The TFTC podcast episode discusses the Green+ program's use of satellite surveillance in carbon markets, raising concerns about privacy, and the push towards digital authoritarianism.
The latest episode of TFTC dives into the weaponization of carbon credits, surveillance threats, and the intersection of bitcoin and sidechain technologies. Guests Whitney and Mark co-authored an investigative piece uncovering the "Green+" program, an initiative aimed at creating a new carbon credit system by leveraging satellite surveillance.
The primary focus of the conversation was on the broader implications of financializing nature and the role of surveillance in carbon markets. The discussion pointed to the influence of influential figures like Mark Carney, who are reshaping financial governance and development systems to support involuntary carbon markets and commodity tokenization.
A key aspect of the Green+ program involves the surveillance of carbon sequestration areas via satellites operated by companies like Satellogic, which have deep ties to US intelligence. With the intent to surveil and potentially regulate individual carbon emissions from space, the program raises concerns about privacy and the commodification of natural resources.
Moreover, the episode explored the potential repercussions of integrating carbon markets with the bitcoin blockchain through sidechains like Rootstock (RSK), which could transform bitcoin into a tool for asset storage, potentially aligning with the interests of Wall Street rather than maintaining its decentralized ethos.
The episode illuminated an elaborate scheme to transform carbon markets through technologies that may lead to increased surveillance and financial control. The involvement of intelligence-linked satellite firms and the integration of sidechains like RSK with bitcoin could signify a departure from bitcoin's original purpose, potentially serving the agendas of Wall Street giants.
The overarching message was a call to action for individuals to reclaim agency, resist fear tactics, and maintain the revolutionary ethos of bitcoin as a decentralized currency. The conversation highlighted the importance of self-reliance, skepticism towards seemingly dichotomous choices presented by media and authorities, and the power of the human spirit to overcome orchestrated control.
The episode serves as a stark reminder that while technological advancements hold immense potential, they also come with the responsibility to safeguard personal freedoms and resist efforts that could lead to digital authoritarianism.
0:00 - Intro
1:27 - Explaining the article
9:56 - Satellogic
14:03 - Private/public cabal
23:14 - Steve Mnuchin
35:03 - Highlighting the public/private smokescreen
44:29 - Gradually, Then Suddenly
45:08 - RSK
53:56 - Carbon dictatorship
1:17:04 - Stablecoin mafia
1:32:31 - Preventing bitcoin’s corruption
1:47:03 - Bitcoin ethos whitepill
1:58:14 - Fear tactics and censorship
2:10:35 - Final thoughts
00:00:01:25 - 00:00:09:25
Marty
Ooh, Logan, that was a quick trigger. I didn't even get to finish my sentence. We jumped right into it. WHITNEY Mark, welcome back to the show.
00:00:09:27 - 00:00:11:20
Whitney
Hey, great to be here.
00:00:11:22 - 00:00:13:07
Mark
Yeah, thanks, Martin. Great to be here.
00:00:13:09 - 00:00:19:14
Marty
Well, thank you, Mark, for for getting a proper mike for this. The audio files listen to the show are going to be very happy.
00:00:19:16 - 00:00:36:19
Mark
This is I am a man of the people. And when the people yell and scream, I listen and I respond and I throw money at the problem. And here we are, loud and clear coming through. So yeah.
00:00:36:21 - 00:01:14:03
Marty
It's the audio files. They attack me, the YouTube comments. It's like, make sure your guest says, Well, I'm like, I can control the guests. Make it free if you're listening. I mean, it's not like I side channel with Mark. He listened and even at the time he's got the mic. We're here to talk about something. Whitney I think me and you started talking about this broader subject last year with Ian Davis with the Sustainable Development Goals series that you guys wrote in this attempt to monetize swaths of land natural resources throughout the developed world.
00:01:14:03 - 00:01:14:24
Whitney
Yeah.
00:01:14:26 - 00:01:43:13
Marty
And Mark in yourself wrote a piece, came out April 4th, 12 days ago, Debt from Above the carbon credit coup. It seems like there is an initiative to push these efforts forward that involves a lot of things, particularly satellites and Bitcoin Sidechains. So I think before we touch on the broader topic, maybe we'll touch on that later. Let's talk about the specific piece that you two co-wrote.
00:01:43:15 - 00:01:45:17
Marty
What is going on?
00:01:45:19 - 00:02:19:03
Whitney
Right? So let's start off from the broader part. So yeah, like I came on with Ian I guess a year or two ago and before that I came on with you to talk about natural asset corporations talking about this broader effort. One of the people leading this, of course, are people like Mark Carney trying to recreate the global financial governance system, recreate the multilateral development bank system, and a big part of this is juicing up voluntary carbon markets and making them voluntary in name only and really making them in voluntary carbon markets.
00:02:19:06 - 00:02:42:17
Whitney
And there's a lot of reasons why they want to do this specifically. It's a big shift towards, I guess, supercharging commodity is and tokenizing them for this coming financial system. And of course carbon is one of the, you know, a big commodity that they want to, you know, introduce into that in a big way they're doing that is through the financialization or securitizing of nature.
00:02:42:17 - 00:03:02:11
Whitney
And so there's a you know, that's a big part of the big part of the play here. So specifically this piece, this is a two part series. So the first part, the article that's out now, is specifically about this thing called Green Plus in Green. Here is an acronym. I can't remember exactly what it is right now, but it's in the article.
00:03:02:11 - 00:03:10:27
Whitney
It's something like a greenhouse gas reduction in emissions for net gain or something like that. I don't.
00:03:10:27 - 00:03:16:09
Mark
Know. It's a government reduction of emissions for environmental net plus gain.
00:03:16:12 - 00:03:18:28
Whitney
I had like some of the words on there, what I.
00:03:19:00 - 00:03:20:15
Mark
Think.
00:03:20:17 - 00:03:25:09
Marty
They're getting, yeah, they're getting created this acronym. So we're going to remember that.
00:03:25:11 - 00:04:00:04
Whitney
Yeah, totally. So anyway, there's like several founding members and this program has obviously had several iterations, but it's it's honestly a very secretive program. In the longer it's gone, the more time has gone on since it was first seemingly launched in 2022, the more obfuscating they've become about the details around it. And so the only program description that's really available of it anymore is on the, you know, of the nuts and bolts of what this program is supposed to be is on the way back machine, you know, the Internet Archive.
00:04:00:07 - 00:04:32:10
Whitney
But the program is still on. You know, and if you look at the website for the program now, it's just a countdown to Miami Climate Week, which is at the end of this month. Now, this April, now pretty much in it's a countdown to when they launch the rest of the satellites for this program. And so this is basically, you know, a carbon credit system enacted by via contract contractual obligations that NGOs are sort of yoking the public sector to.
00:04:32:13 - 00:05:05:03
Whitney
It's a public private partnership, essentially, which is, you know, how they're pushing a lot of this steady, sustainable development goal stuff through in general. And so by by doing it at the subnational level, they don't have to interact with the national level. No, like congressional approval, Senate approval, they're going straight to like city halls, essentially, and getting mayors and the heads of municipalities to sign on to this thing and basically give this program the rights to turn the protected areas.
00:05:05:05 - 00:05:48:16
Whitney
And the goal is, of course, every municipality in Latin America give them the right to turn those protected Eric areas into natural equity through the creation of carbon credits that are produced off of these protected areas with the supposed benefit for the public sector of getting money from the sale of these carbon credits. In return. But there's, you know, as we discussed in the piece, there's a lot more going on there and a lot of this is something that's been overlooked in the context of carbon markets and that there's a big surveillance component to it surveilling where the carbon is sequestered that underpins the carbon credit.
00:05:48:16 - 00:06:15:15
Whitney
Yes. And so a big part of this piece is about the satellite firm that was contracted to do this specifically, which is called sad illogic, very deeply enmeshed with U.S. intelligence and U.S. intelligence contractors like Space X and Palantir, which I've, you know, done a lot of work on Palantir over the years. And basically the ambition of Palantir is to be a relaunch of the Total Information Awareness program that we've talked about on the show before.
00:06:15:15 - 00:06:49:00
Whitney
Tia, that was tried they tried to launch after 911 and then was shut down because they said it would eliminate civilian privacy throughout the United States. And I mean, it has done that, but it's a private sector only thing. You know, they took DARPA out of it by and really in name only, to be quite honest. And so anyway, this particular satellite company, which has ties to ARPA and DHS and the NSA and what have you, you know, and has put Palantir in space, basically is the company that's going to be surveilling all of these forests.
00:06:49:02 - 00:07:14:11
Whitney
And really beyond that, the municipalities as well in Latin America, because one of the partners of this particular initiative called the Energy Coalition, the head of that in the press release announcing this and they're their team up with the satellite satellite company said that the goal is to measure carbon emissions from space and make that part of this voluntary that's not really voluntary carbon market.
00:07:14:13 - 00:07:35:24
Whitney
So, you know, you're emitting too much carbon, you're using a woodstove, you have too much you know, you have too much livestock, I don't know or you're emitting too much heat for a reason, X, Y and Z. In this urban area, we're going to surveil that from space and charge you accordingly, or you will have to purchase this many offsets or this many credits.
00:07:35:26 - 00:07:57:13
Whitney
You know, it's part of this, you know, de industrialize nation agenda. And only those that these guys like can industrialize and like use energy and those that they don't like or are doing things they don't like. You know, it's a way to, you know, force behavior by, you know, making energy money essentially, among other things, obviously.
00:07:57:16 - 00:08:27:19
Marty
Yeah, A couple of things here. I highly skeptical. I mean, I don't know, maybe the technology has advanced to a point where you can actually surveil carbon emissions from space. But it's like, how are they even calculating this? Like, how could you measure this from a satellite? Maybe I'm completely speaking out of my depth here. The technology does exist, but I find it very hard to believe that you can accurately measure all these emissions from a satellite and then to when it's not surveillance, it's observation.
00:08:27:20 - 00:08:36:05
Marty
It's just earth observation. There's observing the earth in issuing these credits. Okay, let's get the language right. It's not surveillance. We're just observing here.
00:08:36:08 - 00:09:17:22
Mark
Observation is preservation. Okay. That is a phrase of satellite, Jake, This company. Yeah, it's simply observation. There's no surveillance here at all. Oh, to to comment on the first part in regards to, like, the technology. Yeah, I actually think the technology, unfortunately is there and it's there for you know, this is obviously a private company SAT logic. We can get into some of the background of it but I mean right there on the board, right, We have General Joseph Dunford, you know, who's partnered with Steve Manoukian and with Liberty Strategic Capital, which is one of the funders and founders of Logic.
00:09:17:24 - 00:09:48:26
Mark
But there's a lot of government and intelligence ties and and, you know, American infrastructure ties with the Caterpillar company, just like. Right here, are all on the board of Sater logic. And, you know, basically they they have the technology to be able to yeah. As you said, observe space to to an incredibly accurate degree. I'm trying to see exactly what their, uh, you know, what what they what what the lenses that they use are.
00:09:48:28 - 00:10:09:23
Mark
I'm not exactly sure where we put it here, but I mean, these, these satellites drop you know, they use Amazon Web service, which is, you know, obviously a CIA contractor and, you know, has worked with the Pentagon with their space development agency. And they're they're beaming down 50 gigabytes of data per day, which is obviously an insane amount of data.
00:10:09:26 - 00:10:50:14
Mark
And so it's incredibly high res, you know, imagery that's being taken by these very small satellites. Um, and, you know, this company is basically giving access to, you know, the world's data, Um, to private companies, to governments, and really any VC firm or local or national government that wants to partner with this company, they're able to get access basically to earth observation data that normally is pretty much, you know, only for nation state level intelligence agencies.
00:10:50:14 - 00:11:22:24
Mark
So they've basically privatized, you know, the NSA in the CIA, which obviously, you know, we know about through, you know, In-Q-Tel and through Palantir, which are, you know, essentially kind of these two arms of the public sector, intelligence becoming private sector. And now it's getting to this place where, you know, places like Paraguay and some of these municipalities that are mentioned in our piece are now being able to access, you know, for a fee, uh, you know, data from Earth.
00:11:22:26 - 00:11:43:28
Mark
This is, of course, obviously done under the, the means of of providing a service and not just observing every square inch on earth. And, and you know, it's done under this way of, you know, hey, you have an oil company, an oil company, and you need to watch all of these these pipes. Great. You want to do that with an airplane?
00:11:43:28 - 00:12:15:09
Mark
It's going to cost hundreds of dollars an hour. You want to do this with a satellite or a group of satellites, a constellation service, you know, that's going to go down to, you know, below $100 an hour, you know, 60 bucks an hour. So it's kind of done under this this economic of, you know, scale and pitched as this, you know, basically the market is asking for this when in reality you look at the people that are, you know, behind it and what are the means, you know, behind this expansion into space, you know, as Whitney said, Palantir.
00:12:15:09 - 00:12:29:28
Mark
And in space, essentially. And I would say there's there's certainly much more nefarious intentions behind this group, and we can get a lot more into it for sure. But that's a little primer on set of logic there.
00:12:30:00 - 00:12:52:06
Marty
Yeah. After reading the piece and discussing this subject with you two in chat, it seems like this is the next I mean, when we talk about this Ian and even before that, but it's like the next iteration of junk bonds. But two, they're just going for them. Yeah, as soon as one I.
00:12:52:06 - 00:12:52:20
Whitney
Mean.
00:12:52:20 - 00:13:11:12
Marty
They're on to the next thing and this is the next thing. And there's a lot of people that have historically been involved with these synthetic markets that Wall Street spends up to to get some yield out of the greater public. Uh, and this is simply the next iteration to that with a sci fi twist to it.
00:13:11:14 - 00:13:48:26
Whitney
Yeah, I mean, literal. Li The junk bond predator's from the eighties, are the people financing this now and like, involved in it? It's very crazy. And actually the person that created carbon trading essentially is this guy named Richard Sandor, who is also credited with being the father of financial futures, credited with essentially creating the collateralized mortgage obligation. He was a senior vice president at Drexel Burnham Lambert in the 1980s, made millions upon millions of dollars during the junk bond palooza over there that caused that bank to collapse.
00:13:48:28 - 00:14:34:17
Whitney
And then he was contracted basically by the Bush administration, Bush senior, to develop an offset trading scheme for Bush Senior's EPA for solvent sulfur dioxide emissions, I believe. And then after that program, he was contract contacted by Murray Strong, who's this U.N. guy. But very scandalous figures, very deeply tied to Rockefeller interests, for example, and just, you know, the worst of the worst oligarchs and and, you know, figures in the Predator class of now, I guess Murray Strong was a front man for MIT, for front man, for many of them at the U.N. He's the guy that put on the Rio summit that launched a June a 21.
00:14:34:17 - 00:15:14:03
Whitney
Now 2030, the Sustainable Development Goals. He had Richard Sander come in and basically launch the whole idea of creating this private carbon market as a solution to the climate change situation. And a lot of these same figures in this particular U.N. Rockefeller Nexus have been involved with things like trying to limit population and industrialization through groups like the Club of Rome, which is discussed in this piece, because one of their descendants, in terms of organizations is one of the governing members of this green plus carbon market program That's called the Global Footprint Network.
00:15:14:03 - 00:15:41:14
Whitney
Yes. And these guys, the Club of Rome, essentially grew out of these different organizations that were part of sort of the influence, the axis of influence of the Rockefeller Network, specifically in Latin America, which was involved in the installation of at least some of the US backed and CIA backed military dictatorships in Latin America in the 1980s. But one of these organizations was called Adela again, another acronym.
00:15:41:14 - 00:16:03:00
Whitney
And basically what this was where was where major multinational corporations and oligarchs of Europe in the United States essentially acted as kingmakers for who would become the corporate titans or rather the oligarchs of Latin America. And this is something that they've done not just in Latin America. You know, they also did it during after the collapse of the Soviet Union, for example.
00:16:03:02 - 00:16:23:20
Whitney
And all of these state owned assets of Russia, of Russia were privatized and put in the hands of these carefully selected oligarchs. And, of course, the architect of that system in Russia. Right. That's Larry Summers and Harvard doing all of that essentially under Clinton. And so that same system has has been done, you know, I would argue, really throughout the world.
00:16:23:20 - 00:17:07:05
Whitney
And so this was done in Latin America through Adela. And Adela sort of spurred the creation of this of this Club of Rome organization, which goes very much together with this national security memorandum that was issued by Henry Kissinger during the Nixon administration that basically frames birth high birthrates in Latin America in allowing them to industrialize to developed country levels as a threat to U.S. national security, with the goal of having, you know, basically allowing these these figures, you know, the desire to control, you know, how, you know, their population figures and how far along they industrialize and control of their resources.
00:17:07:05 - 00:17:31:11
Whitney
And, you know, essentially this program, what we're talking about now, is a modern iteration of all of that. And you have all of essentially the same players that have historically been doing this to Latin America, specifically, but also beyond Latin America as well, doing this, you know, for the modern era, you know, attempting to put it all on blockchain, have it all be a surveillance bill, you know, digital enterprise, essentially.
00:17:31:14 - 00:18:01:00
Whitney
And I think it's quite sophisticated, honestly, the way that they're going to try and market this, because what they've been doing and I think we talked about this last time as well, is that, you know, fundamentally what's running the world right now is a global public private partnership. And so what's been demonized and not necessarily wrongly, you know, within the independent media sphere, post-COVID has been the public sector and of course, the world economic Forum, the United Nations, all of those guys are not good at all.
00:18:01:01 - 00:18:35:16
Whitney
Right. But it's a public, private thing. And so there's been a lot of focus on how the public sector part of this is bad and corrupt. And the answer that we're being led to is, oh, well, let's just put it all in the hand of the private sector. But the World Economic Forum is the private sector, and they've created these public, private partnerships because it converts the nation state into the enabling environment for all of these policies developed by, you know, unelected oligarchs who are stealing people's wealth through these insane wealth transfers and are the people that ultimately control, you know, the Federal Reserve, for example.
00:18:35:16 - 00:19:01:00
Whitney
You know, the Federal Reserve is seen as the central bank. It's a state connected entity to an extent. I guess that's true. But I mean, people should know in the U.S. that it's commercial banks like Jp morgan and Citigroup that really like own and run the Fed, you know, and people forget that. So if you're going to move from, you know, Jerome Powell to Jamie Dimon, I don't really see there being any functional difference in what that means for the common person.
00:19:01:03 - 00:19:17:03
Whitney
You know what I mean? And so essentially what's going on here is that you're having a mix of of both happening here. And, you know, if they're not going to succeed in selling programs through the public sector, they're going to go to the private and be like, let the free market decide. But these are not free market people.
00:19:17:03 - 00:19:47:24
Whitney
These are career financial criminals. These are like the Drexel Burnham Lambert goons and people like that, you know, engineering, new ways to engage in blatantly illegal financial activity and fraud and steal. And that's what a lot of these Wall Street giants have been doing for a long time, with complete impunity. And the idea that they should, you know, be given full free rein to do that just because public sector bad, you know, I mean, that's not that's the trap I think they want us to fall into.
00:19:47:27 - 00:20:15:08
Whitney
And unfortunately, you know, these are the same guys that we know what they've done before and they're financing this stuff now. So in addition to Richard Sandor, you know, Michael Milken himself a big junk bond guy, he's all in for the Sustainable Development Goals. The person that ran his crypto initiatives is now running Algorand, which is getting involved with this kind of stuff as well with, you know, Stablecoins and efforts to implement Cbdcs.
00:20:15:10 - 00:20:34:11
Whitney
They're partnered with some of the people we talk about in this piece, COI Bank specifically trying to get involved in El Salvador's, you know, digital money paradigm, among other things. You know, that's that's a bit unnerving. And then of course, you have Craig Kogut, who was directly involved in the junk bond department of Drexel Burnham Lambert as well.
00:20:34:14 - 00:21:00:10
Whitney
He directly finances several of the groups that helped create this Green Plus program and is also financially entangled with the head of Sater Logic, the satellite company that's underpinning all of this. So these Drexel guys are here in full force. I would argue that, yes, the carbon credit, the voluntary carbon market is junk bonds on steroids, frankly, because it's being framed as a planetary imperative.
00:21:00:10 - 00:21:24:21
Whitney
We must participate or we will all die is essentially what they're arguing. Right. But it's participating in their grift. I mean, these these carbon credits have time and time again been exposed not just by people like that, don't like, you know, the idea of climate change policy in general traditionally on the right, but also like environmental groups on the left that are like please govern me harder Daddy, about climate change.
00:21:24:23 - 00:21:47:18
Whitney
They're like, no, carbon markets are bad too, because these credits are meaningless, essentially, and it's creating a new market for all of the stuff that they can just like, you know, essentially looking for new ways to enable them to continue their extreme fiscal irresponsibility, both in both the private sector and the public sector and allow them to steal everyone's money and wealth.
00:21:47:21 - 00:22:10:23
Mark
Yeah, I think Greg, Craig Kogut and and and Milken are. It's a really good example of this private public partnership cabal thing because, you know, what was the thing? You know, everyone is cheering for Trump to, you know, to pardon Assange on his last days in office. And who does he decide to pardon? Michael fucking Milken. Who is that Absolute.
00:22:10:23 - 00:23:01:24
Mark
I think Whitney called him a literal ghoul on on Twitter the other day, which is absolutely true. A total ghoul. And so Kogut was was like, I believe the lawyer for the junk bonds department, basically, and for Milken kind of doing this this huge fraud. And he, of course, you know, founded Pegasus Capital, Apollo Global Management. Pegasus Capital is one of the main funders of CC 35 and before Pegasus Capital funded CC 35, Emilio Kargman, who's the founder of Sater Logic, they CO they did a joint venture together under the Pegasus Capital name called A Cock a Carga Ventures, which served as the Aconcagua Ventures excuse me, which served as a member of the Special
00:23:01:24 - 00:23:43:05
Mark
Projects Group for the World Bank. And then, of course, creating Saturn Logic, which sort of spun out of this core Securities Technology Group, which was co-founded by KARGMAN and Ricardo, who's the CTO of Sater Logic now, who listed, you know, having clients as like the NASA and NASA's Lockheed Martin and DARPA, you know, kind of in the late nineties, this group also Core security was was connected with the Endeavor Foundation, which comes up all all across the board with connections to Reid Hoffman and a bunch of PayPal guys with with Marcos Galperin of of Mercado Libra, all of these groups.
00:23:43:07 - 00:24:14:03
Mark
But you know Craig Kogut, you know, is is you know, hugely important in this in the junk bond scandal. You know, it's like not only is it the same mechanisms just with kind of a blockchain twist, but it's the same people and it's the same people that are, you know, getting, you know, basically using the government as this enabling environment, using the pardoning power of a banker president and a private sector.
00:24:14:03 - 00:24:36:27
Mark
Google like Trump, who did so many things at the behest of private companies, whether it's big pharma, whether it's these banks printing trillions of dollars, locking down the country, pushing vaccines, and basically going in lockstep, basically with the world empire in COVID policy. And, you know, the last thing he does before he walks at the door is is free.
00:24:36:27 - 00:25:23:24
Mark
Is free, this Google and Michael Milken. So, you know, you're really seeing this this thing kind of this, you know, begin to take shape. And another, I think, essential thing in regards to the Trump cabinet and in this whole play is Stablecoins. Right. And we talked about this a bunch last time, but, you know, specifically there was this letter sent from Kushner to Manoogian referencing this blog post by Sam Altman about, you know, the creation of this USD coin, you know, and using a dollar stablecoin and how, you know, this might be an important lever for for our Cabinet and for our government to, you know, sort of take advantage of to basically perpetuate the
00:25:23:24 - 00:26:04:15
Mark
Treasury market and U.S. dollar denominated liabilities across the world. And so what did we actually see in regards to using the government as as an enabling environment? We saw the officer of the comptroller of the Currency, which is basically the, you know, the highest position in the government of, you know, financial litigation and law. You know, we saw a former VP of Coinbase and a former one West partner, Brian Brooks, come in and be and sign legislation that basically said that all banks, private banks could hold crypto assets and specifically could could play with Stablecoins and use Stablecoins.
00:26:04:17 - 00:26:41:27
Mark
And then of course, on the board of Satu Logic, the chairman of the board is our boy Stephen Manoogian, who of course was put in by Trump to run the Treasury, who printed, you know, trillions of dollars in in connection with Jerome Powell and the and and the Fed for for COVID stimulus. But basically they allowed this entire operation that we're now seeing, you know, through the private sector coalition that that's basically I wouldn't say is coming out of Argentina and out of South America, but it's certainly rooting very strongly there.
00:26:42:00 - 00:27:32:29
Mark
And we're seeing so many people connected with this group that is essential infrastructure to the dollar. Stablecoin cabal, I guess, you know, there's very few people more important to the digital asset, the digitalizing of the dollar than Steve mentioned. And then, of course, Howie Lutnick, who is also on the board of Sad, Sad Illogic, whose company Cantor Fitzgerald, took Sater logic public and he his company, Cantor Fitzgerald, holds the majority of the U.S. Treasury bills for tether, which is, of course, the largest stablecoin provider in the world at just just under $110 billion market cap is on the board of sad logic took the company public.
00:27:32:29 - 00:28:15:19
Mark
I mean it is an essential part of of of Sater logic. So we have Steve Manoogian, we have a former general we have a guy essential to the treasury Ponzi continuing and the digital the digitalizing of the dollar via tether, all connected to this one satellite company that is offering a service to be able to uphold. You know what essentially breaks down to parametric insurance clauses and and other data points that can be fed into a blockchain that can actually enable dollar denominated liabilities to back real world assets.
00:28:15:21 - 00:28:46:04
Mark
So we're going to start to see, you know, kind of this this, you know, very spooky coalition come to come to formation and begin to see really this play to, you know, to dollarized really the natural world in this way that is backed by data from satellite companies that are run by, you know, historically ghoulish, you know, private and public sector.
00:28:46:06 - 00:29:13:06
Mark
Um, I hate to just keep saying ghouls, but I mean, just these these worst of the worst people that are upholding, you know, these these very important positions all across this entire CC 35 green plus and Saturn logic combination here of private sector businesses. You know you really see this this conspiracy begin to take shape.
00:29:13:08 - 00:29:35:06
Marty
And coincidentally enough Steve mentioned in this private equity arm just took over New York Community Bank Corp as well so building on the Brian Brooks did and everything going on with that logic, that's a very timely and strategic acquisition for for. Yes, specifically.
00:29:35:09 - 00:29:59:26
Whitney
Well, those guys, specifically Steve Manoogian and then Dunford came on to that firm and it's also U.S. Trump's ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, and some other people that were under management at the Treasury Department that make up that Manoogian led VC firm that we're talking about here, their first investment when they launched was in this company that I wrote about, I guess four years ago now called Cybereason.
00:30:00:02 - 00:30:35:26
Whitney
And the reason I'd written about them is because they were gaming out the the use of cyberattacks to it was a foreign company, Israeli company gaming this out with the U.S. DHS, the Secret Service and in other parts of, you know, U.S. law enforcement, including local police departments. I think the first one was actually with the Boston PD anyway, gaming out the precise conditions that hackers would have to do in order to get the U.S. presidential election canceled and martial law declared in the United States.
00:30:35:29 - 00:31:08:16
Whitney
And again, this is like a foreign intelligence company, Cybereason and Manoogian. That's the first investment they make as a VC firm. And at that same time, they were also trying to recruit to the VC firm Yossi Cohen. He is the was director of Mossad while Trump was in office and instead of going to management firm, Yossi Cohen went to SoftBank, which is the main investor in Cybereason and now runs like, I think one of the main arms of SoftBank that decides their investment portfolio and whatnot.
00:31:08:19 - 00:31:41:15
Whitney
So a lot of weird stuff going there in the realm of, you know, is this a U.S. or Israeli intelligence link with the with the management VC firm? It seems to be both, if you ask me, especially with someone like David Friedman. There, who during his tenure as ambassador to Israel for the U.S. was pretty open, that he was, you know, very, very cozy with the Netanyahu side of things, which, I mean, the Trump administration in general was because Trump's biggest funder during his first campaign and first term was Sheldon Adelson, who, of course, is now deceased.
00:31:41:15 - 00:32:08:03
Whitney
But, you know, Sheldon Adelson is the reason Trump put in John Bolton, the reason he moved the embassy to Jerusalem, you know, among many other things, and is also a big funder, was a big funder of Netanyahu as well. So a lot of cross-pollination there. That's worth pointing out as far as Manchin goes. But Manchin is definitely a figure that people need to I don't know, I guess remember about because now that it's like a presidential election and everyone's like, oh, which side are you on?
00:32:08:03 - 00:32:47:16
Whitney
Biden's terrible. And so if you're not with Trump, you're with Biden. You know, that whole mentality is back. You know, people kind of forget that, You know, Steve Manchin was a guy that should have been prosecuted for what he did in the 2008 financial crisis, and he wasn't. And then Trump puts him in charge of Treasury, you know, and while head of Treasury, as Marc pointed out, engaged in very, very bad and fiscally irresponsible policies under COVID, in a lot of that, you know, those irresponsible policies, the effects of which we're still feeling now and robbed Americans of the significant amount of their purchasing power, you know, essentially that money that was printed was handed
00:32:47:16 - 00:33:08:08
Whitney
off to BlackRock, You know, Larry Fink to hand out to whoever he, you know, felt he deserved it, whatever that means. And of course, before Trump was in office, his family's finances were managed by Larry Fink, and he appointed Larry Fink to his business council and definitely is a big fan of Larry. So. Well, people need to keep this stuff in mind now.
00:33:08:11 - 00:33:08:24
Mark
And who.
00:33:08:24 - 00:33:09:27
Whitney
Was and who was.
00:33:09:27 - 00:33:36:12
Mark
The D.A. in California that should have prosecuted Manoogian But didn't Kamala Harris, of course, also, I just want to say South Carolina SBA, LA Advisor Corps was the lead investor of the pipe offering of 100 million for the Saturn Logic SPAC with Cantor and JPMorgan, of course, served as the exclusive financial advisor to Psychologic. So just a wrap up of some of those names in there.
00:33:36:15 - 00:34:14:07
Marty
Yeah. Whitney, I think what you just said about managing time as Treasury secretary is very important because again, this whole concept of a public private partnership in the facade, the mirage that there is actually anything separating the private and the public sector these days is very important for people to understand and really internalize. Is the the West, whoever it may be, they're trying to put us in this frame where it's like, hey, we we're the private sector in the public sector and we need them to cooperate when in reality they're more merged than ever before.
00:34:14:07 - 00:34:15:22
Whitney
Yeah, they're the same laws.
00:34:15:29 - 00:34:18:26
Marty
Yeah, they are the same exact thing, trying different.
00:34:18:28 - 00:34:33:00
Whitney
Hands of the same person. And they're demonizing one hand to send people into the other hand. And this is what they always do. And you have to realize that both hands are bad. Don't go in either hand, you know.
00:34:33:02 - 00:35:04:28
Marty
Well that's you got to reject their Frings yet don't go in either the frame is between the space between the hands and they're just getting ping pong back and forth. And Mark I won't speak for you, but I'll speak for myself. This is why in Bitcoin is because at the core of this quote unquote public private partnership is the ability to print money out of thin air and throw between the hands and so whether it's the emergence of junk bonds, we mentioned Pegasus connection to Apollo.
00:35:04:28 - 00:35:29:21
Marty
I mean, that was a big thing in September of 2019 when you had that overnight repo spasm. Many people don't know this, but the Fed created new facilities that allowed hedge funds to get access to the Fed window. And then with Minchin's very irresponsible fiscal policy and the expansion of the debt since 2020, the Fed and the Treasury have been put in a position where they essentially are merged.
00:35:29:21 - 00:35:48:20
Marty
At this point, there really is no difference between the two. They have accounts with each other and they're sort of just sloshing funds between each other. They are essentially merged and so there is no private public separation. So this idea of a private public partnership is all bullshit. It's all the same thing.
00:35:48:22 - 00:36:15:27
Mark
Especially after the dissolving of certain, you know, legislation, you know, that prevented kind of banks becoming, investment firms and, you know, these these really big, you know, interstate entities, right? I mean, in 33 under FDR, we had Glass-Steagall we put in, which was, you know, basically prevented banks from, you know, certain, you know, types.
00:36:15:27 - 00:36:21:14
Marty
Being less commercial commingling, commercial deposits, more insurance products.
00:36:21:17 - 00:36:55:03
Mark
Totally. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And and then, you know, of course, what did we we saw in the in the mid nineties, you know, we saw Greenspan who later went on to, you know, to run the Fed. We saw we saw him, you know, put out a pamphlet while at JPMorgan that was, you know, rethinking Glass-Steagall. We saw Larry Summers help dissolve this, who, you know, you know, kind of very infamously kind of jumped back and forth between some of these private and public things, as well as, you know, universities with with Harvard as well.
00:36:55:06 - 00:37:16:07
Mark
And so we saw kind of this push of, you know, back and forth, this ping pong of when there was an advantage to be within the public sector. You know, these people are in the public sector. When there is an advantage to be in the private sector, These people are in the private sector. You look at someone like a Manoogian, you know, ping pong back and forth from one West Wing.
00:37:16:08 - 00:37:43:21
Mark
Hey, we can take advantage of now that Glass-Steagall is dissolved. You know, we can take advantage and basically use taxpayer money to back, you know, this ridiculous, you know, CDOs. KMO gambling with, you know, retirement funds and people's money that should be, you know, much safer. We can go gamble and have a bunch of fun when this all blows up.
00:37:43:24 - 00:38:11:21
Mark
Taxpayer Guys are on the hook and you know, there's too big to fail, you know, with with the basically the creation of of Citicorp and and and and Chase and all of these groups kind of coming together to become too big to fail. Right at the same time as as these regulatory you know you know basically that would have prevented these things from happening are being dissolved by goons put in to put put into power to dissolve these laws.
00:38:11:23 - 00:38:47:19
Mark
Now they're back in the private sector. They make a bunch of money off of it, and then they come back in to the public sector right before COVID. And Brian Brooks and Manchin kind of set up what they need, you know, using government as this enabling environment to set up the blockchain carbon credit system. And then as soon as they're done and the Trump presidency over and they've done what they needed to do, they leave and they go back to, you know, the private sector and they set up, you know, these systems to take advantage of basically private capital creation.
00:38:47:21 - 00:39:14:08
Mark
You know, stablecoins I think are very misunderstood because it's not like they're really this novel technology. I mean, dollar creation has pretty much always been a private sector gambit. It's just now it's on a blockchain and it's digitized. But, you know, a group like Cantor holding, you know, 80 billion plus or whatever, whatever percentage of the tether bonds are holding, you know, that was always something that was done by private sector banks.
00:39:14:11 - 00:39:43:25
Mark
And now we're just seeing it done with a much smaller, you know, instead of having all of the energy and manpower and office buildings and real estate needed to run, you know, a huge international operation from from a banking standpoint. Now, you can basically run tether with, you know, 50 employees or whatever and be $110 billion, you know, private capital creation entity.
00:39:43:27 - 00:40:07:02
Mark
So blockchain basically just allows them to perpetuate the dollar, perpetuate the treasury system and the do it in a much more efficient way without requiring all of this overhead. So I think these these systems were very deliberately put in place, you know, by these ping pong ing private public sector ghouls to, you know, make them a ton of money.
00:40:07:05 - 00:40:28:23
Mark
There's a reason why Howie Lutnick has come out and said that he loves Bitcoin and he loves tether and they and he loves circle. And, you know, they're making a bunch of money for him, you know, in a high interest rate environment, you know, holding 80 billion plus or whatever they hold in treasuries, you know, you know, earns them 5% or something like five and a half percent in a year.
00:40:28:25 - 00:41:03:17
Mark
That's a huge amount of money. When it's billions of dollars for basically nothing. And they get to use, you know, that those those funds to buy Bitcoin and make a bunch of money and appreciate the the appreciation of Bitcoin that we've seen this year as it just gets more and more scarce. So yeah, I think this this idea of this private public, you know, barrier, it's just completely dissolved and we're really at a point, I think just in general where, you know, we've really hit this this world empire context.
00:41:03:19 - 00:41:35:04
Mark
And I think a lot of people, you know, as it comes down to election season, as we start to see, you know, again, conflicts in Russia, Ukraine or, you know, in Gaza, it's like people just immediately fall back into these two party systems and this private public system. And I think most of these are generally just distractions to keep us, you know, to pick a side and be against the other side rather than really be against the hidden hand that is really controlling both sides of these dynamics.
00:41:35:06 - 00:42:05:15
Mark
It's so easy to fall into and they're getting so clever with it. You know, we're seeing this huge explosion of interest in Austrian economics, this huge explosion of like sentiment of libertarianism, you know, through a melee. And what is Melee actually doing? He's selling all the lithium to Israel. He's dollarized in the country. He's putting out a red carpet for Musk and for Larry Fink to just come in and privatize the country and polarize the country even more than it already is.
00:42:05:18 - 00:42:40:00
Mark
And I think that there's a lot of a lot to be learned by the basically the Hegelian that are being employed on us to be distracted from, you know, these mechanisms that are really being put in place. And when you see something as dire and as extreme as, you know, intelligence linked satellite companies creating a metric and a mechanism to dollarized, you know, the forests and real world assets and create commodity backed stablecoins to completely take out the power from the state and give it to private companies.
00:42:40:02 - 00:43:05:06
Mark
This isn't necessarily the win that we all think it is, as you know, kind of liberty minded people. You know, I don't want Steve Manoogian running my money whether or not he's running sad a logic or he's he's in the treasury he's he's he has he's not to be trusted. And so I think we're falling for this dialectic and this false choice quite extremely in my opinion.
00:43:05:08 - 00:43:29:23
Marty
Do you really think people are. I think luckily you too, wrote this piece to get in front of what's happening next week in Miami. And I do think I see it just from the conversations I have at 1031 talking to institutional investors, and they're all call it hook, line and sinker on the tokenization of assets. I mean, they think that is the future.
00:43:29:25 - 00:44:01:14
Marty
That is what they're investing behind, throwing a lot of dollars at. But like I said in our chat, I do think there is a chance that this all implodes in on itself. And particularly because it's such a complicated system, you're combining satellite IDs with these physical natural assets on the planet, and then you're throwing a blockchain in the mix, not only a blockchain, a sidechain, and then on top of that tokens and there's a lot of problems that can arrive or arise from that.
00:44:01:14 - 00:44:37:18
Marty
But before we get into that, I think maybe this a good point to let the audience understand how the blockchain aspect fits into this. What are the mechanisms that are being used to tokenize these carbon credits, these assets to create these Stablecoins So you guys highlighted in the piece a pivotal part of technology in this whole mix is a bitcoin Sidechain merge mine Sidechain rootstock are K is more popular known on Twitter specifically, it's been around for a while.
00:44:37:21 - 00:44:57:10
Marty
I've been jokingly they've been looking for product market fit for the better part of a decade. Now it seems like they've finally found it. So Mark Whitney, if either one of you to want to explain what rootstock is how it works, then we can get into the nitty gritty details of the financialization of these assets via rootstock.
00:44:57:12 - 00:45:18:08
Mark
Yeah, totally. I think before getting into the maybe the blockchain aspect of it, I think just zooming out one more layer, just like green bonds and we're starting to see these kind of like cleverly authored green bonds that aren't using blockchains yet, but essentially you know, what a bond is, is, you know, you're buying up debt and you're getting a yield, you know, you know, through this maturity over over time.
00:45:18:08 - 00:45:48:02
Mark
Right. So, you know, say you buy a ten year bond, you know, in the in the eighth year, you know, you're getting a 1% coupon, you're getting 1% on your cost. You could write this bond that says in year eight, nine and ten, if you haven't reduced your greenhouse gas CO2 emissions by 50% compared to where you were, you know, eight years ago, instead of paying out 1%, it pays out 0%.
00:45:48:04 - 00:46:13:08
Mark
So you can basically write these these huge bonds that are being done everywhere. We're seeing them issued by Deutsche Bank, Jp morgan, HSBC, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, you know, these huge, huge, huge firms are doing these these green bonds. They're not necessarily incredibly new, but they're they're very popular. Now, some huge companies like Verizon has done, you know, huge, huge, huge companies.
00:46:13:08 - 00:46:43:03
Mark
So basically what you need to actually enable a bond kind of authored in this way is you need an some kind of broker and some kind of insurance company and some kind of data that is accredited that can be fed into some arbiter that can actually determine at year eight if this company has met the requirements to get that 1% coupon.
00:46:43:06 - 00:47:10:24
Mark
Right. So you can think of it without a blockchain and just, okay, you need basically some company that can be accredited that can measure the greenhouse gas emissions and be able to, you know, agreed upon when the bond is authored that in year eight, we are going to provide you with a number. And if that number is below, you know, X percent, then you don't get 1% of of $1,000,000,000 that year, say it's $1,000,000,000 bond.
00:47:10:26 - 00:47:56:27
Mark
You know, that's a significant, you know, market that that's a that's a significantly expensive thing to basically have, you know, a broker, a brokerage firm, some, you know, paying the lawyers to litigate this, having the data provided. There's a lot of points of of, you know, granular points to to actually uphold green finance. And so a firm like, um, or rather a sidechain like RPK, what it can do is it can actually basically act as all of those things as the litigator, as the broker, and as the settlor as the place that the actual assets are settled by using assets that are put on to a blockchain.
00:47:57:00 - 00:48:32:07
Mark
The only thing that it can't really do is basically be the oracle to feed data. You know, blockchains are kind of clunky and stupid in a lot of ways, and it's hard to put in real world data into a blockchain. It's it's not necessarily that easy to agree upon it. So you have to have a company like a Saturn, a logic basically, be the accredited satellite that that, that, you know, measures these admissions and then find a way to be the oracle to feed that data into this, you know cleverly authored smart contract bond.
00:48:32:13 - 00:49:14:16
Mark
So rather than relying on Jp morgan and like Lockton insurance and some other you know, accredited carbon company, you know, you can use it, you can you can reduce your your cost significantly by using a sidechain like RSA. RSA. Basically what it is, is, is it's just a way to do a Etherium on Bitcoin. So basically it's a it's a it has a clone of the Ethereum virtual machine that allows you to take any contract written in solidity, which is the programing language of Etherium and, and actualize it on Bitcoin using this merged mining peg.
00:49:14:19 - 00:49:47:16
Mark
Um, so RSA has all of these things, it has identity systems already built in, it has the ability to create carbon credits. We've seen groups use the Etherium already to create, you know, carbon credits already that are just financial instruments that are tokenized, where you can they can basically tokenize, you know, tons of carbon emissions, you know, and traded on a Etherium Well, now Iris allows you to do that exact same thing, but just put it on Bitcoin.
00:49:47:19 - 00:50:38:15
Mark
And of course RSA and Rootstock, you know, it's a federated Sidechain Um, but it was created by people generally in Argentina. They have all of these connections to a lot of the people involved in this group. I believe that there is a bunch of connections. I believe they share a board member, Joey Garcia, with Wences, Casares Zapp CO, which was a you know, I think he's kind of a name that a lot of modern bitcoiners sort of forget, but, you know, a really important guy kind of considered the the patient zero for Silicon Valley that basically introduced Bitcoin to Peter Thiel, to Reed Hoffman to the PayPal Mafia, and he was very connected with PayPal
00:50:38:15 - 00:51:22:14
Mark
and Facebook. He helped he worked on the dam project that failed. But yeah, RZA shares a lot of a lot of people, you know, with this Zappa group, with this Endeavor group and RZA. Yeah, basically allow Stablecoins identity systems, carbon credits, any of these cleverly authored smart contracts to exist on Bitcoin itself. And so Bitcoin, rather than being just this kind of settlement network for Satoshis can now actually uphold Stablecoins carbon credits, other assets, and can have these cleverly authored bonds that get fed data from, say, a company like Sater Logic and be able to uphold a carbon market.
00:51:22:14 - 00:51:53:11
Mark
Real world asset. You know, commodity backed stablecoin is now possible to be upheld on bitcoin, which is again, that's kind of what we talked about last time with this Fink Universal Ledger. He called Bitcoin a technology for data storage for asset storage. And RZA basically is kind of an enabling environment for this, Um, you know as well as doing a lot of other things, but I think that's kind of the role that it plays in this system.
00:51:53:13 - 00:52:31:19
Marty
And to be to semantics here again is ask is merge mine with bitcoin just so audience is coming to this I may not be fully immersed in bitcoin like we are. Mark Yeah, sure. It is not technically like at the political level so like merge mine Sidechains Peg Sidechain Federated Peg essentially anchors into the bitcoin protocol that has this EVM that operates separate to the Bitcoin protocol, but it does anchor in to get the benefits of Bitcoin's finality settlement, robustness, resiliency, yadda, yadda, yadda.
00:52:31:22 - 00:53:00:22
Marty
So there is like a degree of separation from Bitcoin, the core protocol, but it's anchoring into that and that's my biggest curiosity. And again, I told you guys this in chapter, I'm really interested to see if they can successfully do this because when it comes to the smart contracts, the virtual machine, I mean, historically solidity has been a very unstable and insecure scripting language.
00:53:00:22 - 00:53:25:09
Marty
I don't know. I haven't been following this case closely in recent years, so I don't know if they've made advancements at the scripting language level that make it more secure. I'd be highly skeptical of that. Then you have this Oracle problems out of logic as the Oracle here feeding the data that releases funds. One way or another within the SMART contract.
00:53:25:11 - 00:53:41:13
Marty
And then so that whole process, they're all it's going to take is one like missed measurement of data being fed to a smart contract and money being sent the wrong way for somebody to hold their hands. I'll be like complete bullshit, like, how do we know this data?
00:53:41:13 - 00:53:42:00
Mark
Yeah, that's where.
00:53:42:07 - 00:53:54:26
Marty
You really get down to. It's like, and this is where the ruse. Is this because you I find it hard to believe that you'll ever be able to have verifiability of the data actually being pure and accurate.
00:53:54:28 - 00:54:28:14
Whitney
Yeah. So there's this whole thing going on in carbon markets right now because everyone involved has been outed for being, you know, well, not everyone involved, but basically the whole market up until now has basically been out of this being very like grifter prone, you know, lots of fraud, lots of negligence, etc., etc.. So the way they've been planning to get around this and this is reflected in the Green Plus program is through parametric insurance like insuring carbon credits so that if the fraud and negligence continues to occur, which it will, it's now insured.
00:54:28:18 - 00:54:56:04
Whitney
And now the insurance market has a new market for product. Oh, sure. Right. So there's no need to correct or to end the rampant fraud in carbon credits. They're just going to add like a new layer, another derivatives products now. Yeah. And there's like all the big insurance companies are getting in on this. And then there's new companies that are coming out of nowhere that are specifically specializing in carbon credit insurance.
00:54:56:06 - 00:55:19:05
Whitney
And then there's the other thing, too, that you have some of these entities involved basically looking to urge the planet like the Global Footprint Network through the Club of Rome stuff. You know, there's very prominent Club of Rome figures that for a long time have talked about if we can't depopulate peacefully, we will need to implement a benevolent, smart dictatorship.
00:55:19:05 - 00:55:45:04
Whitney
Oh, okay. If you've ever seen the movie Brazil that came out in the 1980s, this is all basically about this like, you know, bureaucratic monstrosity, dictatorship, government, and they make a mistake and all these people suffer all these unfortunate happened happenings that end in death and torture and things like that, because they're trying to rectify the mistake that the state made.
00:55:45:06 - 00:56:10:05
Whitney
Right. So when you have a totalitarian system, they make a mistake. They don't own up to the mistake. You know what I mean? Like good luck trying to go through the bureaucracy that they create as part of their benevolent, smart dictatorship to try and be like, Yeah, so I didn't get mine, like credit carbon credit allowance or whatever, or like you guys messed up my climate wallet.
00:56:10:05 - 00:56:44:25
Whitney
Can you fix it, please? I mean, honestly, they don't really need it to work the right way. And I think you know, that's been my criticism of stuff about, you know, the I industry too, that they've been like overselling it for a really long time and trying to be like we should put a guy in charge of all these things, even though a lot of the algorithms in terms of like their accuracy are independently audited and sometimes they can be like as well based on the companies own metrics of like 70%, probably a lot lower than that, probably no better than a coin toss, things like that.
00:56:44:25 - 00:57:14:25
Whitney
I mean, they don't care. It's all really I think, about the illusion of those systems being in place and this whole idea sort of like the physical underpinnings of the Panopticon in general, the idea that like being under constant observation will make you behave even if they don't do anything because, you know, they're watching you and they could do something like it's there's a lot more to this than I mean, I guess that's kind of dark in a way, too, to point out.
00:57:15:00 - 00:57:49:22
Whitney
Sorry, but it's true, because these people are incompetent at times and they're trying to launch stuff I think, before they really have these systems ready to go in the way they want them to be. Yeah. And so the idea is we have to not interact with these systems at all. The way out of these kind of things is to not comply because so much of this, what, you know, green plus I would say is the start of getting this really out there in like at scale, you know, with people not really paying attention to it.
00:57:49:22 - 00:58:30:22
Whitney
And in framing it as, you know, part of the climate crisis response. But this whole play of digital ID, digital wallet, surveil Bill Programable money has advanced a lot. And it's not just cbdcs. That's the CBC. Discussion is about keeping attention on a very narrow band of what they're doing, but it's much broader than that. So what we really need to do to defeat things like this is to not engage and become part of that system because we risk entering into this Brazil style type dictatorship That's incompetent, but also like very totalitarian and authoritarian and violent.
00:58:30:25 - 00:58:51:00
Whitney
And you don't want to brush up against that because it's not like they'll correct their incompetence when they get caught. I mean, look at how the system is now. I mean, it's basically like digitizing that system, developing it at scale. And it's a way for, you know, the crony capitalist these Oh, look, I mean, there's so many different ways to talk about them.
00:58:51:00 - 00:59:27:09
Whitney
But, you know, essentially they're the people at the top of the 1% that engage in blatant financial criminal activities to steal from people beneath them. Right. And so they want to deepen the divide between the haves and the have nots. And they want to basically make like digital barriers to maintain that in AI as part of that. And, you know, these systems, this whole idea of like carbon offsets and in the carbon market in general, you know, most people aren't going to be able to afford all the offsets of the elite are going to be able to afford.
00:59:27:11 - 00:59:53:04
Whitney
Right. I mean, it's a way this is all part of the system and that's leading us to neo feudalism as as I've called it before. And so essentially, you know, we really can't get out of this if we unless we choose not to interact with the system and create something either parallel or just find some way to live your life without having to really interact with the, you know, the digital ID in the digital wallet at all.
00:59:53:10 - 01:00:12:13
Whitney
There's a lot of different ways. It seems like it's coming together. You know, the World Bank is working with with Google in a lot of these other entities, including the ones in this article about Green Plus that are direct partners of green plus to create the climate wallet that's tied up with the whole idea of doing cbdcs and all of that.
01:00:12:17 - 01:00:32:07
Whitney
Right. Things related to that to private sector equivalent. They call it the climate wallet. Yeah, because it's all tied up with carbon emissions. And there's this, you know, the carbon taxes and all of that. And this is why, you know, I would like to point out we mentioned it a little bit earlier, but bring it up again, the whole idea of SpaceX being involved in launching these green plus satellites.
01:00:32:10 - 01:00:37:21
Whitney
Elon Musk is a big proponent of carbon taxes and has been for a very long time.
01:00:37:25 - 01:00:38:15
Marty
It benefits man.
01:00:38:15 - 01:01:12:15
Whitney
And of course, he's. Well, sure and he's but he's framed himself as being sort of this like libertarian free speech hero after, you know, his acquisition of X, which, you know, again, he's been fairly open. His goal is to turn X into WeChat USA and make it half of the financial system, I guess to start. But beyond that, you know, the idea is to also have, you know, carbon emissions, carbon taxes, you know, intimately inter interfaced with this coming digital ID, digital wallet paradigm.
01:01:12:18 - 01:01:44:11
Whitney
And there's a lot of different efforts to create those systems. But it's not just going to be one system. It's going to be a mosaic of interoperable systems in 2020, for example, a big force behind the vaccine passport push during COVID for example. That's the Rockefellers and and Gates and all of that. It's not about making one global digital ID and unfortunately, a lot of people and independent media, when there was a lot of reporting on this during COVID, missed the boat on this one.
01:01:44:11 - 01:02:12:23
Whitney
It's not about one global digital ID system. It's about it's several digital ID systems that are all interoperable and to have them all interlaced with each other so you can export the data to one global central database. And it's the same for, you know, Cbdcs and the Stablecoins and all of that. The goal is to have it all be interoperable and all the wallets in the same is true also for the carbon market.
01:02:12:23 - 01:02:34:14
Whitney
And all of these are meant to go together. The pillars of the of the new financial system, this new financial governance system involves all of these things. And so, you know, we you know, a lot of times the carbon market gets ignored. A lot of times the private sector cbdc equivalents get ignored. But we need to look at this stuff holistically because there's a lot of other stuff going on here.
01:02:34:14 - 01:02:58:27
Whitney
And, you know, we are ignoring the carbon aspect of this to our peril because this is, you know, again, as we said or as we discussed earlier, you know, a new reiteration of of the junk bond villains, as it were. But now they're not just trying to like, you know, take bad debt and, you know, they're using the natural world to fuel their debt schemes, basically.
01:02:58:29 - 01:03:25:25
Whitney
And there's also this effort that's been posited by Larry Fink and Mark Carney and people like them to reimagine the World Bank and the entire multilateral development system, which for its entire existence has been about debt enslavement, mainly of the Global South. And so those people say one of the key ways of financing Agenda 2030, the Sustainable Development Goals, is debt.
01:03:25:25 - 01:03:50:10
Whitney
So we have to saddle these countries in debt and we have to, because of this idea that if we don't do this, the planet will explode. We have to get people to develop these smart grids and all these different new technologies that we say we they need and implement these carbon markets and these surveillance paradigms all under the guise of combating climate change.
01:03:50:13 - 01:04:11:13
Whitney
You know that that's not what satellite logic is there for. You know, if you're really about combating climate change, you don't set up a system like Green Plus where at best 40% of the proceeds from the carbon credits go to decarbonizing initiatives that aren't actually about decarbonizing. It's going to a crony company. That's one of the guys involved in creating Green Plus.
01:04:11:21 - 01:04:35:06
Whitney
It's his company and it's about building smart grids and smart cities from the micro grid utility level up. I mean, that's not anything that has nothing to do with saving the planet. That's about creating a slavery system and a control system. So that the debt lords can suck us dry forever with technology. You know, and that's essentially what's happening here.
01:04:35:06 - 01:04:57:02
Whitney
And it's very bad. I would really like people to start to wake up about this, but unfortunately, a lot of the discourse has been very narrow and it's getting narrower because we are in an election year. So if you bring up the fact that both Democrats and Republicans are on board with this kind of crap, people will be like, Oh, but no, my guy, so much better in that guy's so bad.
01:04:57:02 - 01:05:22:24
Whitney
And oh, no, you know, I mean, this binary thinking crap with president elections has to stop. The CIA has meddled in elections all over the world and overthrown governments all over the world. And our elections have always pretty much been fake since they've been around, you know, So, like, this election is no different. I know that people like the whole idea of we need the political savior to come save us.
01:05:22:24 - 01:05:39:22
Whitney
Let's get the right guy in the White House. What a mess our whole country is. We need to get the right guy in the White House. The guy in the White House is always a front for the bankers, and it's pretty much always been that way. The CIA, it's the bankers. If you look at the early CIA, it was all bankers.
01:05:39:22 - 01:06:02:18
Whitney
It was Wall Street lawyers out of Sullivan and Cromwell. You know, that's who's been doing this. The whole time. And now they're enslaving the planet with spy satellites and they're the spies, you know? So, like, I don't know, I just get so tired of the election rhetoric. Sometimes people just really need to understand that this is the bankers.
01:06:02:21 - 01:06:30:20
Whitney
They run the public sector, they run the private sector. This is a financial slavery system. It's the slavery system they've been using for decades. But on steroids. And in Latin America, their big focus is to integrate Argentina and Brazil. They want to do the same thing to South America that they did to Europe to create the European Union, which is start with a free trade agreement for all of Europe.
01:06:30:20 - 01:06:59:12
Whitney
That's how the EU started. It evolves into this bureaucratic totalitarian behemoth. And it's yoked to the US through the euro dollar. They're doing the same thing in Latin America. There's all these different iterations of it, right leaning in the left leaning, which are basically all globalist governance, you know, attempts for to, you know, integrate South America at the regional level.
01:06:59:14 - 01:07:21:10
Whitney
There's procedure, there's Mercosur, there's UNASUR, there's a lobby, there's all these different acronyms. There's the Organization of American States. The goal of all of these one way or another is to regionally integrate, whether it's under right leaning dialectics or left leaning dialectics. That's what they want. And they want a free trade of the Americas. So not just NAFTA.
01:07:21:15 - 01:07:42:10
Whitney
That was the North American one, right? They want one for all of the Americas. They want to regionally integrate all of the Americas at the economic level, lead it down this path towards bureaucratic, regional governance to be part of this global governance patchwork thing, which has been, you know, the push for arguably a very, very, very, very long time.
01:07:42:13 - 01:08:05:11
Whitney
And they want to do it with spy satellites and all this other stuff going on. But the idea is to do that same model using the EU, but they want to yoke it with dollar STABLECOINS not, you know, not the euro dollar necessarily. And so the Argentina, Brazil and Argentina are the ones they need to have most under their thumb because they're the biggest countries in size of South America.
01:08:05:18 - 01:08:24:13
Whitney
You get Brazil and Argentina, you basically get the whole continent. So my concern is you're going to have them try and do it the right leaning way through people like Harvey or Malay. And if they get him back in power, Bolsonaro and frame them as, oh, they're defeating the baddies, but really they're just, you know, they're the other hand like we discussed earlier.
01:08:24:16 - 01:09:01:21
Whitney
And what's interesting too is like a lot of this group that's discussed in the Green Plus piece, you know, RS K at the satellite firm and some of the connective tissue between them that includes, you know, Zappa, Wednesday, Casares and these figures are essentially like the Argentinian branch of the PayPal Mafia. A lot of their companies were funded and directed by this entity that Marc mentioned earlier called Endeavor, which is chaired right now by Edgar Bronfman Jr, who if you've read my book, you'll know a lot about the Brown-forman's and organized crime and political power there.
01:09:01:21 - 01:09:31:05
Whitney
For example, the family that's essentially that essentially bankrolled Justin Trudeau in Canada, among other figures, and they're very powerful. Reid Hoffman of the PayPal Mafia and LinkedIn and whatnot. Also a very close Epstein pal is also intimately tied up with the endeavor. And the companies that Endeavor helped create are some of the biggest companies in Latin America. Now, many of them are based in Argentina.
01:09:31:05 - 01:09:56:03
Whitney
The biggest one, of course, is based in Argentina. The first Endeavor success story, which would be MercadoLibre, which is Marcos Galperin, who, as Mark mentioned earlier on the board of Saddle Logic, involved with a lot of these other companies. MercadoLibre itself is very much interfaced with Paxos, PayPal and and groups like that. And it's sort of like what happened earlier, what I mentioned earlier about those those figures sort of.
01:09:56:03 - 01:10:24:19
Whitney
KING Making the corporate titans of Latin America. So this is like a modern iteration of that with like the same players. You know, they're funding these startups and ensuring which companies get big and if they succeed, but they're, you know, endeavors not in Argentinian entity, it's an entity run by people like Edgar Bronfman and Reid Hoffman. And so there's an endeavor Argentina branch in pretty much all of these companies that we discuss in the piece that are based in Argentina are part of this endeavor.
01:10:24:19 - 01:10:49:02
Whitney
Argentina network in Argentina is where they are, I would argue, are going to test out a lot of these efforts, most likely under Melaye, because he's very amenable to these kinds of of policies. And so one of these figures that, you know, that comes up a lot in the piece, this Diego Gutierrez, he's one of the co-founders of Risk of Rootstock.
01:10:49:05 - 01:11:16:13
Whitney
He gave us this very revealing interview about a year ago, and he was talking about several things that I think are important to bring up in the context of this interview. One of them is that as Bitcoin becomes into Wall Street, Bitcoin has to shed its ethos, as he called it. Essentially, it has to stop being a tool of of descent, a threat to both commercial and central banks and essentially become their tool.
01:11:16:18 - 01:11:41:14
Whitney
That's what he says. So for Bitcoin to succeed in his eyes, that has to happen. So that's very telling. And then he also says that there's going to be a concerted to move away from money printed by the state, meaning central banks, and instead move to commodity backed stablecoins where the people that own the commodities will have all the power.
01:11:41:16 - 01:12:10:01
Whitney
I think that's very interesting because obviously the way for you know, in his case right came to power framing himself as very libertarian, but his policies thus far have shown him to be very crony capitalist in my opinion. We've talked about this before, and Mark brought up some stuff, you know, to that point. But keep in mind, too, that, you know, a lot of the people in in his government are from JPMorgan, for example, or the Argentinian branch of major Wall Street banks.
01:12:10:03 - 01:12:31:09
Whitney
He's been very close with people like Fink and Musk as as discussed among others. And you know, very friendly with like Zelensky in the Ukraine. So, I mean, this is not a very libertarian guy under other metrics. And there's been a lot of, you know, antagonism with him on Argentina's Central bank, which of course, is responsible for a lot of bad stuff that has happened in Argentina.
01:12:31:09 - 01:12:54:12
Whitney
But people also need to remember the history of how Argentina got here, which has a lot of this fiscal trouble for Argentina, began when it was run by a U.S. and CIA backed military coup. Then under Carlos Menem, who was the great I say this great, not in the actually like, Oh, that was great. Since like big I guess the big neo liberal in Argentina.
01:12:54:14 - 01:13:25:28
Whitney
Recent political history who was basically just like a goon for, you know, U.S., you know, foreign interests really to like, gobble up Argentinian resources. Moloi is a big fan of Menem and some of his other people that are in his government started their political careers under Menem, like Patricia Borek, the interior minister, for example. So you know you can really frame Melee as a continuation of that stuff, you know, because Mauricio Macri a lot of people in malaise government are from the Macri government especially his economics team.
01:13:26:01 - 01:13:59:08
Whitney
You know, there's a direct line to all of that. And so I am very concerned that, you know, that would be celebrated as like a big yes. We've you know, he's going to you know, the central bank is not going to print the peso anymore. It's over. And he's saved Argentina. Well, is it really saving Argentina if he's, you know, going to make you know, they're going to use dollar Pigs Stablecoins They're regulating the credit of Bitcoin right now and they're going to move to this whole model of commodity backed Stablecoins, which is already actually happening in Argentina.
01:13:59:08 - 01:14:23:22
Whitney
A company backed by Visa that's based in Argentina is tokenizing basically all of the country's grain deposits to use that as currency. So whoever owns all of the grains in the biggest landowner is a big bet backer of Mauricio Macri, part of Endeavor, Argentina. His name is Eduardo Elstein. He owns all of the commodities. He's also a big shareholder of some of Israel's biggest companies.
01:14:23:28 - 01:14:42:19
Whitney
He's going to be the guy that basically controls the money then, right, At least with the greenback. Stablecoins So if you have all these oligarchs in charge of different industries, which is essentially what Argentina has been becoming and has been happening really everywhere around the world, who's going to be in charge of the money? Is that really better than the central bank having?
01:14:42:23 - 01:15:00:16
Whitney
Because remember the central banks run by the commercial banks. So you're just getting I mean, the same shit under a different, you know, name, basically. I don't know. I mean, there's lot of different stuff going on here and it's going to be interesting to see how it develops. But, you know, I'm sorry, I'll let someone else talk. I've been around for a while now.
01:15:00:16 - 01:15:18:16
Mark
It's amazing. I think the way you talk about just sort of this establishment of, you know, commodity backed stablecoins and money, it gets back to this idea of kind of what Marty was saying earlier. Well, there's still the Oracle problem. There's still all these issues of making a federated sidechain work. Well, then you look at, well, where did the money go?
01:15:18:19 - 01:15:41:21
Mark
You know, a lot of this research came from looking at VCs and looking at where the money came that, you know, funded and founded these these companies. And you look at you know, you talked about X, you know, a lot of people forget Elon heavily involved in PayPal. And X was, you know, initially an idea that came out of the, you know, the PayPal primordial goop.
01:15:41:23 - 01:16:05:08
Mark
And we look at this PayPal mafia and how it spread everywhere. And this the first idea of Bitcoin sidechains or, you know, was introduced in the Sidechains paper in October 2014 by, you know, all of these Blockstream employees led by Adam back the next month, you know, weeks later. The seed round for Blockstream is led by Reid Hoffman.
01:16:05:11 - 01:16:33:04
Mark
You know, and what this Sidechain concept did basically was allow Bitcoin to uphold other ledger assets and give the ability to, you know, transfer these assets between multiple blockchains and give new functions to assets that they already own. And, you know, you look at, okay, well, then who you know, who was the the money behind PayPal. And you you look into it and you see who or who is the seed founder of PayPal.
01:16:33:04 - 01:17:03:12
Mark
And you get this guy, Bill Lucas. Bill Lucas was a former trustee of the Jeffrey Epstein Foundation. And and in 1997, he co-founded Clear Stone Venture Partners with this guy, William Quigley, who later went on to co-found Tether. William Quigley also, you know, co-founded Sunlight Holdings with Brock Pierce when Mt. Gox went under to try to buy up the assets of Mt. Gox in bankruptcy.
01:17:03:18 - 01:17:33:10
Mark
And they were advised by Louis Freeh, who is a former FBI director. But you're, you know, so, yeah, Yeah, exactly. And so you're seeing, you know, okay, PayPal is all over this thing, Bill. Elk is connected directly with Epstein. You, Howie Lutnick, the guy that holds all the treasuries for tether, purchased an estate, you know, from comet Trust connected to Guido Goldman connected directly, you know, a neighboring estate to Epstein's house.
01:17:33:10 - 01:18:16:15
Mark
I believe he bought 11/71 Street East, 70 Street. And and Epstein was nine, East 71st Street. And then you look into PayPal and you see, okay, well, who's kind of doing the digital infrastructure for the blockchain of, you know, entity basically of PayPal who's allowing all these things to happen. And it's this company, Paxos, EOS. And then you look at the board of directors for Paxos, and we got Bill Bradley, who's the managing director of Allen and Company and a former U.S. senator from New Jersey, as well as this guy Jim Manzi, who's, you know, former he ended up being at IBM.
01:18:16:15 - 01:19:09:03
Mark
He founded a company that got purchased by IBM, but a chairman of this Lotus company, both of those guys, Bill Bradley and Jim Manzi, were on the board of directors for this East Coast company Cargo Metrics run by this gentleman, Scott BORGERSON, who was the believed to be husband of Ghislaine Maxwell and basically Cargo metrix, kind of like the first satellite logic in that it was this ocean observation company that was providing all of this data, collecting all of this data on, shipping lanes, and basically looking at how, again, in this world empire context, looking at all of the the transportation of of commodities, of people, of whatever it is, but anything traveling on ships
01:19:09:03 - 01:19:45:22
Mark
across the oceans, you know, this company was basically collecting all of these data. Cargo metrics is literally the name of the company. Both of these guys are on the board of this company, and now they're both on the board of Paxos here, you know, ten, ten years later. And cargo metrics ended up becoming this data company. And then it turned into this like Quant financial desk, because what actually happens when you have all of this surveillance data, you have an extreme heads up and leg up, rather, on people trying to trade in these like global forex markets.
01:19:45:22 - 01:20:19:12
Mark
You know, we knew Epstein was a really big forex trader. You know, there was actually a letter from Lynn Forester to Russ correct me. Whitney Yeah, Yes, exactly. Yes. To Bill Clinton in the White House about how they discussed currency stabilization. And Jeffrey Epstein. And, you know, Epstein was was, you know, heavily considered to be, you know, really into, you know, trading.
01:20:19:15 - 01:20:36:26
Mark
And, you know, that was kind of his passion in a lot of ways. And, you know, how do you get a leg up on all of these things is you get, you know, extensive amounts of data and then you create infrastructures that allow you to do trades and move large amounts of liquidity and settle large amounts of liquidity within.
01:20:36:26 - 01:21:05:13
Mark
The realm that, you know, you acquire all this data for. So you're beginning to see, you know, these are the same people that were heavily connected not just to intelligence but, you know, basically the mafia that controls intelligence. And they are heavily connected already to, you know, again, Paxos runs, you know, the PayPal stablecoin. I had a conversation with the head of strategy there, Walter Hastert.
01:21:05:15 - 01:21:35:06
Mark
And again, I'm not accusing him specifically of anything or anyone specifically of anything. But, you know, he spoke of, you know, the Stablecoin market and basically said that, you know, there's an opportunity here for regulation to come in from the public sector and basically. KING Make, you know, the stablecoin remaining in the private sector. But, you know. KING Making who gets to basically create the dollar denominated liabilities for this, you know, future economic system.
01:21:35:08 - 01:22:25:16
Mark
And Paxos is really set up via PayPal to be an essential infrastructure provider for the modern economy. And there, you know, seed founded by Bill Elk's directly connected with Epstein has direct connections to tether to former FBI directors to Brock Pierce you know and here they are connected to cargo metrics this this other you know Glenn Maxwell connected surveillance company turned you know quant trading desk you know and we've seen this time and time again with the Maxwell Sisters with their, you know, early adventures in in you know, basically in data harvesting and data collecting through the early Internet, through Magellan.
01:22:25:16 - 01:23:18:06
Mark
You one of the first Internet search engines, which I believe was Christine Maxwell. And then later I think Whitney could probably talk more to this. But later through, I think it's called Chili Ed, which later then became LexisNexis. And, you know, a lot of these companies that get these huge amounts of, you know, direct funding and contracts from US intelligence, you know, kind of came out of the same mafia, Mossad sort of entity that, you know, we all look at, you know, kind of the Epstein group as kind of this human trafficking, you know, cabal, which is, you know, obviously true to some degree, but There's there's an incredible amount of of data and, you
01:23:18:06 - 01:23:45:06
Mark
know, foreign exchange and currency, financial hit man basically everybody kind of generally forgets how much of how he was tied into a lot of 28 and a lot of these firms that blew up. And so you know you really zoom out on a lot of these things and zoom in on specific people. And it's it's the same people, it's the same mechanisms just being modernized.
01:23:45:09 - 01:24:28:10
Mark
And this PayPal mafia is just everywhere, all over the whole this whole this whole, you know, blockchain chain and Bitcoin world. And I think it's really interesting that, you know, blockstream that themselves, you know, generally regarded, you know, incredibly highly the bitcoin space, you know, have such huge connections with, you know, Reid Hoffman and then of course with bitfinex and tether and you know there's there's a huge push within the Blockstream, you know with their liquid foundation, basically their own federated Sidechain you know to to incorporate tether into the Bitcoin ecosystem.
01:24:28:13 - 01:24:58:17
Mark
You're seeing companies really and spokesmen discourse really pushing towards this, you know, this digital dollar system as you know, something that will basically enable number go up for Bitcoin. Um, but I think there's a lot of caveats to that and I think we have to really, you know, take a step back and not just let number go up kind of, you know, induce this amnesia over the Bitcoin community that, you know, there's a lot of, you know, I'll call it orange washing.
01:24:58:19 - 01:25:28:09
Mark
A lot of these sidechains are not a net good for people. They are able to create digital ID systems, perpetuate the Treasury system at really, really high velocity. But you know, they make Bitcoin go up. So, you know, we cheer them on. And I think when you look at, you know, some of the people that are really behind these mechanisms, who funded these mechanisms, why these mechanisms were created in the first place, and you begin to see kind of this this darker picture.
01:25:28:11 - 01:25:31:18
Mark
Yeah, it's it's very concerning in my opinion.
01:25:31:20 - 01:25:57:06
Marty
It is. But I would push back and say, I don't think these elections have gotten anywhere near the degree of adoption that the likes of blockchain or ask for that matter with like like blockchains and pushing liquid for six years now. And you can look at the block Explorer they have one transaction per block and the Coinbase transaction, I think I think it's good to see that.
01:25:57:06 - 01:26:15:25
Marty
Like I don't know if it's a natural aversion or just nobody's picking up what they're putting down in terms of like the Bitcoin or I know and the companies that we invest in, like none of them are incorporating liquid or any of these sidechains cause it's like, that's boring. It's not really enabling the sovereign future that we're going after here.
01:26:15:25 - 01:26:18:02
Marty
But I can I mean, I certainly is the.
01:26:18:07 - 01:26:44:07
Mark
Totally right that it's sorry, you know, I totally agree because right now we're seeing all of these ID systems and, you know, Dollar Stablecoins be on like Etherium or Solana, right. Or whatever these these bullshit, you know, Sidechain or not Sidechains, but like all chains. But what happens when the public private, you know, gang teams up and they go, hey, Etherium is a security, Solana is a security.
01:26:44:09 - 01:27:04:11
Mark
You need to use Bitcoin because it's the only digital asset that's not a security. And then all of that movement gets pushed on to Bitcoin and then all of a sudden liquid is a is an integral pillar of, you know, basically, you know, these, these systems because they no longer can be upheld on a Etherium or on these other things.
01:27:04:11 - 01:27:26:07
Mark
So there is actually this potential for basically setting up, you know, kind of the vacuum when they pop the bubbles of these of these sidechains, you know, where do they flow to, you know, do they flow to taproot assets on Lightning Labs? Do they flow to liquid or, you know, do they flow to ask? I think we're going to see some sort of regulation.
01:27:26:09 - 01:27:48:03
Mark
The Fed, the Congress, you know, they're very much so looking at Stablecoins because they understand, you know, how important they are. And, you know, there's a how we Latin, you know, our boy all over this piece was speaking at the chain analysis conference last week and he said that, you know, the stablecoins are essential for U.S. dollar homogeneity.
01:27:48:05 - 01:28:22:03
Mark
You know, we need it to perpetuate the Treasury system. If the government knows that, the government realizes that and they want to create, you know, an enabling environment for the perpetuation of it, you know, they probably don't want to let validators in some of these sidechains make a ton of money. They want to, you know, push it really just to the, you know, the holders of these treasuries and let's reduce the costs as much as possible at the granular points otherwise, and really just push all the profits, you know, into who holds these treasuries and in which case we could see an explosion of volume on these Sidechains.
01:28:22:03 - 01:28:40:21
Mark
I definitely agree with you. It hasn't happened yet, but who knows where we're going? You know, we could see PayPal's stablecoin be issued on one of these things and, you know, they integrate it with Venmo, they integrate it with PayPal, and all of a sudden you have 100 million users across the world or more. That's all it takes.
01:28:40:21 - 01:28:58:26
Mark
And I think that's why there's an important part of this. This system being set up is the Mercado Libra play, which we haven't really talked about too much. You know, you need a market. One of the big reasons why PayPal was able to take hold was because of eBay. You know, eBay didn't really make a lot of sense when you had to have the, you know, these long settlement times.
01:28:58:28 - 01:29:20:27
Mark
It didn't really work for this type of online auction house. So they had to you know, they really used PayPal and it took it took huge market hold because of the, you know, this huge market. Um, you know, that that was that was native to the Internet. MERCADO Libra is basically the Amazon and eBay of South America, of Latin America.
01:29:21:00 - 01:29:52:19
Mark
All they have to do is integrate one of these things and we'll see 100 million plus people more way more than that billion, you know, have access to whatever infrastructure provider that they choose. And we've seen them already have some sort of connections with tether with Circle and with Xapo, who has connections with both, who expressly expressly admit that their goal is to connect to the US dollar, Bitcoin and Stablecoins and be the banking service for all of these things.
01:29:52:22 - 01:30:11:13
Mark
Xapo is also partnered with Saturn Logic to put Bitcoin keys in space. I mean, we're seeing a lot of, you know, all they have to do is flip a switch basically at this point and they can onboard, you know, billions of people if they have a need to go on to use these systems as long as the cost is low enough.
01:30:11:15 - 01:30:26:00
Mark
So we could see we could see that happen at any point. I think adoption of these sidechains is really dependent on the market first and mercato Libra could be that market for for, you know, 30 plus countries, right?
01:30:26:03 - 01:30:44:04
Marty
Yeah I wish them luck. I just don't wish them luck. But yeah, I think and Whitney, getting back to what you said earlier, I think that's the big question in my mind right now, because we've talked about this throughout the years on the show, like what can we do to protect ourselves against this? Individuals become a sovereign as possible.
01:30:44:06 - 01:31:16:16
Marty
Daigou yourself, grow your own food, use Bitcoin the right way. But do you think there needs to to push back against this because they literally have satellites surveilling the panopticon? It's gone from from the Pennsylvania State Penitentiary in Philadelphia, where it's a physical place where there's something in the middle that can surveil humans in a physical space within a hundred yard radius to literally satellites spanning the whole globe and surveilling from space.
01:31:16:18 - 01:31:55:18
Marty
Do you think there is going to be a necessary pushback from private sector actors that don't want to be beholden to carbon credit markets to stand up and say, No, I'm not participating in this, I'm not buying carbon credits, I'm not incorporating it into my business, Or is this more of a social movement where we need individuals like the two of you to write pieces to get in front of this and educate people and literally pink prod and poke the facade to highlight the hypocrisy and the giant scam that all of this is.
01:31:55:20 - 01:32:12:13
Whitney
Yeah, I mean, I think the cornerstone of the response really does need to be self reliance because if you're hoping on people in the private sector solving this problem for you because, they don't like ESG. I don't think that's enough at all. In talking about this public private play, it's important to keep in mind that what happens I mean, just look at this.
01:32:12:14 - 01:32:42:14
Whitney
The Treasury secretary office alone. So like in Clinton, it was Robert Rubin, Rubin, Goldman Sachs. He helps repeal Glass-Steagall. And then when that whole bubble pops in 2008, Goldman is Henry Paulson is treasury of the secretary. Then it's Tim Geithner who worked under Larry Summers, and Robert Rubin is treasury secretary under Obama. And then it's Steve Manoogian who was involved in the 2008 financial crisis and whose dad was one of the top guys at Goldman Sachs, and he was also Goldman Sachs.
01:32:42:17 - 01:33:08:26
Whitney
So what they do when they're in power is that they create policies that help benefit them. You know, they came from Goldman Sachs with intentions to implement policies that benefit Goldman Sachs. Right. And so generally what happens is that when the private sector wants something or they want, they've created a big market for something, they've invested lots money in creating something like the carbon market and no one's using the carbon market.
01:33:08:29 - 01:33:29:22
Whitney
They are going to then use the public sector to force people to use carbon market. And so they're trying to do that through the through the guise of climate emergency. Right. And that's not working. So if that's not working, how will they go about and how will they do it? Well, like Mark and I have discussed before, they're trying to go about it the private sector route.
01:33:29:22 - 01:33:52:29
Whitney
Okay, You guys are interested in Programable surveillance money if it's emitted by the central bank. So if it's emitted by a private bank, maybe you will. Right. And but the other side of this is what's happening in places like Argentina are right now where people have lost so much of their purchasing power. So like before Malay came to power, I think the poverty rate was just I mean, it was insanely high.
01:33:52:29 - 01:34:12:18
Whitney
I think it was something like 60%. And then Malay came into power and devalued the currency by 50%, which led to a massive loss of purchasing power for Argentinians. On top of that now, Argentinians are so desperate and are being told that they're undergoing, quote unquote, shock therapy designed by a Jp morgan guy that they're doing world coin.
01:34:12:18 - 01:34:39:13
Whitney
They're their eyes in the Sam Altman orb for shit coins and a cattle tag, a digital I.D. And the idea is to have that be like your access to the Internet and using, you know, these tokens and these stablecoins using tether. You aren't using usdc or whatever supported by Mercadolibre's giant entity. Mercado, Pago, which is also integrated with Brazil's biggest crypto exchange, Mercado Bitcoin.
01:34:39:13 - 01:34:58:23
Whitney
And then there's repo and the max, which is partnered with all of these guys to their can. They're going to control all the rails that stuff runs on. And that's where people are running because their money has been so devalued and they have no alternative. And I think ultimately the goal is to get people on programable available money by any means necessary.
01:34:58:23 - 01:35:17:12
Whitney
So if you won't do it because you're like, Oh yeah, this is a way I'm to use Jp morgan coin and beat the Fed. Cbdc You know, if that if you're not going to get suckered into that, then, you know, it seems like they'll use destabilization, desperation as a way to get people to onboard into the systems that they're creating.
01:35:17:12 - 01:35:46:24
Whitney
They're not just going to spend billions of dollars creating these systems and have no one use them. They're going to try and use either, you know, desperation created by public sector policies or by private sector policies and then have, you know, sort of like 2008. Oh, look, the private banks have destroyed the economy. Now we need the public sector to come in and rein them in, even though Obama's cabinet that was supposed to be doing that was literally chosen by Citigroup.
01:35:47:00 - 01:36:04:23
Whitney
Right. They're the ones that are going to come in and they're going to rein these in. And these are the policies and changes that need to be made. But actually, it's the bankers that wrote the changes that need to be made. Right. So we're likely going to get set up for something like that where. They're going to try and make existing money worthless.
01:36:04:23 - 01:36:37:15
Whitney
And if you want your money to be worth anything and maintain any sort of semblance of purchasing power, you have to use a financial products X, Y and Z, and they're all going to be programable and surveilled, all if not by the private sector, by the public sector. And they're going to all going to be interoperable. They're going to be all these on all these different wallets and digital ID systems that look like they're different companies, but they're all the same essentially in terms that they can export all their data to the same central global database.
01:36:37:17 - 01:36:56:11
Whitney
And, you know, that's essentially the goal here. So how do we fight against that? Don't use database, don't use the digital wallet, don't use the digital ID, don't interact with the system. And I think also, you know, I think Bitcoin is is obviously very key to their plans. They need Bitcoin to stay, as Larry Fink said, a technology for asset storage.
01:36:56:11 - 01:37:09:22
Whitney
They refused to have it be a currency. And actually Jeffrey Epstein gave an interview about Bitcoin that I didn't know about until maybe like a couple months ago when we started researching this. Oh, yes, he says. The exact thing.
01:37:09:25 - 01:37:10:16
Mark
Is going to be fine.
01:37:10:16 - 01:37:16:19
Whitney
It's yeah, it's not a currency. It's, you know, a technology for asset storage.
01:37:16:19 - 01:37:20:23
Marty
There's there's another very prominent Bitcoin here that likes to roll with that line.
01:37:20:25 - 01:37:22:28
Whitney
So yeah.
01:37:23:01 - 01:37:27:13
Marty
So like Michael Saylor is property It's not, it's not currency.
01:37:27:13 - 01:37:35:00
Whitney
Yeah Yeah. It's funny that the chiefs of staff of come from MicroStrategy. That's interesting anyway.
01:37:35:03 - 01:37:38:07
Mark
And it's not done.
01:37:38:10 - 01:38:06:24
Whitney
Yet. So anyway, basically if Bitcoin is kept in that box that people like Larry Fink and Jeffrey Epstein and people like them, Larry Summers presumably was on the Xapo advisory board. You know, these guys want Bitcoin to be a specific thing because they can use it and there's people in the space like this IRS guy saying Bitcoin needs to lose its revolutionary ethos.
01:38:06:27 - 01:38:18:19
Whitney
It's got to drop that and become a tool for Wall Street. I think it's pretty obvious what needs to be done to scuttle those plans, which would be ensure the opposite. Yes, yes.
01:38:18:21 - 01:38:19:23
Marty
Yes. Use open source.
01:38:19:23 - 01:38:25:25
Whitney
So know where. Yes. So people need to be putting resources into making that happen. And by trying.
01:38:25:25 - 01:38:26:09
Marty
My best here.
01:38:26:10 - 01:38:26:21
Whitney
We know the.
01:38:26:21 - 01:38:28:22
Marty
Facts about this.
01:38:28:25 - 01:38:59:00
Whitney
Well, sure. But basically, to recap on that, if they need the bitcoin blockchain for asset storage and presumably if we're right about what's going on in this article, we seem to be carbon markets. They need that blockchain. How do we make invert their plans and use the Bitcoin blockchain so that it's a the tool of financial freedom? It was heralded to be because they can't get rid of it without scuttling their own plans.
01:38:59:03 - 01:39:03:07
Whitney
No. Right. So how do we a.
01:39:03:10 - 01:39:16:20
Marty
Bitcoin is money. It's not digital per use, it is digital property, but it is money. I, i and it's hard within bitcoin. There's a lot of hero worship these days. A lot of people get a lot of pushback. It's like the answer is.
01:39:16:21 - 01:39:28:28
Whitney
I mean, it's everywhere. Yeah. And that's pretty much most of the heroes are bitches for bankers. The reason bitcoin is in politics I'm sorry, but it's on the mark.
01:39:28:28 - 01:39:29:18
Marty
But I'm sure.
01:39:29:21 - 01:39:49:07
Mark
Trump observes, Trump is not here to save you. Q And on while a very fun time, we all had a great time looking at it. It was an Operation Trust. It was, Hey, our guys in there, don't worry about it, We got it. And now here we are. And they locked down the country. They printed trillions of dollars.
01:39:49:09 - 01:40:12:29
Mark
They pushed Big Pharma products. I mean, none of these people are going to jail like now. So I think we I think what you really nailed it with this inversion thing, and I know it's very controversial within Bitcoin itself, but I think if we kind of use Bitcoin as a mechanism to store things as well, again, it's it is a database.
01:40:13:01 - 01:40:46:08
Mark
We need to enable Bitcoin as a currency as much as possible. Stablecoins are not a scaling option for bitcoin. It's fucking embarrassing that we that we're there, that that's our best scaling option. I think that's a terrible way, especially when it's Treasury based. You know, we can do some fun things with the Elks, we can do some fun things with cash, we can do fun things with lightning backed E cash where we can create or lightning channels even that basically, you know, create, you know, a stable dollar purchasing, you know, ability without actually touching Treasuries at all.
01:40:46:10 - 01:41:14:07
Mark
These are the kind of things we need to play with. I understand and I empathize with people that are looking for dollar instruments in certain economic environments and political environments. But ultimately, if Bitcoin just becomes okay, 10,000 people got really rich and now it's a it's a data storage blockchain for dollar assets because of, you know, Lightning Labs, tap root assets or whatever it is that comes up, that comes up next.
01:41:14:10 - 01:41:50:25
Mark
I think I think we've really failed at the promise that Bitcoin could be. And so I think there's a lot of ways we can fight back and obviously we need to do things like this, get like minded people together and talk very earnestly about this stuff, people that don't have financial incentives. I think that's a huge problem in the Bitcoin space, specifically with Stablecoins is that so many people in space are paid for by tether and I'm sure a lot of them are well-meaning, but you know, they're not going to talk crap about, you know, the perpetuation of the Treasury system by a private company that has onboarded the FBI and the Secret Service to
01:41:50:25 - 01:42:14:03
Mark
their company to allow, you know, U.S. intelligence to and U.S. law enforcement to blacklist addresses like that's not banking the global South, that's not banking the unbanked. That's just like perpetuating this, you know, dollar denominated, you know, debt model over the world, which I think is obviously not something that we want to see. Bitcoin can do so much more.
01:42:14:05 - 01:42:32:04
Mark
So how can we use Bitcoin cleverly, you know, if they want to use it to store dollar, you know, assets in the witness Merkle You know, we can use it to store, you know, data cables. We can use it to store, you know, articles like this you can publish with markdown files to Bitcoin. There's a lot of things that we can do.
01:42:32:04 - 01:42:54:15
Mark
Bitcoin is not going away because it's too important as an enabling environment for a lot of these things. I think this idea that, you know, I saw even Edward Snowden tweet out, you know, Gary Gensler had tears in his eyes. He approved the BlackRock ETF and it's just like, give me a break, dude. Like, no, the state absolutely wanted Bitcoin to have an ETF.
01:42:54:15 - 01:43:19:04
Mark
They hold more Bitcoin than anyone. The U.S., DOJ and, you know, private companies within the United States hold more Bitcoin than anyone else. Significant portion of the supply. This idea that you know this is this you know complete counter revolution to U.S. dollar interest I think is a little bit misguided and naive at this point. Now we have to really make sure that we don't allow it to be co-opted by dollar risers.
01:43:19:07 - 01:43:40:25
Mark
We don't allow Bitcoin to be dollar ized. And instead we push back and we say, hey, I have an ability to send you Marty money without any fucking spook getting in the fucking way at all. And that's fucking important and that's magical and that's something that, you know, we need to make sure stays possible, that, you know, we own UTC's owns, we own the ability to do that.
01:43:41:01 - 01:44:01:05
Mark
We'll be able to transact, you know, on Bitcoin to each other for, you know, the next for the rest of our lives. How can we get a billion people there? How can we get more people to have that same permissionless access to Bitcoin that we have because we were quote unquote, early adopters? Right? There were much earlier adopters than us that have a lot more Bitcoin than us.
01:44:01:05 - 01:44:24:03
Mark
You know, who are they? You know, why is D hock, why is John Reed, why is Larry Summers on the on the advisory board to zappo in 2013, 2014? You know, these huge titans of Citibank of a visa? You know, why is Epstein talking about Bitcoin back then? You know, there's a lot of people in there that have a lot more Bitcoin than us right now.
01:44:24:10 - 01:44:26:25
Mark
How do we remain? Yeah, go for it.
01:44:27:01 - 01:44:35:26
Marty
I'm sorry for interrupting again. Xapo acquired by Coinbase holds all the ETF bitcoin.
01:44:35:29 - 01:44:47:04
Mark
Yeah, the custody. Yes, exactly that the custody solution that xapo, you know. Yeah, they were I think they literally marketed themselves as the Fort Knox of Bitcoin think which is a kind of.
01:44:47:11 - 01:44:52:02
Whitney
Interesting analogy to choose. Yes. Mm hmm.
01:44:52:05 - 01:45:00:03
Mark
And the tie you neck of of, you know, it's like what what actually happened to Fort Knox here. Yeah.
01:45:00:05 - 01:45:37:10
Marty
White pill. White pill. Don't want to be too optimistic. And we should certainly be aware and fighting and all this stuff. But I am incredibly encouraged by all the innovation that's happening, particularly with charming events, whether that's on the caching protocol or the ferryman protocol. It is obviously does come with some custody trade offs. But I think the privacy benefits and the fact that you can build these modular DLC stability pools within charming ecosystems that give you the same functionality of the essentially controlled stablecoins is very promising.
01:45:37:12 - 01:45:41:27
Marty
I mean, we're doing everything we can in 1031 in the back the company is pushing.
01:45:41:27 - 01:45:42:15
Mark
Yeah, you are.
01:45:42:16 - 01:46:07:02
Marty
The industry tone in this particular direction. We've got the team here in the Mutiny team here working hard to do this, and I think it's a combination of things that are it's a success, the backing of these broad projects, number one and two, what you guys are doing, the educating the market and really instilling confidence in people to push back against this because it is a bit daunting, it is a bit ominous.
01:46:07:07 - 01:46:32:25
Marty
It is David versus Goliath like fight where people have been psyops into believing they have no agency in their for no ability to push back against this. But it's here. The tools are being built. It's got to be aware of them, support them, adopt them. And then at the same time as Whitney likes to say, stab a needle in the eye of everybody trying to push us towards the digital panopticon.
01:46:32:28 - 01:47:08:15
Whitney
Yeah, well, I think it's important to say to that. I think there's a lot of people in the Bitcoin media space that will never talk about this or what you just mentioned. And I think a lot of that is because a lot of money and effort has been put into specifically homogenizing media discourse in the Bitcoin space because they want them, they want Bitcoiners as much as possible to be compliant while Larry Fink and his ilk do what they want with Bitcoin and make it what they want it to be so that people are content with number grow up.
01:47:08:15 - 01:47:38:25
Whitney
And sort of the Saylor esque talking that have gotten a lot of you know, a lot of people have heard those verses, what you just mentioned from example, you know, it there needs to be a cultural shift in Bitcoin in the opposite direction of what this Diego guy from Rootstock said, where he's like, we need to drop the whole, you know, stop fiscal irresponsibility of the banks and central banks and, you know, be a challenge and threat to their power.
01:47:38:25 - 01:48:15:08
Whitney
We have to drop that if we want to get rich. I mean, that's the mentality there. And I feel like the Saylor mentality really isn't that different from that. We have to push people in the other direction because if we go in the direction they're pushing those people to go and, you know, people that want to drop the ethos or whatever and make Bitcoin just a tool for Wall Street, I mean, you know, if we let that happen, the very bad things happen and there has to be a fight and there's a specific effort that's been launched against, people that hold Bitcoin to try and get them to be compliant in that sense, you know,
01:48:15:08 - 01:48:30:29
Whitney
and but and that's through, you know, controlling the discourse in the media space. There needs to be a desire among bitcoiners to return to the original ethos, not the opposite. There needs to be a fight for that. People need to care about that again.
01:48:31:01 - 01:48:31:19
Marty
Imagine the.
01:48:31:19 - 01:48:56:04
Mark
Glory. Compliance is not defiance. I think as the Bitcoin Bugle Boys like to say compliance. They say compliance is defiance, which obviously is making fun of this stuff. And I totally agree. Whitney. And, you know, I think it was very said very clearly in the Saylor keynote from PAC Bitcoin 2022. Literally, as you know, FDX was collapsing around us.
01:48:56:04 - 01:49:15:00
Mark
You know, literally, you know, our phones are blowing up. All this crazy shit's happening November 20, 22 sailors on stage saying, don't be a martyr, don't fight the system. Stablecoins on lightning is a $10 trillion industry. You know, let's let's go. Let's bring it on. You know, we're all going to get rich. Don't be a martyr now.
01:49:15:00 - 01:49:16:22
Whitney
And over for Larry.
01:49:16:25 - 01:49:40:19
Mark
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bite the pillow They're going in. Rah. I don't want this to be like calling for people to to go to go be a martyr. Like, I'm not saying go set yourself on fire in front of the BlackRock headquarters. That's I'm not that's not helpful or useful either. It's not productive at all. Plus the admissions carbon emissions from burning yourself.
01:49:40:19 - 01:49:45:04
Mark
I think, you know, it's very bad. I would hate to see.
01:49:45:07 - 01:49:48:10
Marty
You're going to get it. You're going to be in a state in a state texting on. Tell your.
01:49:48:10 - 01:49:49:09
Whitney
Family be taxed.
01:49:49:09 - 01:49:49:25
Mark
For that.
01:49:49:25 - 01:49:54:12
Marty
Yeah yeah and imagine the glory.
01:49:54:14 - 01:49:58:09
Mark
I oh sad a logic yeah.
01:49:58:11 - 01:50:00:06
Marty
Imagine the glory. I think we can.
01:50:00:09 - 01:50:02:07
Mark
But there has to be things we have to do.
01:50:02:10 - 01:50:26:27
Marty
Yes but in the the path that we're describing here is a harder path to take. It's going to take longer. It's going to take a lot more effort. It's going to take a lot more education and new learnings from individuals to actually interact with this compared to an ETF where you don't enter, you interact with TD Ameritrade or whoever, you just click a button and that's your interaction with Bitcoin.
01:50:27:00 - 01:50:55:12
Marty
That's not the future we want. We want to actually interact with the protocol in the layers built on top of it, actually hold and use Bitcoin correctly and. I want to paint a picture of a glorious victory where we successfully do that and if we can build out the tools and make Bitcoin as useful and provide the market with fundamental utility that gives people agency over their money, Bitcoin will number will go up naturally from that that path as well.
01:50:55:12 - 01:50:58:19
Marty
So it's going to be longer and harder, but I promise you.
01:50:58:21 - 01:51:26:08
Whitney
Yeah, but it doesn't involve everyone's financial enslavement and it doesn't enable the fiscal irresponsibility of the commercial and central banks to you to dump all the irresponsible like debt generated by their money printing into like bitcoin and be like all problem solved, keep printing forever. I mean that's basically what they want to do. It's insane. It is. There's people that are like, that's fine because now I have money and it's like, yeah, so you remember why you got into this?
01:51:26:08 - 01:51:28:01
Whitney
And like, you know, I don't know.
01:51:28:03 - 01:51:28:23
Marty
Yeah, I mean, it's.
01:51:28:24 - 01:51:31:13
Whitney
Just people let's go back. People.
01:51:31:16 - 01:51:49:20
Mark
Yeah. People get on us. I think I'm. I'm still new at you know, some of that stuff and you know I still read comments and whatever and, and I see people say stuff, you know, where they're like, well, you don't offer any solutions. You're just black pilled, you're like doom shilling. And it's like I'm actually like a really upbeat, optimistic guy.
01:51:49:26 - 01:52:07:13
Mark
Like, I think we're going to win. I think we have a lot of work ahead of us and we have an incredibly ghoulish apparatus at us that we need to fight. But I really you know, I'm a monomyth guy. I believe in the you know, our history is fake and but the stories are real. And then the story, the good comes together in the end.
01:52:07:13 - 01:52:29:19
Mark
And, you know, they they defeat the dragon or whatever. Right. And and I think that's what we have to do here. And I'm really thankful for shows like the FTC and, you know, certain platforms where we actually can talk about this stuff still. You know, there's like a couple of them and, you know, getting us like people together just to be able to talk freely about this stuff is so important.
01:52:29:22 - 01:52:47:14
Mark
You know, this is you know, this is this is fiery stuff, I think with this piece and and particularly with kind of this conspiracy of what they're trying to do. But it hasn't happened yet. You know, like, none of this stuff has really been enacted yet. It's all about to be enacted. And there's a bunch of stuff that we can still do and push back.
01:52:47:20 - 01:53:16:28
Mark
And as much as Bitcoin is an empowerment tool, you know, for a lot of these evil people, it also can be in an empowerment tool, you know, for revolutionary actions. So, you know, maybe they made a mistake if they tried to co-opt Bitcoin and they let a bunch of us get funding. Maybe they made a mistake by letting your fund be able to fund Mutiny and Fatty, you know, and by letting us get some capital and deploy it efficiently.
01:53:16:28 - 01:53:42:15
Mark
You know, like we actually have an ability here. What happens? I think this is one of the most important years for Bitcoin. I think it's one of the most important moments ever for humanity, you know, because this this revolution is happening regardless, this digitalization, you know, this this panopticon is going to be built. And, you know, we have to kind of make technological strides and push back now.
01:53:42:18 - 01:53:58:11
Mark
And there are so many ways we can do it. But ultimately, you know, it's really about, you know, the revolution is an internal thing. It's a it's a singular thing. And, you know, we just have to live better lives and we have to, you know, give the lives to our kids that, you know, that they deserve and show them the world that they deserve.
01:53:58:11 - 01:54:21:20
Mark
And we can win on so many different levels. You know, the human spirit is is a beautiful, wonderful thing. And it can't be captured by a blockchain, you know, run by some federated signers somewhere. You know, there's there's so many things that just can't bogged down by a blockchain. So, you know, we got to really just, you know, buckle down, figure out, you know, who are enemies are.
01:54:21:20 - 01:54:42:21
Mark
And a lot of them are are, you know, in sheep's clothing. And we roll down the red carpet for them at all these events was they're literally manufacturing consent for censorship for dollarization and the enslavement of the global South via dollars. And we need to push back on these things, not be afraid to talk about them as discourse is the first thing they capture.
01:54:42:27 - 01:55:04:05
Mark
It's also the first ground that we can win with truth. Truth resonates like crazy. There's a reason why I jokingly refer to Whitney as like the Ghost in the Machine, where she gets some crazy numbers on these things. But like, you know, she's pushing back on. They're very tools. Like, that's what's so funny about, you know, you know, where were enslaved by the algorithms, right?
01:55:04:05 - 01:55:21:05
Mark
But also we can fight back using those same algorithms that, you know, are trying to enslave us. We can push back with good content. It does resonate. So it's really important that we do this stuff. And yeah, that's thankful to be here. Yeah. And there's so much left to do, but this is where it starts really is discourse.
01:55:21:08 - 01:55:39:02
Marty
Well, discourse and I'm very happy you said the R word because that's talk about language control. That's one word revolution. That's some bitcoiners like, don't say it. Don't say it like, we don't want the state to think that we're pushing up against them. It's like, no, we need a revolution. Look around you. Look at what's going on. Look at this.
01:55:39:02 - 01:56:06:03
Marty
Yeah. Carbon credit. They're literally sending satellites to the sky to send data to smart contracts that dictate whether or not you can spend money at the grocery store next month. Like it is time for a revolution. The revolution does not need to be bloody. I don't think like you just said, Mark. I think we have the ability to leverage the same tools that they do in a different way to have a successful revolution and against this impending fucking hellscape that they're trying to push on us.
01:56:06:05 - 01:56:11:02
Marty
And you can't be afraid of that. We're I to be open about it. Go ahead, Whitney.
01:56:11:04 - 01:56:33:18
Whitney
I just want to chime in really quick. So part of what we're talking about here, part of the way to like, defeat this apparatus that Mark and as Mark referred to it, so much of what they do, including like their media ops in efforts to control discourse, but also just like getting people to onboard to stuff when they otherwise want it, it all runs on fear.
01:56:33:20 - 01:56:54:09
Whitney
Right? And like all the stuff that happened during COVID, people fell in line because of fear. It's all fear based pretty much everything they do. A great way to not fall into that is not be afraid of these people no matter what psyop they throw at you and. I think this year, election year, not just in the U.S., but in much of the world.
01:56:54:11 - 01:57:19:05
Whitney
Yeah, unprecedented fear based psyops are going to be coming one after the other until they get enough people comply and acquiesce in the way to, you know, get around. That is to not fall into it. You know, it's the trap and a lot of it is the media discourse. And I think, know, the more controlled online discourse becomes, the greater the effort will be to use it to get people to be very afraid of what's happening.
01:57:19:08 - 01:57:42:28
Whitney
And if you unplug a little bit and spend more time in like the actual world, you are much less likely to feel that way. And I think that's why during COVID they wanted so much of our discourse to be online and then they took even greater control of the online discourse. And we know now under the guise of election censorship, they're going to clamp down even more on online discourse and lead it in very particular directions.
01:57:42:28 - 01:58:01:26
Whitney
They want Americans in particular to be at each other's throats, you know, textbook divide and conquer, among other things. So, I mean, they have this whole war on domestic terror apparatus, all this stuff about civil war, and we need this and that. Regular Americans are generally on the same side and they want to divide everyone. And it's all through fear.
01:58:01:26 - 01:58:32:27
Whitney
And they've been doing this psyop after PSYOP after signing up, whether it's 911, Korea, you name it. I mean, it's all fear based and wants to alienate, alienate you from your local community. Like again, it's about self-reliance at the local level. You know that's a big part of the response. But it's also, you know, getting people, not just you yourself, though, obviously that's where you start, but making sure that fear doesn't anchor in so you know where you are based.
01:58:33:00 - 01:58:37:01
Whitney
I think that's a big part of it. Just that's all I wanted to say. Thanks.
01:58:37:03 - 01:58:53:23
Marty
Yeah. Well, and in terms of like this, like in two points, what you said earlier, election year, fear based divide and conquer is being employed. If you're not for Biden, you should be for Trump. If you're not for Trump, you should be for Biden. Bullshit.
01:58:53:26 - 01:58:56:29
Whitney
They do this every four years. How have people not figured it out.
01:58:57:02 - 01:59:16:04
Marty
And we have we have an example. We have an example this week. Nothing matters because the FISA reauthorization in the the expansion of fights this week you have a republic controlled controlled House, you have a Democrat president, and they're both like, Yeah, we're going to surveil.
01:59:16:11 - 01:59:22:20
Whitney
Same shit, different rhetoric, only difference. I mean, it's it's a rhetorical difference that's ultimately meaningless.
01:59:22:23 - 01:59:45:11
Marty
And with on the line of like pushing all the discourse digital like what they just expanded FISA to be able to do is going to be it will give the government the ability to randomly target people that are exhibiting speech that they don't like like. They just got the ability to literally tell coffee shops like, you need to give us all your Wi-Fi traffic data so that we can surveil everybody.
01:59:45:13 - 01:59:50:07
Marty
Pfizer, which was originally supposed to be targeted towards foreigners.
01:59:50:08 - 01:59:51:06
Whitney
Terrorists?
01:59:51:07 - 01:59:52:14
Marty
Yeah. Terrorists now.
01:59:52:20 - 01:59:54:05
Whitney
Yeah. Well.
01:59:54:07 - 01:59:56:17
Marty
The government just told the coffee shop they had to get.
01:59:56:19 - 02:00:21:16
Whitney
What Palantir originally was. So Palantir was originally total information awareness, and then they tried to rename it terrorist Information Awareness. But total information awareness is what they always wanted, and that's surveilling everyone for everything. And it's surveilling people at the biological level, like the to stop pandemics before they start narrative. That was part of it. It was also about financial surveillance.
02:00:21:19 - 02:00:51:18
Whitney
It was surveilling what you buy at the grocery store. That is literally what they are doing again. But it's a mix of public entities and private entities that are all in these involved in these opaque partnerships. So it's not one clearly defined program at DARPA like it was originally supposed to be, but the goal is to completely erode privacy, to completely surveil everything and prevent X before it happens, X being literally anything they don't want to happen or say they don't want to happen.
02:00:51:23 - 02:01:11:07
Whitney
So prevent crime before it happens. Precrime William Barr, Attorney General under Trump, legalized pre-crime in the United States. It will come. They've set it up, you know, and they want it all to run on your data. They want to prevent you know, they'll say it's for terrorist attacks, it's for pandemics, it's for crisis X, Y, and Z, it's for climate calamity.
02:01:11:09 - 02:01:20:18
Whitney
You know, we have prevent it before it happens. It's all algorithmic based, but it's all they can only manufacture consent for that if there's a climate of fear.
02:01:20:21 - 02:01:22:04
Marty
Yeah.
02:01:22:07 - 02:01:45:29
Mark
What's that? So forever more that Trevor Moore tweet where he's like, Hey, what if, you know, all these spooks discovered, you know, through the culture program, you can control humans through fear based tactics. And now they simulate, you know, events in the public to instill fear to like control the masses, you know, ha ha ha. And then, you know, of course, he died, you know, a month later or whatever.
02:01:45:29 - 02:02:15:12
Mark
But I think that idea of, you know, fear based control, it's something that we've seen. You know, there's this great Baudrillard book, the Macron simulation, that, you know, talks about this idea of, you know, if you are a person in a bodega and someone comes in to rob the place and you you, you this this fears instilled in you because someone comes in with a gun and holds it up at the person and goes to rob the register and you're fearful for your life.
02:02:15:12 - 02:02:37:05
Mark
And then as soon as it's over, they turn and they go, hey, just kidding. I'm actually an actor and he's an actor and this is a fake gun. It doesn't matter. The fear and the emotional output that you had because of this, this simulated input, it doesn't matter that it's fake. You still have that same emotional response and you still react in the way as if it was real.
02:02:37:08 - 02:03:01:11
Mark
You know, they realize this, that this is such an incredible tactic to control people on an individual level. This very clearly works at, you know, at a at a mass level. And now we're seeing, you know, fear based tactics everywhere. I mean, COVID made us fearful of each other. The climate, you know, game, game, game here makes us fearful.
02:03:01:13 - 02:03:22:13
Mark
You know, it makes humans basically. Exactly. It makes us fearful of the earth. And also the the thing that causes the weather to go bad is human action. It makes the enemy of the world. Humans are like themselves. And this is something explicitly stated by like the Club of Rome, you know, ghouls that, you know, are behind a lot of these things.
02:03:22:16 - 02:03:51:03
Mark
You know, they've really turned humans into being fearful of each other, divided. If there's a subject they don't want people to talk about, they create, you know, through Operation Mockingbird and other other tactics, they create manufactured discourse about manufactured events to shepherd people into this fake false dichotomy. And now we're stuck in these these these two choices that were both fake, you know, to begin with that were that were simulated through fake events.
02:03:51:05 - 02:04:06:18
Mark
And it's it's really it's really wild when you see, you know, okay, you know, hey, YouTube is is you know, is bad because Google's bad. And we all know that, right? So let's all go to rumble. Well, hey, Cantor Fitzgerald took a rumble, you know, public, right? It's the same.
02:04:06:18 - 02:04:08:04
Whitney
People that are you know.
02:04:08:06 - 02:04:40:08
Mark
Peter Thiel funds it from Palantir, the same people that we're fearful. What are we afraid of? Google? Oh, because they have all our data and they run everything. And and, you know, they're not so great. Well, volunteers better. Cantor Fitzgerald is better. Why is Peter Thiel better than Susan? You know, YouTube. Why is that any better? You know, it's this total false dichotomy and we fall hook, line and sinker for it because we have these pied pipers that are literally paid, you know, to lead us there.
02:04:40:10 - 02:04:51:29
Mark
You can see that on X. So so like obviously with, you know, the people paid by by Evan to to post on there, you know idea that X is the public square is just so rich.
02:04:52:00 - 02:04:52:12
Marty
The amount.
02:04:52:12 - 02:04:55:07
Mark
Of you know now they're going to start charging for posts.
02:04:55:09 - 02:05:12:16
Marty
The amount of murder videos I've been fed and like fights at schools that I've been fed. And another thing is getting so egregious, like around the totality solar eclipse, the amount of content that was just being flooded with, oh my gosh, the world is going to end after this is going to be earthquakes like they're going to cyber attack, like it's the most people.
02:05:12:17 - 02:05:16:28
Whitney
Scared as fuck all the time. That's what they're doing. Yeah. You know.
02:05:17:00 - 02:05:36:27
Marty
And I almost fell for it over the weekend with the Iran bombing. Israel, I was like, Oh shit, World War Three. Then I took a couple of minutes. I was at a baseball game with my boys and my wife, and I was like, You know what? This is definitely something being manipulated here. All wars are banker wars and both sides are being played in this.
02:05:36:27 - 02:06:07:25
Mark
Iran totally wasn't incurred by the CIA. You know, it's totally not a world empire. You know, all of these conflicts are real. Russia and Ukraine didn't have the exact same COVID policies. You know, it's just it's lunacy that we you know, we understand so much about what's happening, you know, zoomed out. And then when we get locked into these little, you know, I'm on team, I'm on Team B, it's like for fuck that guy, you know, he's wearing the wrong color on his shirt.
02:06:07:27 - 02:06:30:23
Mark
You know, I'm a Red Sox fan. He's a Yankees fan. Like, fuck that guy. It's like, now we're all being controlled, you know, let's let's let's get together here. Even sometimes, I think with, you know, some of the dissonance that I think was ultimately generally correct, like with COVID, you know, obviously it was it was a pretty wild to be looking around, looking for any signal anywhere.
02:06:30:26 - 02:06:46:02
Mark
But, you know, so much of COBR dissonance was, you know, absurd things about vaccines and all this stuff. And I'm not I'm not I'm no vaccine fan. I wouldn't do it. I'm not vaccinated. But, you know, a lot of the discourse was very controlled and very insane. And it's graphene and nano in you don't.
02:06:46:02 - 02:06:48:01
Marty
Have a 5G antenna in you good job.
02:06:48:01 - 02:07:12:11
Mark
Did not get it you know not yet 5G not yet. Not yet but and I don't know ultimately right like I'm not sure. I'm just guy with Internet access for the moment. But you know so much of the discourse was controlled so quickly to divide each other and to distract from no one talks about the lockdowns. No one talks about, you know, printing trillions of dollars like it's it's all about the vaccines and are you on this side or this side?
02:07:12:11 - 02:07:15:21
Mark
And it became this politicized thing that was literally inverted.
02:07:15:21 - 02:07:16:04
Whitney
In front of.
02:07:16:04 - 02:07:33:29
Mark
Our eyes where Kamala is saying, I'm not taking the vaccine because it's Trump's vaccine to six months later, you know, I'm getting yelled at and being called a Trumper because I'm not vaccinated. And it's like, well, what, he's the vaccine guy. Like what? Like no one. Just see, this phase shift happened in real life. Am I going crazy?
02:07:33:29 - 02:07:34:27
Mark
Like, what happened?
02:07:34:29 - 02:07:40:13
Marty
Excuse me? You're not a Trumper. You're murdering Trumper. Okay? You're America. Exactly.
02:07:40:16 - 02:08:03:03
Mark
Exactly. And it's just it's it's. It's so wild. And and I think even some of the smart people really fell for it. I mean, and it's really tough to stay up on PSYOPS. I mean it's very hard. But I think in general when there's something that is trying to divide people to a dichotomy, the dichotomy is wrong. Like the world is not black and white, it's very gray.
02:08:03:05 - 02:08:21:26
Mark
And so whenever there's clear black and white, you know, tropes, that's a very, very big trope of some of these, you know, groups that control us is false dichotomies of black and white. And just whenever you see that, you know, you should raise a little flag and be be wary of that. In my opinion.
02:08:21:29 - 02:08:41:01
Marty
Like read beware freaks, be aware, be the patriot. You want to be in control, don't depend on. Q Okay. F this have been great 2 hours. Do we have anything we should leave the freaks with? Whitney Any final thoughts?
02:08:41:04 - 02:09:02:15
Whitney
Yeah. Don't let them. I don't. I don't know. I mean, there's so much stuff to say. I feel like I've already said it. Just, I guess repeating. Don't fall into the fear based psyops. It's just maybe we should get off line a little bit more, everybody. And also, please do not let Bitcoin become Larry Fink's little bitch. I mean, that's just embarrassing.
02:09:02:17 - 02:09:09:09
Whitney
Yeah. Please don't do it. And in category, a.
02:09:09:12 - 02:09:21:18
Marty
Plan, a guarded number go up. Amnesia is a good, good phrase I'm going to take from this one because it is hard sitting there. You hold Bitcoin numbers going up like, Oh shit, this feels good. You have to fight that urge.
02:09:21:20 - 02:09:23:14
Mark
So totally.
02:09:23:16 - 02:09:31:14
Whitney
Well, they want to try and buy people out and be like, Oh, you wanted to be a revolutionary. Did Yeah. Well, here's, you know, six figures.
02:09:31:17 - 02:09:50:15
Mark
Yeah. How about a second saltwater pool? How About a hot tub? You know, it's like, how about you peel off a little Satoshi and get yourself some nice, you know, It's like, No, I don't give a fuck about that, actually. Like, I'm. I got into this stuff, you know, Totally not because I was never a thing about getting rich.
02:09:50:15 - 02:10:27:03
Mark
And, you know, I want to use, you know, whatever funds I've been lucky to to get to, you know, to do, to establish sustainable, which I know is a dirty word these days, but just to create sustainable architecture that that you know can really push back on these things. And, you know, I think we all have a duty, I think, of Bitcoiners to keep Bitcoin permissionless, keep the spirit alive of of the mercies and the Amir Takis and and the Smarties and, and you know, and push and push that shit forward, you know, and, and keep bitcoin keep bitcoin freaky and you know Yeah.
02:10:27:06 - 02:10:32:24
Mark
Don't don't let BlackRock dollarized Bitcoin please that's that's my final word.
02:10:32:26 - 02:10:56:06
Marty
All I know for certain I can give you two. So what I'm looking for, it's not closure. You can uh, you can understand well that there's at least four or five teams working to build products to push us in the right direction here, right in Bitcoin companies here in Austin. Educate yourself, freaks. Don't be afraid to speak up.
02:10:56:08 - 02:11:20:18
Marty
That's been one of my goals initiatives, I guess you can say over the last 6 to 9 months particularly is I repeat it. Sorry if you're listening to this and you're like, Oh my God, Marty, I can't believe you're saying it again, but it cannot be understated. You need the confidence. Speak up against this. There are very prominent figures in the space we've discussed throughout this to our conversation that want to push you a certain way.
02:11:20:21 - 02:11:44:05
Marty
Yes, they may say a lot of right things, but you have to listen for the dog whistles, trying to push you in a certain direction subconsciously and don't be afraid to speak out. They know Bitcoin is money. I do want to use it to transact. I do think the U.S. dollar reserve system is inherently evil and I do want to replace it with Bitcoin.
02:11:44:05 - 02:12:08:00
Marty
I want to use Bitcoin as my money. I want to use in the self-sovereign fashion in a peer to peer fashion and that's not bad to say. It's not bad to vocalize those thoughts, especially there may be very rich people or maybe very prominent people that maybe people who are very articulate, certainly more articulate than me, that that put a good smile on the jack people up.
02:12:08:03 - 02:12:33:09
Marty
They help number go up. But in the long run, the the the timeline of Bitcoin's success being an asset, that's Larry Fink's little pet pet pet rock that he integrates into the financial system is not the future, not the timeline that I would live on. So I have the confidence to speak up. Yeah. Wendy Marcus.
02:12:33:10 - 02:12:36:03
Whitney
And I thought, that's a very articulate mani.
02:12:36:05 - 02:12:38:27
Marty
And I'm not known for I can't pronounce word.
02:12:38:27 - 02:12:40:14
Mark
Clip it, clip it.
02:12:40:17 - 02:12:47:04
Marty
Clip it. Well, when can we expect part two to drop?
02:12:47:06 - 02:12:50:29
Mark
Oh, well, my pressure was on.
02:12:51:02 - 02:12:51:21
Marty
A month ago.
02:12:51:21 - 02:13:06:20
Mark
Yeah, having is a little crazy over here. Bitcoin magazine world. But, yeah, I'm hoping to get, you know, some some some good headway in it in the next week or two. Yeah, I'd say yeah. Since sometime in May.
02:13:06:23 - 02:13:17:10
Marty
Right. So we'll congregate again at some point in May to to follow up. Sounds good I think not repetition but to keep getting this message there. That's important.
02:13:17:13 - 02:13:21:20
Whitney
Mm hmm. Agreed. Well, thanks a lot, Marty.
02:13:21:22 - 02:13:22:11
Marty
Thank you, guys.
02:13:22:12 - 02:13:24:05
Mark
Yeah, Thanks for having us.
02:13:24:08 - 02:13:25:07
Marty
Peace, love. Okay.
