time preference that comes along with a goal like make America healthy again and that is what I've been focused on in Bitcoin for over a decade now is I believe we need sound money in the digital age so that we can allocate Capital appropriately and have a money that actually stores value over time so we can lower our time preference and aim to achieve um harder goals that take more time and uh inevitably lead to a higher quality of life higher quality
(19:35) Goods higher quality services for for individuals in the long term yeah I I totally agree I think you one thing that adds credibility is when the people pushing something obviously live it out themselves and Kennedy for whatever his earlier drug problems is now a very healthy person for how old he is he still does like he has that funny video where he's doing the uh the bench press and jeans or whatever and he's out on the beach and it's like a sunny day and he looks good so he's just a healthy person he's a normal guy that lifts
(20:05) weights and you know opposed to whoever would be running the government Health bureaucracy in past years like the Belgian he Health Minister meme you know he's he actually is healthy so it makes sense that he'd make America healthy again Rachel LaVine that is the the yeah the other like going back to like American culture like was this just and even though the propaganda was strong but did it get to a point where it was just so again repulsive literally ugly at Rachel LaVine as the head of Department of Health who is a literal
(20:36) man pretending to be a woman it does not look healthy at all that is the image of the person that is controlling the healthc care system in America and it's like it it almost feels like there's just like I mean everybody says Vibe shift but just this this like uh like many people independently came to the conclusion without even articulating it many people were articulating it publicly but I think many people in the silent majority were just in their heads like this has gotten so insane so ugly we need we need a a
(21:14) vision of strength and beauty and vitality that we can move towards and that's obviously become a big subculture on Twitter over the last years is this Vitality movement anti- seed oils Sun steel Sun your balls all that stuff yeah and you know one thing like ever since World War II the buildings have been getting uglier and uglier uh the guy who wrote James Bond Ian Fleming famously made the bad guy named Goldfinger because erno Goldfinger was a brutalist architect who was making London ugly and Fleming hated it so much
(21:43) that he made the bad guy named after him and it's only gotten worse since then but around the 2000s maybe or late 90s the people started getting ugly as well on like a large scale whether that was because of seed oils or lithium in the water atrazine and gly faade I have no idea but they did and I think that's when it just came in and it kind of hit critical mass with the like lockdowns of 2020 where all these people who aren't healthy at all are telling you you're not allowed to have a social life or go out to bars and have to wear mask
(22:14) because they're scared for their health and I think people just couldn't do it anymore it's too much the buildings are ugly the people are ugly the people wear just awful clothes Marvel T-shirts instead of Suits or Blazers it's just a ugly world we live in now and I think people really hate it and Trump and Kennedy and the others really stand against that Trump always dresses like a successful businessman he had that executive order where all federal buildings had to be designed in the neoc classical style Vance dresses pretty
(22:45) well and lost some weight and grew a nice beard RFK like I said lifts weights and is a pretty healthy guy so a very different movement and like you said it's a vitalist one and I think the uh idea of beauty is important I think also have you heard the term bioleninism yes yeah I think spandrel coining that term and just promulgating it helped people put their finger on it and just describe what's going on in a way that was very helpful because it sounds bad to be like oh everyone in the government's fat which is true but not particularly
(23:16) helpful whereas to say yeah we're operating on a pretty Biol leninist system I think that is a more accurate descriptor and people are a little bit more comfortable saying it well that I mean because not only is it like visually ugly and physically ugly but the the ideas are ugly as well go back to equity and communism and the divisive nature of the the politics um of the left recently is every there's a boogeyman they're taking money from you they're taking opportunity from you we need to level the playing field and
(23:53) basically prevent people from succeeding and the world is [ __ ] um it's because of these people who have success and it's just not a good it's an ugly mental framework from which to operate uh and to sort of plant that mental framework into the minds of the masses which has been done pretty successfully by the mainstream media apparatus over the course of the last three decades yeah it has and it's it's a weird thing because you asked earlier if there's some resistance America has to these color revolutions I think one
(24:29) thing it does have or used to have a resistance to is any form of Socialism Eugene Debs was never never pretty popular FDR cloaked his socialist reforms in the guys of being patriotic we've had an ownership culture not a socialist one and I uh I just think that kind of changes this sort of thing around where they've tried to push these messages but because people own their houses own their cars used to have kids there's just a little bit more resistance to these things where like you said these ideas are ugly and I think people are a little
(25:03) bit a easier able to say this is awful this is just an ugly idea and really really bad because they don't want to see their house taken away to house some migrant family or you know whatever the Socialist policy would be that I think England was temporarily doing that they just don't want that hair yeah I mean that's a thread you wrote today about how do we what are the loow hanging fruits that this Administration can go over or go after without uh with relative ease in terms of having to get through red tape and
(25:34) push things through um the house and the Senate and immigration is one of those and that has obviously been one of the bigger topics leading up to the election last night was immigration two diametrically opposed views of what to do one open borders let everybody in the other uh we're going to close the borders and we're actually going to send some of them back and the sending back part is is or was used by the media as a boogeyman of I mean you mentioned it in your thread the inciting visions of rounding people
(26:09) up putting them on buses and and sending them back but I think your thread was pretty insightful um in the sense that it highlighted just some very low hanging fruit economic policies that you could Institute or regulations that you can Institute in terms of verifying um whether or not a worker is actually an American citizen that could lead to um people self- deporting themselves yeah the it's one of these things where a lot of people want something to happen but that have not really ever thought through how they get
(26:40) there the IM illegal immigration thing is the big example because pretty consistently went pulled Americans say they don't really want illegal immigrants either here or getting into the country which is probably true they don't want them here but then as soon as anyone tries to fix that the media just conjures up like you said images of of train cars and camps which no one wants either even though that's never what's happening so you have to look at ways to get these people to self-deport and just decide that it's much better off for
(27:08) them to be in Guatemala or Honduras or Haiti or whever instead of America which I understand that Hai is a pretty tough cell but the others I think you could get through and so it's you can cut off their access to welfare programs which most people don't know but legal immigrants can access a large slew of the welfare programs particularly if they birth a child on American soil who's then counted as American citizen a lot of the uh Health and Welfare style stuff they're then eligible for similarly you can pass e verifi and make
(27:39) it mandatory across the states for any hiring whatsoever whether it's a contract or an employee temporary position you can just force them to do it and pair that with stiff penalties for employers where then it's never worth it for an employer to hire these people so at the point where they can't access welfare and can't access a job they pretty much have to leave you can also tax remittance payments which really gets rid of the reason for being here because a lot of the money is sent out on on net base it's about $150
(28:08) billion dollar a year so you couldn't tax the Bitcoin transactions if they ever figured that out but generally they just use Western Union so it'd be pretty easy to tax so there just a few things you could do that would be very simple probably wouldn't even require Congressional approval or Congressional lawmaking e verifi would maybe be the one that did but the others you could just do any anyway and it would just get people to self-deport where there's no trained cars there's no buses it's just people leaving and the problem kind of
(28:36) solves itself and I think it'd be helpful for a wage growth it' be a Spur to wage growth because they no longer be the depressant of it's probably around 30 million people here illegally right now as best I'm able to tell and it would also reduce the cost of housing which is a major issue for Americans right now because there are 30 million people that don't need housing anymore that's close to 10% of the population which is material it's probably between seven and 8% um that's nothing to scoff at that it has a material effect on
(29:07) right the economics of individual citizens and I think the the housing cost because that was the the big worry um and and Jerome pal said this explicitly a few months ago I don't think he should have said it but he essentially admitted we've been let letting these illegal immigrants come in because it it leads to lower wage growth which T tapers inflation a bit um and I guess that's the big worry U from an economic perspective is if um you have the illegal immigrant Workforce population moving back to their homes
(29:44) and and wage growth is allowed to naturally rise As Americans overtake those jobs how do you counteract that and I think you made a very good point in the thread is that if you have tens of millions of people leaving areas where the renting houses or buying houses um that's going to that's going to lead to lower cost of housing which should negate that that rise in wages from an inflationary perspective right and one issue with the inflation argument which I totally see what they're saying there it's accurate in
(30:15) some respects is like the problem with inflation is generally that you're then able to buy fewer things on your salary which makes sense of course but for salaried people where their wages are going up I think generally wages would rise faster than the cost of most goods and even then particularly over the long term I think that would happen and also what you get is when more people are working and more is being produced and less money is being remitted there's just a lot more money flowing into the economy whether it's
(30:43) savings or consumer purchases that I think would be a Spur to real economic growth as opposed to what we have now where a lot of people are either on a government check or working some sort of service job as legal immigrants do the things in the real world economy whether it's meat packing or house building or you whatever I just think you need some of these spurs to get back to the real world and real world goods and real world economy we can't just all sell each other like substack subscriptions and hotel reservations someone has to do
(31:12) something in the real world and I think it'd be much better if it was American citizens making a living wage as opposed to something approaching slave labor that's just brought in and abused from various places abroad that should have those people there working hard and making those countries better so they're a more pleasant place to live this rip was also brought to you by our good friends at salt of the earth you got to be hydrating Freaks and while you're hydrating you got to be getting your electrolytes this is the best
(31:36) electrolytes mix that I've ever come into contact with uh Pink Himalayan salt with calcium magnesium potassium sodium no sugar it tastes incredible my favorite is the orange and the pink lemonade go to drink.com at drinks.com use the code tftc when you make your purchase and you'll get 15% off I'm telling you get on it freaks you're going to love this stuff that's another um when it comes to the immigration discussion like a lot of people like oh they can't go back to their country the country is terrible and it's like well
(32:13) we have I think El Salvador is a perfect example where you had B come in a few years ago and now they have reversed diaspora people are are going back to El Salvador because bu has given individual Salvadoran citizens the confidence to go back because he created a stable environment crime is down went from the most dangerous to the safest country in the world in a very short period of time they have very um lack economic policy that is trying to Spur growth and um job creation within the borders of El Salvador and that that is a perfect
(32:49) model it's like we should be going to every other country and say do what El Salvador is doing and um create a safe environment and a tax environment where people actually want to grow the economy create jobs and it creates an environment where people don't want to leave and feel compelled to go to America to to work and send money back home yeah it's interesting there's a really good book called uh El Norte or bust I forget the author's name but he describes the debt bubble that ensues when a large number of people are going
(33:23) to the United States from one of these communities and how it just ends in disaster I think his Focus was on the 08 recession and how it just eviscerated uh do you remember what country they're from Bolivia or somewhere believe say yeah okay yeah and you just a total wreck which none of it needed to happen they could have just stayed there and focused on building a business there if the policies were right uh there's uh doodo I think wrote a book about property rights in South America and how you could tweak some things to
(33:49) make it better I forget the book's name now but there's just you know like you could make policy tweaks in America to solve the illegal immigration problem I think you could make some pretty easy tweaks and some of these Central and South American countries to Spur business and you know one of the problems with mass democracy is it really has a hard time looking at the day after tomorrow it has trouble making these long-term investments in a way that the pre-reform or at least pre 1914 or so 1911 aristocratic governments didn't I
(34:20) think with buele and Malay and Orban and I think it's lonstein that's ruled by its King again because they just got tired of democratic squabbling you're seeing a return to some of this long-term thinking where Buel says you know yes it's going to be painful for a month as we lock up these MS13 gangsters but on the other head they the other hand they behead people and they worship Satan and it's going to really be a Spur to every good aspect of El Salvador if we lock them up so maybe we should spend the $20 million or
(34:49) whatever it was to build a large prison and just lock them up instead of having to deal with just these continual problems of trying to lessen the just present amount of pain you're feeling so I think El Salvador is really seeing that which is great some of these other countries you could probably spur them into it the big problem is you need to get America to start thinking that way which perhaps Elon teal Prince that crowd will be able to but I think that's going to be one of the big challenges for the Trump Administration is you you
(35:19) need this change mindset that is willing to do long-term investment because that's what Built America in the guilded age is people like Carnegie willing to invest large sums of money in the real world which you haven't gotten since I don't know the 50s or 60s and it's starting to bite so we need that again and how they get there is I think going to be one of the big problems or one big challenge for them to focus on what do you think in regards of as it pertains to having these long-term oriented goals that require big upfront
(35:55) Investments like what what are some of the areas you think we need those most pressingly right now um Material Science is a big one if one thing if you look at like Gulf Stream Jets they used to make pretty big advances and since it's a private market for very wealthy people you can just expect them to produce the best thing for the I think there was the transition from the five to the six they spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to make it more fuel efficient longer range all that they made marginal
(36:25) changes at best there wasn't really anything they could do and the was that Material Sciences hadn't Advanced whatsoever so they couldn't do anything so it's um this corporate R&D just long-term investment inside corporations like Bill Labs used to do or like Edison was known for doing you need to bring that back uh and I think that's one of the big examples would be Material Science where you can do that I think also the shift away from software as a service companies maybe with the exception of paler back into hardtech
(36:57) whether it's what's that defense startup that's doing well I always forget its name but andril yeah andril or hadrien which is doing the same thing with machine tooling I believe and small nuclear reactors or small modular reactors for nuclear plants I think that sort of thing where it's um somewhat new and has a tech flavor so it gets people excited even though it's really just an iteration of some pretty old technology I think that'd be pretty cool it's going to require a lot of capital investment and a lot of kind of long-term just
(37:27) money pits but I think it'll prove profitable in the end and I think also it'll be large enough steps forward that people are comfortable or get more comfortable with uh pouring money into something I think also though like you mentioned you need something approaching a harder money at least compared to other world currencies to get people to do that because otherwise it's always just going to be the uh constant grind against perceived inflation which I mean that's I was just going to highlight Boeing as a perfect
(37:55) example like the combination of ESG Dei and the perverse incentives that have been introduced to the market via money Printing and debt expansion which is Boeing had uh essentially the the triple threat of adopting all three is they fired the engineers in the SE suite and brought in Mackenzie Consultants who had never built anything in their lives and um they just became beholden to quarterly financials and uh stock price appreciation at all cost um and so instead of investing their cash balances and long-term R&D that would produce um
(38:38) better better um better products Aerospace products uh decade on decade they instead took that cash bought their stock back to lower the denominator of their floating share price so that the stock price would go up and they'd be able to get the bonuses and that has resulted in Planes literally falling out of the sky and the astronauts getting getting stuck in space it's like a perfect microcosm of the lack of long-term investment incited by easy money and perverse incentives because of the monetary system leading to terrible
(39:11) outcomes yeah it's one of these weird things that starts happening with easy money I corporations of course behaved badly on the gold standard there's credit mobilia and the railroads and all that it was a different type of Behaving Badly though cuz they still actually built railroads that did things you know you can screw around with the financials of a steel plant but if it's still producing steel then it doesn't really matter that much which they had to do it had to produce something whereas now there's so many of these
(39:38) tech companies at Boeing the planes no longer work which is horrible but I think how many software companies have never made a profit never will and they've just been evaporating this easy money because periodically it'll Spike they can sell it it's a big problem I and it also shows like there's something about the current iteration of mass democracy where the institions under it will just start wearing the skin suits of their former for completely different purpose public companies are a great example of that I mean public companies
(40:08) used to really produce American Wealth in the real economy and do things whether it was the railroads or the shipping companies just you know the things you think of when you think of the guilded age railroads steam ships steel plants coal mines it was they had their issues but they did stuff whereas now public companies pretty much exist solely to push Dei the workforces and like host dystopian pizza parties for the remaining employees it's really weird and uh Boeing's just the perfect example where it's this company that
(40:37) should be a prime American company and probably would be if it was a private company like SpaceX but instead they're just dedicated to quarterly financials so they do absolutely nothing except try and appease the ESG people and you like you said buy their shares back to fiddle with the financials it's a mess the whole skin suit thing is one of the bigger problems and that's another thing we're going to have to get past but I think for that it's just private companies are probably a lot better at it yeah what are your
(41:04) thoughts on bitcoin oh I like Bitcoin I I think it's really good as a store of value I I think the problem with it is a currency is if you look at the late 19th century with William Jennings Bryan and the silver movement when the gold Supply hadn't expanded for a while because this was post 49ers but pre the gold mines in the Rand in Australia people were getting pretty fed up with how money was it might have been good for them but it it created an unstable political environment and the constant depreciation in Goods prices
(41:37) particularly agricultural Goods it caused a lot of problems for the farmers and for the parts of the economy related to that so I I think you know being able to save your money and store wealth which Bitcoin enables in a way that you know uh ETFs and publicly traded shares don't is a great thing I think the problem though is for currencies and really a society in which debt is involved you don't need inflation but deflation is a serious problem just because it makes debt so expensive and somewhat unpredictably expensive if
(42:12) prices fall at an increasing rate so I think that's the hurdle you'd have to get past I don't really know enough about economics to solve that I wish I could but I I just you know William Jennings Bryant really didn't win only because the Rand mines were opened up and just produced a large amount of gold that released the social tension and solved the issue which I think is a similar problem you'd get to if Bitcoin actually became a currency people used and debt was denominated in yeah that's the um particularly while bitcoin's
(42:46) monetizing like if you're going to go into Bitcoin denominated debt um at a 1.5 trillion dollar market cap now many people think look at a multi hundred trillion dollar market cap some point in the future and be extremely liquid Market best liquid Market on the planet but yeah if you were to take out Bitcoin denominated debt now and try to paid that back as bitcoin's monetized in between now that multi hundred trillion dollar market cap it would be insane and I guess that's one of the ideas that um bitcoiners definitely recognize
(43:18) that and I think or not bitcoiners there's many um Bitcoin is focused on the economic impact of of Bitcoin as a monetary very good in the economy that I've thought about this and I guess that's a big question like um will debt just be limited to a certain level and you'll basically be engaged in equity based um economy where people investing in companies um or if you're going to give money to somebody you're essentially getting equity in that project and getting dividends on that versus issuing debt to get paid back um
(43:55) in the future yeah um whether it's dividends or interest on debt I think the problem is that even though as a society we've largely moved to capital gains is a marker of success rather than the income generated by the capital which for a long time for British Estates for example if you ever read Pride and Prejudice or see the movie people are treated in terms of like the value of their state but the value is the income generated by it so 10,000 which would now be like $300,000 $500,000 income was a large amount obviously but that wasn't
(44:30) the capital value of the land that was the income generated by it and I think you still need that because people don't really like selling assets to fund lifestyle because that just introduces the whole creep of well I can sell one more share or one more Bond and it won't be a big issue but then soon enough they're all gone whereas if there's income sustainably generated by it it's much better situation because it lasts indefinitely and you never have to sell the asset and you're not tempted to sell the asset so I think that's another just
(44:56) problem for Bitcoin is is I really like it as a saving saving mechanism for wealth but when there's no income generated by it you can never rely on it to live on unless you're planning on selling it which if it's going up in value seems like a bad decision so I just there the income issue and the deflation issue I think turn into issues where once it's monetized fully and things are settled it's not so much a problem but as it's going up it's just hard to generate income on something like that that involve selling the asset
(45:29) yeah that's I guess that's a big um a big Theory or thesis that many big Quinter I going back to government waste waste of BOE the the dystopian pizza parties that are just wasting money um that is available because of the way in which the Fiat monetary system works I mean just look at the federal government we had our jobs report last week came in well under expectations expected 100,000 jobs 12 12 jobs were added to the economy and if you took out government jobs it would have been negative 63,000 jobs and were lost or 63,000 jobs were
(46:06) lost um last month and I think highlighting the fact that government jobs are the leading cause of job growth in in recent months and recent years I mean that that is literal waste as people aren't doing anything productive that's the idea and one of the thesis is that if you bring back sound money people will just be forced to go out and be productive throughout the economy and so obviously not produce an income um via Bitcoin the asset itself but go use Bitcoin and capital accumulation to start a business or figure out how to
(46:42) get an income stream by selling goods and services that funds a lifestyle that hopefully allows you to build a bit bigger Bitcoin stack over time yeah we'll see I just um yeah a lot of people I think work hard with the idea of being able to retire whether that's the conventional retirement in the 60s or and the new thing is trying to work hard enough to be able to do it just when you want to do it when you're financially free I think it's hard to be financially free really ever on a non-income producing asset because
(47:15) you're gonna have to sell it which you never know how that's going to turn out so I just the uh the whole dividends issue or interest issue I think is an interesting one just because whether or not it's good or bad is a separate issue but as a matter of of just psychology of successful people I think people like being able to rely on something that's coming in rather than that involves clicking the sell button yeah I agree there I mean and we're getting into sort of the nitty-gritty of the topic why I originally reached out to have you on
(47:46) the show it's just this idea of like wealth accumulation and passing along um through generations and something that many big winners of thinking about myself personally thinking about as I'm building this business um The Venture fund and um watching Bitcoin go up in price is and it's an art and a practice that I think has been been lost throughout time particularly as Fiat money has corrupted things and we have this ugly Society where the inheritors of wealth um don't have uh the correct mindset to actually
(48:21) Steward grow and pass that that wealth down through through multiple Generations into the future and um he sent me a paper and it was just really interesting to see how wealth accumulation and the passing down of that wealth has evolved over time and the factors that have really perturbed the ability for individuals to do that and families to do that over time yeah it so just just a little bit of background because it's a very odd specific subject I just finished up law school in May and the last little bit of
(48:51) law school is really boring because you're not doing much so I was just since I still had a school account I was poking around on J store trying to figure out if there are any papers on what the old families in England that have survived put their money in because it is I think it's an interesting subject of how say the Percy family has been powerful in England for a thousand years and remained that way the groer family similarly or the manners family they all came across with William the Conqueror in 1066 or 67 with the perc
(49:18) and they're still wealthy which is interesting and if you look at this paper I think it's called TR trajectories of aristocratic wealth what you find is that the only amilies really in England who survived the death tax regime of the 19th century which was introduced in a large Way by Lloyd George and Winston Churchill in the 1909 people's budget and then became a big issue with the parliament bill of 1911 which took away the power of the House of Lords to V to any legislation then World War I World War II things got
(49:47) expensive so death taxes shot up to in the 60s it was 90% under Harold Wilson so when you died 90% of the estate would just be confiscated uh that really destroyed a lot of families but if you look at the ones who survived the Peres the groer the marquesses of but it wasn't the ones who had been uh created as peers by Edward iith or Queen Victoria those families died out within a generation or two they just spent all the money it was gone near immediately however a certain number of families did survive and they were the
(50:20) ones who might have been considered except for the groer kind of poor in the late 1800s early 1900s because they mainly owned land rather than stocks or bonds but what that did is it encouraged them to never sell because if you have an estate of 100,000 acres really it's only valuable and maybe 10,000 acre blocks but it's hard to sell 300 acres because the legal costs just Mount or you don't get anything out of it particularly with the capital gains tax so they never sold they just held on to it and now because land has shot up in
(50:50) value with I think a problem is land being somewhat monetized as an asset just makes farming too expensive but ignoring all that they have gotten wealthy and they still have income streams from the land so these families still kind of act like noble families um a good example is the marquesses of Salsbury Lord Salsbury was famously the Prime Minister for Queen Victoria his great grandson I think the current Lord Salsbury is still the leader of the House of Lords or at least was until recently and is one of the more
(51:20) conservative rightwing members of the Lords so it's interesting they survived and they're stood wealthy and they're still acting like aristocrat rather than having to SC Dr for work doing you whatever so if you look at why they survived when the others failed It's really because they had an asset that they had a reason to hold on to and was difficult to sell so While others could just sell stock and a business that was once the family business but they had no attachment to the Percy family had owned this estate since William the Conqueror
(51:51) since any of the plantagenet Kings so they're not going to sell any ACD they're not going to sell on Allwood Castle which is where Harry Potter was filmed because they've owned that castle for a thousand years or probably closer to 700 so they're going to stay they're going to figure out a way to make it work and they're going to have some degree of family continuity and historical continuity with the land that encourages them to work hard to make it work as a thing which takes a lot of money The Duchess of Rutland was talking
(52:18) about Beaver castle where they live every year it costs half a million dollars just to keep the lights on probably more now with the cost of energy so that that takes a lot of kind of figuring things out particularly with the high taxes they have there but they did it and they succeeded and they overcame the death taxes and I think the reason is this just idea of purpose and continuity and the idea that selling is probably a bad idea because you're never going to get it back so you need to find a way to make it work without doing that
(52:46) so it's an interesting paper and they succeeded in it which I think is it's very long-winded I've been talking but the uh they Americans are really bad about that Americans always sell stuff my um great great grandparents were in New York in the guilded age and were in the New York 400 lost everything in the depression because they just sold it and spent it now now I'm working so annoyed but um the it joke but um yeah so I Americans are bad about that in the way that the British aren't so I think now that people are making a lot of money a
(53:17) Bitcoin is just a great example because it's the sudden wealth that really people accumulated particularly if they've been holding for a while now and so the question is like how do you act once do that in addition to no bless B which is I think a related but somewhat different subject uh there's this idea of Family Purpose and family continuity and connection with the past that they were able to build these landed families so the question is how do you build that as an American because it seems to have worked for them and fighting a pretty
(53:44) tyrannical socialist government yeah no as uh an Irish American with a pretty strong Irish Catholic Family from the Northeast I'm from Philadelphia originally and that's my mom was one of eight um I've got dozens of cousins and we're like brothers and sisters and that's um one thing I hold near and dear to my heart is every summer we all get together uh down the shore and we have this sort of culture within our family of you always go to the shore in the summer you hang out and now we're at the point where between myself my cousins we
(54:19) we have I think 20 kids under the age of 10 and they're growing out the same way that we did and um that's something I think about a lot is like how do we continue that and um being successful and having a certain amount of wealth probably is necessary and that's the other thing I can't remember was you or another paper I was reading but um sort of whether it's the aristocracy the aristocracy or uh aristocracy excuse me or um I've I'm on four hours of sleep right now so excuse me um or just like wealthy families in general
(54:53) like like what they should strive to do like you get wealthy I I believe it was you or another or maybe it was somebody was on your podcast recently it was probably Johan CTS he talk bit talking about the founding fathers and how they were able to strive for higher um Higher Goals because they had the the wealth of the land and um their family wealth that had been accumulated over the course of many generations and they were able to go seek out those higher purposes um starting the revolution um being Statesmen being uh um diplomats if you
(55:28) will or investing in city parks and in monuments and um once you accumulate that wealth is like how do you not only preserve it but then once you're able to preserve it what do you do what do you strive for yeah it's um I think Stormy Waters might be the person you're talk you're thinking of he's talked about this a good bit with the guilded age American aristocracy it one thing Americans also do differently is split up the wealth when they die and pass it on where's the British pass it in one entity whether
(55:59) it's to a trust or person through primogeniture isn't a law anymore but they still more or less act on that principle and what that does is if you're avoiding the taxes which they try to do through Dynasty trusts the money never gets split up so there ends up being a large degree income off it whether it's land or stocks or whatever it ends up being in a point that Randolph Churchill the son of Winston Churchill makes and his biography of his father is that Winston was really only only able to do what he did as a
(56:27) politician and writer because of the support granted him by his cousin the Duke of Marboro as Randolph puts it the the benefit of primogeniture is that impoverished Cadet branches can always reach out to their cousins for help it's it's a funny line like that which Winston was Shameless in doing just constantly but it really is a benefit because because the money's never split up it creates a surplus that can be used for better ends whether that's helping family or yourself serving in the government without drawing a salary or
(56:57) whatever random thing it is whether it's military service political service helping your family helping your community a large amount of money is a great thing just joking but the um the income and wealth I think generated by a one large pot rather than a diffused kind of spread out thing amongst people who don't really know or care why they have it uh ends up creating better outcomes because carnegi for example built pretty much all the libraries in America or at least all the pretty ones the brutalist ones he's not responsible
(57:28) for but the pretty ones he is and he only did that because he had a huge amount of money from selling American Steel and he thought that'd be a good thing to do or Rockefeller did a similar thing with churches there're just examples like that of these men who were able to do that whereas if you think about the money if they'd been operating on um whatever it's called now where the employees insist that the owners of the company should make them shareholders just for existing you're never going to get that because they don't care they'll
(57:54) just spend it on another truck or whatever which might be good for them because you know I I like my truck but you're not going to get the societal benefits uh from a diffused thing that there's no real attachment or connection to that you do from having purpose and creating something and using it towards an end rather than just for mere existence and that's a problem with our many of our modern oligarchs and plutocrats is you know Bill Gates doesn't she gonna ask how would you how would you uh dissect Bill Gates and what
(58:27) he's done with his wealth yeah it's um the problem philanthropy is really what like will uh Bill Gates and Buffett do were I'm sure they're good guys in some respects but there's never a connection if you're say sending like a hundred million dollar to Africa to buy mosquito Nets or whatever the uh what's the altruist thing effective altruism they always talk about mosquito Nets the problem is the natives ended up just using mosquito Nets the yeah so it killed off all the fish now they're starving again it's a huge
(59:00) problem and if you look at why that happened it's not just it's the stupid idea that they spent too much money on it's also that there was never an actual connection to the locality in which the money was being spent and the person who was spending it so Bill Gates this is just a tax write off for him in some positive press because he used to be known as just the worst of worst plutocrats and now he's the philanthropist but he doesn't have a connection to the village in Nigeria where they're buying mosquito Nets so he
(59:25) doesn't really care what's happening whereas if he was say an English Lord in 1850 and was like Lord Russell was known to do spending a great amount of money building better housing for his workers or agricultural workers he'd really care how the houses turned out because it reflected poorly on him if they're bad and Well on him if they did well it actually mattered both to the people in the community and whoever found out about it whereas Bill Gates is detached enough from his philanthropy that it doesn't matter it's not not only is it
(59:54) not his locality it's not his people it's not his community he's just detached from it and it doesn't matter to him other than that theoretically something good happened so I think that's really the problem with modern philanthropy and the plutocrats were known for their philanthropic Adventures they're not really doing good even if some of the things that do turn out well because there's no purpose to it it's not it's not community building it's not people building it's it's just a spending of money for tax write off at
(1:00:25) the end of the day yeah what do you think drives that the just a natural disconnection from community that has proliferated in recent times or um a recognition of we need to figure out our tax strategy and this is the easiest thing to do or combination of the two maybe yeah I think it's a longterm thing that particularly Anglo societies are known for there's a famous line in Dickens a telescopic telescop philanthropy where there's some woman who's at a church and all her children are starving and all the children around
(1:01:02) her are starving but she's going on and on about like the poor Natives and Sumatra or you know wherever halfway around the world and dickens's point was well maybe you should get a shirt for your like freezing to death boy because that's a that should be a bigger deal to you than that theoretically natives in Sumatra might be better off if they had British tea or whatever it is it's some I forget the story it's some ridiculous example but so that I think the impulse for philanthropy a world away where you don't have to deal with the consequences
(1:01:32) or implementation has really been this weird aspect of wealth building in the Eng world for a while I think the impulse to do on a massive scale is partly tax policy but then partly also just the liquid nature of the way wealth is built in modernity it used to be like Bill Gates if he' built Microsoft in 1870 would have sold it and invested it in an estate and become a landed G member of the landed gentry in shopshire and then focused on doing stuff in the village with the remaining wealth which is just a different mindset and leads to
(1:02:04) different things then Microsoft stock is highly liquid he could sell however many shares he wants tomorrow you have to organize it with JP Morgan if it was a large block of shares but could still do it uh it just creates different impulses and I think you see these things play out the bad habits of yester year still exist and they're just on a much grander scale now yeah so I guess what you're getting at is like you need to invest a good portion of your wealth into somewhat illiquid illiquid assets that force you to become
(1:02:40) grounded and connected to those assets and the locality in which they exist yeah the uh whether it has to be in the physical world I think is a question for example my I think I I have a treasure Ledger whatever it's called I got it a while ago like I said before I was as sleep for Bitcoin and I put when I had like a full Bitcoin I put it on the thing and said well I'll just keep that on there and never touch it that's a very different impulse than when it's just in your coinbase account or whatever and you can say well I want
(1:03:10) to sell it or I want to take up debt based on this Bitcoin which is probably a horrible idea etc etc but you can do it and the impulses do it because the you know button is there you can do it if you want whereas if it's on a thing where there's just even any friction between the asset existing in your possession and your ability to sell it probably for a consumer good of some sort that's a much better impulse because it's going to last I do think to some extent at least the connection between wealth and the world in which
(1:03:39) you live is probably a good thing um you know a great example is REITs versus actually owning houses in your neighborhood um bitcoin's probably a better asset in doing either of those things but if you own a re you don't really care about its practices if it's over people in Maricopa County you might on a general level dislike that but you don't really care as long as the return's good and the dividends good you're too detached from it whereas uh if you look at say you own four rental homes 10 minutes from your house same
(1:04:15) amount of money same amount of income there's a little bit more friction but if you're dealing with the people in those homes unless you're just cold-hearted of the most coldhearted of coldhearted people you know if their kid gets sick and they have to miss half of rent for a month you're probably not going to throw them out almost certainly you're not going to and you'll probably care about them and you know follow up see all the kids doing potentially try and help them it's a completely different thing it creates a different
(1:04:42) worldview you're tied to the community and the people in it again un unless you're just coldhearted and you'll probably eventually get your money back money back it's not going to be a huge deal whereas a large corporation is never going to do that and particularly a shareholder of a L Corporation isn't going to care so it's just a very different perspective and I think the connection of a large amount of wealth where you have the ability to afford some degree of nobless at least just creates better impulses in people and
(1:05:09) ends up leading to just uh better back and forth between the rich and the poor because they don't end up being quite as disconnected yeah do you think we can get back to uh a culture built around these practices it seems like we're pretty far away from this would you agree yes yeah I think one of the biggest or the two biggest problems probably are inflation and taxes like for example if you you know own an asset that produces a pretty steady amount of income and inflation is climbing up and 40% of it is being taxed
(1:05:41) away you're going to be a bit harder edged and harder nosed with what happens then if there aren't taxes and inflation is a problem you're just probably going to be better set and it's not going to impact you as much you're have a little bit more room to be nice and charitable I I just think it ends up creating even if you're not intentional about it a better mindset so I think if you got rid of those two things a lot of the bad impulses in private life would be ameliorated to some degree the problem though is even if you got rid of
(1:06:12) that you know the idea of the gentleman has died out almost completely like if you read the Jane Austin Books just the worldview of the people in that world from the day laborers to the Dukes was completely different because they understood duties and social responsibilities back and forth what they could expect from the world and what they expected to do for it I don't think you really have that now some people might there's still a great number of great people out there who care about this stuff and do it and
(1:06:40) live by it but you know would Warren Buffett you ever build you know a house better housing for Laborers in where does he live Omaha Omaha yeah maybe I don't really dislike Warren Buffett but it's just not the same mindset and no one ever taught him to live in a certain way so I just think you know that sort of thing you need a lot more propaganda really just about it and about why it's a good thing and social education about why it's a good thing to get it back so yeah that's what I was going to ask how do we bring back the gentleman I think
(1:07:13) chivalry is dead right now we need to revive it do we do we need to like spin up catian in every in every state in every city around the country yeah the um it's I don't think it would have died but for social conditions taxes and inflation are big thing the other thing is that a lot of this was meant for serving the state whether it was like being nice to the people in your village they wouldn't revolt and you didn't have to do the whole get on a horse and Fight The Peasant Revolt thing on the like worst end of things or just you know if your
(1:07:46) State's going to war and you're fighting the uh sudin or the bors you should sign up to be an officer because you're a privileged person how well that all worked is a different question but it was the impulse and they generally lived up to it the Duke of Westminster for example was the wealthiest person of his day and he was serving on Horseback in the bore War somewhat ineffectively but he was still doing his bit and being shot at you know they that only happens when people see the state worth serving whereas if the state is constantly like
(1:08:15) putting out videos like those horrible I don't know if you saw the military videos where it's like in the corporate cartoon style and it's the air defense female officer talking about how her two moms taught her to like go to G Pride parades and that's why she joined the Air Force not it's insane so when when you do that no one's going to be like well I'm wealthy so what I should really do is like go defend bakabazi in Afghanistan so that like I'm kind of unclear what the arm is doing in this thing I'm not I'm not
(1:08:45) going to do this I'll just pass and you know live in the Caribbean or whatever I I the whole like just get out of society or you really see it in um I know I'm jumping all over the place but the the whole um like move to the woods and be a subsistence farmer Homestead movement is absurd and OBS that's just a horrible decision for most people at least you're not you're not going to be happy you're not going to make any money but the I the impulse behind it I think is people just want to get away from society
(1:09:13) because they see it as evil and irredeemable and what people in the state are doing is just awful so I think people with wealth do on the whole generally want to do good things with it at least to some extent maybe not all the time you know like the prayer uh Lord make me no longer lustful but maybe not tonight um I I think that's really an Impulse a lot of people have but you're not going to get that if the state is evil and awful so we talked earlier about restraining the state and giving people the ability to do cool
(1:09:45) things without just being this just evil tyrannical Force that's invading Iraq for no clear reason or bombing Libya for no clear reason I do think you need a restrained state acts on some degree of moral principle to get people to start acting like the gentleman officers of a century or two ago again because people aren't going to do that if they just see what they're fighting for or serving in any degree whether it's an administrator an officer a politician they're not going to do it if they see it as evil or corrupt
(1:10:15) particularly if they're good people yeah that's why I'm optimistic I mean the policy particularly on the tax side that Trump is floating High tariffs no income tax um that would necessitate that you need to cut a a large swath of the federal government the administrative bureaucratic State um unless you want crazy inflation if you want Echo inflation like the 7s you're going to do that and not cut any of the spending or the agencies within the federal government and I and I think that naturally leads to the environment that
(1:10:52) you just described you have all these busy bodies in the federal government working at these agencies that are getting paychecks that I would argue are um not really deserved but they feel empowered and um they they just interrupt pure peer-to-peer economic activity and add friction that does make it um less appealing to to want to go out and do things where it's like why am I going to try to deal with this [ __ ] annoying agency excuse my language um yeah and that's that again cautiously optimistic preparing
(1:11:31) for the rug but if you can thread this needle of bringing back tariffs eliminating the income tax and bringing Ron Paul and Elon Musk to completely decimate the administrative State like I'm extremely optimistic for the future of American Prosperity quality of life and hopefully a bridging of the gap of the social incohesion that exists right now oh yeah it's it's hard to do see if he's doing it intentionally but really Trump in his rhetoric particularly This Time Around Mirrors William McKinley to a great deal a great extent McKinley
(1:12:07) famously or perhaps less famously than deserved came into office when the labor relations with capital were at a nider there's the whole gold issue that we talked about a bit ago and American industry was just being decimated by relatively free trade policies and the government was getting ever bigger mckenley dealt with a lot of that the government probably got a little bit bigger because of the Spanish American war but he did put on tariffs and there was no income tax and the tariffs both funded the government and protected
(1:12:35) American industry where you could get a good job as an American again he was really good at handling labor and handling Capital so Labor Relations did very well actually he was great at handling both groups and people kind of went back to there's less socialist bomb throwing than there had been a few years beforehand and the owners of capital weren't just quite as intransigent he got killed but he did a good job and Trump models himself I think off of McKinley at least in his policies and so I think if Trump brought it back you'd
(1:13:04) see under Trump a return of what you saw under McKinley which is American prosperity and just general positivity and key to that that people miss this but really key is the no income tax proposal you know when capital gains and dividends are taxed at a lower rate than income that makes it impossible to ever catch up with the wealth no matter how well you do you just can't because their tax at a lower rate and their stuff grows at a higher rate whereas when there's no income tax if you're a intelligent or successful or just person
(1:13:36) who's willing to go out and work hard and do things you can make a good bit of money pretty quickly and just put it in assets that produce an income and like we talked about a minute ago with the gentleman thing enable you to serve and no one serves when almost no one serves when they're poor it will starve to death if they're not drawing a salary they're going to demand their bureaucratic rights they want a pension they want an income they want everything whereas when it's someone like uh Herbert Hoover who never took a
(1:14:01) government salary or you know anyone before and British parliamentarians weren't paid until around 1900 maybe later even you know it's a different type of person and the people who are there many of them just do it because they built wealth and are able to but they wouldn't have built that wealth if it was taxed away with an income tax as they were trying to build their Fortune so it's just a it creates a very very different world and I'm CAU cautiously very cautiously optimistic that it might happen because it would be awesome if he
(1:14:29) gets even half of it done yeah it is insane when you go and understand the history of the income tax like it was supposed to be a temporary 1% tax for I think like two years and it's turned into this monstrosity that eats up half your income year in and year out and then you're taxed I mean there's the famous and I'm sure you've seen it the Tik Tok video of the girl is like so let me get this straight like I get paid and my company pays taxes on that money on the way in I pay taxes as it comes to me I go and spend it and I pay taxes on
(1:15:04) that and the person receiving the money is paying taxes on the fact that they receive like how does this work and it is truly astonishing that we've gotten to this point in history where this has just been so normalized and people just expect this is the way the world works when it really isn't and was never meant to again it was supposed to be temporary like 1913 is probably the worst year in US history in the sense that you had the Federal Reserve and the income tax both introduced into the American economy at
(1:15:38) the same time well I'm not an economist so take this with many grains of salt but one of my personal pet theories is it's really hard to have sayane interest rates and an income tax because if you have say 7% or whatever the natural rate of interest on money is whether it's five or 7% or somewhere around there it's really hard to do that and have an income tax because you're not going to get any economic growth people aren't going to have the money you talked about the chain of every little which way it's taxed so then by get by the time it gets
(1:16:07) the people who would be reinvesting it in the economy it's really hard for them to have enough to make a profit with like 7% rates whereas if you look at America before the income tax America or American uh economic growth in real terms and real assets in the real world and instead of just all this Phantom nonsense was pretty solid pretty steady and it came with significant I think reasonable interest rates attached that made money real instead of um just easy money so I think if you want the sanity that is enforced by having rates around
(1:16:42) where they are now or a little higher it's really really really hard to do that I think with an income tax that's just whittling things down as people try and reinvest it in the economy yeah and with the income tax and the debt you're forced inevitably always to lower those interest rates down I mean now towards the zero bound we're probably headed I should have finished the thought yeah that's what I was getting at and lost my train yeah sorry you have to lower it to zero which just creates all these just horrible things
(1:17:14) over time all the ridiculous companies waste of money yeah ETA you're literally ripping opportunity cost out of the economy out of any economic decision rates are zero money is free you know what think about weighing the U the consequences of allocating Capital here as opposed to here he's like I'll do I'll do both and it doesn't matter because it doesn't cost me anything you literally need to introduce a natural rate of inflation that isn't corrupted because because of the income tax or whatever it may be the
(1:17:47) Federal Reserve so that people are actually forced to make wise decisions from a capital allocation perspective or if I make this allocation and I don't make 5 to 7% back in income uh hopefully more than that so I can get a profit and I'm [ __ ] um 0% rates you don't have that decision so that's why you have this zombie economy filled with a bunch of useless widgets and and Tech products and if you think about all the zombie companies that have been kept around by the very low interest rates there just so much economic inefficiency wasted
(1:18:25) capital and wasted human potential that result from that whether it's Dei inside companies that's just funded by money being cheap or it's just companies sticking around that shouldn't be sticking around the um I think you have a much better world that's more productive and more Innovative when there's consequences attached to money and people actually have to do something with it instead of it just being some carry trade where well the FED says we can get money at a 1% rate so we're going to use the money we loan from the
(1:18:56) fed or from Black Rock that's right attached to it to buy back our shares and then when our shares go up because we bought bought them back we'll just sell them again and pay the FED back and it's just nothing happened there it was a complete waste of money it just um it's just a waste and there's a lot of inefficiency and stuff that should get done isn't getting done because they're fin everything's financialized and they're just tinkering with it yeah well you keep saying you're not an economist but I think you have a very good grasp
(1:19:21) on how all this stuff interacts with each other and how it affects T us um as a society it's been fascinating I love your work um I've been a a lurker follower for some time now I think uh I think the ideas that you're putting out there are very important I think um like you said when you to that's one thing I think that bitcoiners have honed in on other people um in um different communities running in parallel tracks um have really honed in on is is learning how to control the propaganda and and put our own propaganda out there to get these ideas
(1:19:59) out there I think I think you're doing a good job of that um thank you and we need to really Embrace that that's another terrible thing of the last 50 years is the the definition of propaganda or the understanding of the word propaganda by the masses has been completely corrupted it is um something that everybody's like oh propaganda is bad it's like yes there's certainly bad propaganda but propaganda is a means by which you affect change by getting your ideas out there and making convincing arguments via um via effective propaganda and
(1:20:36) that's yeah the worst regimes used it but that doesn't mean that virtue wasn't inculcated by it like how much how much of the British Empire would have existed if they hadn't been describing how it was generally a Force for good in the world but was ridding it of slavery or spreading just civilization and Western medicine to these places probably wouldn't have happened without prop propaganda I think like you said people misunderstand the term where it's useful yeah we need better propaganda out there thank you for putting it out there will
(1:21:02) this has been a pleasure anything um any final thoughts about anything we talked about before we wrap up here this was great I think bitcoin's definitely a very new world thing a new economy thing but I think there's a lot that people who have gotten wealthy through it who are planning to get wealthy through it should have learn about the old world because why do we do this if not for our children that's the point tradition isn't a bad thing it's uh essential to actually survival and um making sure that we live in a world that is worth
(1:21:31) living in in the future exactly all right that's all we got today for's peace and love