We discuss Bitcoin's potential as a stabilizing hedge against global financial instability, highlighting its growing adoption amid rising debt and inflation.
This episode of TFTC with Preston Pysh explores the fragile state of the global financial system, with a focus on the U.S. Treasury market's declining demand for long-duration bonds due to waning confidence in the government's inflation control. While issuing short-term bills offers a temporary liquidity fix, systemic issues remain unresolved. We discuss Bitcoin as a potential hedge or backing for long-term debt instruments, though opinions are divided. We also talk about the macroeconomic landscape, including the yen carry trade and the impact of stablecoins like Tether, which may signal the weakening dominance of the U.S. dollar. Additionally, the growing adoption of Bitcoin, highlighted by notable attendance at a Bitcoin conference, points to a potential acceleration in its mainstream acceptance.
The podcast reflects on the fragility of the global financial system and considers Bitcoin's potential as a stabilizing force amid rising debt and inflation. It emphasizes the urgency of addressing these economic challenges, highlighting Bitcoin as a hedge against systemic risks. While cautiously optimistic about Bitcoin's future, Pysh also acknowledges the societal challenges in shifting away from government dependency towards a value-driven, fiscally responsible system, presenting Bitcoin as a hopeful path to a more sustainable financial future.
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Treasury auctions and stablecoins
11:29 - Potentially solving the debt problem
22:54 - River & Bitkey
24:17 - Bank of Japan
25:53 - Accelerating toward the election
28:48 - Global M2 and liquidity alarm bell
38:08 - Bitcoin corporate treasuries
42:03 - Creating a soft landing
45:43 - Bitcoiners gaining influence
55:16 - How far does this cycle go?
1:02:20 - Vote with your node
1:08:45 - The handout mindset
1:11:37 - Optimism
(00:00) I think people that control a lot of buying power in the world have finally figured this out and I think that they're doing everything that they can to you know take a position size now whether it's a large position size or what or just a hedge I don't know but they're figuring it out um just look at the people that came to the conference in Nashville like they're figuring it out this rip of tftc was brought to you by river it's the best place to buy Bitcoin go to river.
(00:31) com tftc and enjoy this episode we we were talking in Nashville that was a great week and I think you really helped crystallize um an idea has been percolating obviously many circles but now is more pressing to people in the industry post Bitcoin act bill being being put on the floor by Cynthia lumus and then obviously RFK and Trump talking about um a a strategic Bitcoin Reserve at the treasury but from conversations with yourself Pier rosard Jack MERS and then listening to your episode of what Bitcoin did with Luke groman um when I
(01:14) was driving back from from a flight at had about an hour and a half drive and listened to that episode and this idea that Bitcoin could be used to basically save the long end of the curve because it seems like demand for the long end of the curve um US Treasury bonds 20 year 30 year and now it seems like even 10 year um based off of some tweets that you're sending today is critical um but before we jump into like how Bitcoin could fix it I think I saw you were tweeting um about one of Luke Roman's recent newsletters at farest um uh
(01:53) through the trees the US debt problem seems to be getting out of hand and it's beginning to to manifest itself in these treasury auctions and so yeah the tenure auction particularly this week yeah yeah the auctions are getting worse especially for way out on the duration that's why they've been doing all the bill issuance um and I mean that's really kind of the canary and the coal mine for just uh if there's if there's major issues you can't convince somebody to buy bonds that they've got a squat on
(02:27) for 30 years at whatever coupon uh and the coupons are super low and PE like why in the world would you buy something that that is paying you 3% on the principle when your expectation is there's no way in hell they can they can keep inflation under 3% that's that's the big question and so why can't they sell them without there being just a a death spiral of lack of demand that's wise because nobody believes the math anymore and so so they're forced to say okay well we're not going to issue a 30-year Bond we'll
(03:04) just issue it at 10 years and then we'll issue it at 5 years and then oh oh no we'll issue it for three Monon paper right because that's the only thing people are willing to buy because they don't even really care about the I mean they care about the the coupon for sure um I find it fascinating that the coupon at 5% which is yielding higher than like the 30-year which just tells you how jacked everything is um so them moving a shorter and shorter duration issuance is just telling you how how
(03:34) catastrophic this the fixed income and debt markets have become and this is the us we're talking about like this isn't like some third world country this is the US that these issues are are at and every other bond market in the world is a total train wreck too so yeah yeah and the recent issuance of or the recent dependence on issuing these bills over the longer duration bonds I mean many people have surmised that it's because they don't want to roll over and issue 20 30e bonds with interest rates as high
(04:07) as they are but the ramifications of over indexing for shorter durations these bills has had somewhat of a stimulating effect to the economy it's actually injected some liquidity into the economy as well and I think for the audience to get a a feel for just how much they're over indexing I think Ty typically the auctions the short-term bills are like 10 to 15% but they've been trending towards 40 to 50% of overall issuance at auction over the last 18 months to two years I believe Marty this was the this was the moment
(04:45) that uh because I had that conversation with Luke before this conversation I had with Paulo from tether okay so in the in this conversation I had with Paulo I was like so what would it take for you to start buying long duration bonds like let's just because think about it he's there buying like three Monon paper um he's he's making 5% on all this annualized he's making 5% on the principle of all this paper that he's buying to just issue more coins which are in high demand all over the planet because of
(05:17) the salability and and people that are unbanked okay so he's providing that service he gets to keep the coupon of 5% and I asked him I said and and what he's doing with the coupon which is just profit for him you know he's making billions his last quarter he made $ 1.3 billion dollar just on the coupons from all these treasuries that these short duration treasuries that he's holding and he's plowing most of all of that into Bitcoin or some type of like R&D Tech that's going to further along
(05:46) Bitcoin development in some areas but for the most part he's like plowing it all in the Bitcoin the profits and so you know if you're him it it really comes down to well if I would go to the US government and say hey if you start issuing like 10year bonds uh 20 year 30-year bonds but you back it with call it 10 20% whatever the whatever the number is of Bitcoin he's going to sweep the cash flows into Bitcoin anyway so so that becomes this uh incentive for him to actually be a buyer of the longer end
(06:20) of the curve so I I bring this idea up to him and I'm just like so like what would that what would that percentage look like for you to start buying longer duration bonds the US government came to you and said hey we we'll back the tenure with this 10year issuance with 10% Bitcoin in it would you be a buyer at that and Marty his response was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life he basically looked at me and was like yeah no no way in hell he didn't say that he didn't say that but like the look on his face was
(06:53) like give me a break like no I'm gonna I'm going to keep buying these three Monon paper and I'll I'll plow it into Bitcoin like don't I'm not I'm not going to deal with that risk of of like how much needs to be backed right and this guy is is number 18 in the world of buying us treasuries like he has more us treasuries than like most n like developed Nations that are buying us treasuries and and and the pace of his buying is only picking up like next year he'll probably be number 10 for all I
(07:23) know right in the world of buying us treasuries so that tell that for me was was such a like Landmark moment to like watch his facial expression like literally laugh me out of the room of like there's pretty much nothing they could do to like get me to start buying the long end of this curve well it's it's an insane predicament they find themselves in because like I said you just tweeted out Logan we have the Tweet if you can pull it up but for the first time in 48 years 10year US Treasury yields Rose in responds to a
(07:58) year on-year decline World USD liquidity which in our view was a warning that US debt to GDP deficit to GDP and NP to GDP are so high that US policy makers cannot overtighten USD liquidity without triggering a US debt spiral so with that context yeah in mind and Paulo's response that like there's literally nothing they could do like is the treas all that says for a person who hears all that like all it's saying is the world has finally figured out the math basically what that's all saying it's like all the buyers of this
(08:34) garbage are do are running the numbers and they don't believe the numbers and they don't want to own this garbage that's that's what that says so um you know the thing that I find so interesting Marty that's playing out right now is um dollar domination is is for people that are watching this they're saying okay like this is weird what's really weird is the demand for dollars is only going to accelerate from here okay despite all of this stuff that we're saying and the and what you're finding
(09:11) is that the demand for stable coins is going to accelerate from here like I think that the number of like just for tether alone is like 120 billion uh that they're backing with these three-month paper issuance uh that's kicking off 5% coupons I wouldn't be I don't I have no idea what that trajectory is but like if you told me next year at this time that it was 180 billion that they had backed it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit the US needs to accelerate their issuance the desire around the world for
(09:46) dollars in particular is accelerating Mo most people can't they haven't wrapped their head around Bitcoin yet they will it's just that they they're uh they're so accustomed to the dollar being this you know uh apex predator of currency relative to their local currencies I don't see the cognitive dissidence on like that versus Bitcoin changing like in the coming year um so the the demand for these dollars and the demand for people to want to to hold these stable coins in these developing nation states
(10:20) with these crap currencies is just going to accelerate um and uh and and what's so fast so people would look at this and they'd say yeah Preston but uh tether is a central bank digital currency in Disguise and blah blah blah and like all these other things and and you know what I'm not going to argue with any of that like I'm not I'm not arguing that point but this is this is the point that I that I that I really want to emphasize the fact that you're watching the the explosion and demand for stable
(10:51) coins and the US government needing basically at this point they have to have these stable coins because they're the only buyer of this garbage that they're selling um that is not them winning that is them losing epically against Bitcoin and that is a that is uh I think one of the most misunderstood things happening right now is the expansion and the explosion in like this flooding of US Dollars into the global economy is not the dollar winning I promise you it is it is it is literally the polar opposite
(11:30) yeah and it's I mean tether we recorded with Tom long Longo like three months ago and we brought up tether and the market cap was 105 billion I read a newsletter last week market cap was 114 it's already had 115 billion now check your coin market cap and like quickly climbing and so that's going to increase and even though the US government is desperate um they they they need somebody like tether to do this and it's actually preferable cuz tether is most accurately compared to the euro dollar
(12:06) market where people can create dollars and um back them with treasuries but it's more of a black box where tether's more regimented and that's probably where the um intimation that it is the the cbdc and is preferable but um trying to be pragmatic here and thinking and like walking into the thought experiment that we started the conversation with like and who knows this ever materializes but this is the way like whether it's putting a strategic Bitcoin reserve on the treasury and then figuring out a way
(12:42) to drive demand for long duration bonds by backing them with some amount of Bitcoin maybe 10 20% is enough maybe need be 30 40 50 um I think this is actually a roundabout way to solve the debt problem in the long term if you can drive demand for that and not only that like this is the way in which you can actually manifest smaller government because the government is getting so centralized and such so much bigger because they have this debt spiral problem and the only way out is to issue more debt and expand the monetary base
(13:19) and if you had a mechanism to actually pay back that bet that debt which Alexander Hamilton envisioned when he created the First Central Bank he's like if we're going to issue debt we have to figure out the ways to extinguish it um while we're issuing it as well and it seems like modern day government has gotten completely away from that concept and sprinkling some Bitcoin into it seems like the only way forward to to make that possible in my mind I agree I agree but let me let me talk through why Paulo basically laughed at me like
(13:53) if I had to sit in his seat and like and explain the math behind why he probably laughed at me this is what the math would sound like so what this what this comes down to is what do you think the terminal rate of bitcoin's buying power is going to be on the other side of hyperbitcoinization okay because until you actually know what that like have a really sound understanding of what that number is it's so much risk to because you you either don't have enough or you have uh an over capitalized uh I don't know that's the
(14:29) right word um you basically become a massive beneficiary because you underestimated like how valuable it became so here's here's what I mean by that for me when I think about the value of Bitcoin at a like when it takes over the way we understand five to10 million today is basically one Bitcoin in in my humble opinion we're somewhere in that ballpark okay it could be 20 it could be one I don't know I don't I don't think it's one but uh let's just say it's it's somewhere in that range and let's just
(14:59) say the number is $10 million of buying power per Bitcoin so here we are at and I'm going to use really round numbers we're above 50,000 but we're just going to say here we are at Bitcoin at 50,000 and if we think that the terminal value is 10 million right we have to go we have to go 20 we have to go 200x from where we're at right now in in buying power terms and that's important because in nominal Fiat terms it's just going to keep running like a German you know 1920s Germany chart but in
(15:32) buying power terms we got to go 200x from where we're at So based on those based on that math you need a half a percent of backing to of whatever garbage debt you're buying you need a half a percent of it backed by Bitcoin just to break even in buying power terms of the bonds value so if you have you know you got a million dollars worth of 30 30-year uh debt um you need uh 5 th is this math right you need $5,000 worth of bitcoin inside of that uh to to basically uh protect the buying power of the million dollars inside of the inside
(16:15) of the bond so if you're saying that uh so where I'm going with this so if if you're Paulo and you're saying oh yeah the government's coming to me they want me to start buying long duration bonds 30-year bonds and uh and it needs to have a half a percent of backing in there what you're really the risk that you're that you're taking on if you're him is that terminal value of of where you think it's going to end up because let's say they don't put a half of percent in there they put a
(16:46) quarter of a percent in there and they want you to buy it well now you just got the you lost half of your buying power by buying that long duration Bond now let's say they put 1% in there okay well you just doubled the value of your bond uh the buying power of that Bond after 30 years okay but this is this is his opportunity cost okay his opportunity cost is he can go out and buy thre Monon paper he can make 5% on the three-month paper and immediately just convert it into Bitcoin and not have to worry about
(17:20) any of the risk assumptions of the terminal value okay so that's why when I asked him this question he looked at me and just laughed because he's like well why would I why would I risk anything in all of this math when I can just you know uh it's it's almost like uh what's a good example of just simplifying things right like just keep it simple stupid and um I'm just going to keep buying the three-month paper and you know what if if this really starts to get away from them it's not going to be a 5% yield
(17:52) it'll turn into a 7% yield and guess what I'm rolling it every three months I'm not rolling this every 10 years so I don't have to think about it I don't have to try too hard and I'll just keep rolling the coupons in the Bitcoin after I received my payment after three months so that's why it's so laughable it's so laughable so like I'm coming up with this recommendation with Luke of like how could the if I'm sitting in the US Treasury chair like how can I get people
(18:18) to start buying long duration issuance well that's how I would try to do it but I think the players on the other side of the table are so astute and understand the math so well that even if they did back it and they came oh yeah here we'll back it with 10% Bitcoin or something like that right which would be you know based on the math I just described would actually be pretty entertaining but I think they're just looking at it so simply like well I just don't have to think about it too much and just I I'm
(18:46) Gonna Roll it every three months anyway so who who flipping cares yeah the the Chad Bill buyer over the uh yeah well these are the guys that are these are the guys that are dominating the trend of of buying the issuance right so good luck convincing the smart guys to like start buying your long duration garbage well the only thing that would change that right is that the curve uninverted right what so yeah yeah yeah that's a good point that's a good point so like let's say that the that the short duration started but but for the yield
(19:20) to really kind of uninverted in a way that it starts to become uh you know uh a desirable opportunity cost you actually have to have a real Market out there and you also have to have people to change their underlying Assumption of what inflation is and they have to think that it's less than 5% annualized and I don't see that happening anytime soon now the only I mean the only way that would happen is if the fed and the treasury let um the economic crisis go without bailouts this time around right and and even if they did that Marty so
(19:58) what we're talking about is let's let the cascading impairment happen let's let it really run like let's take our hands off the controls let's let all this fractional Reserve Fiat Hocus Pocus literally impair itself 50% like literally have all this liquidity get sucked out of the global economy and like take our hands off the controls and it's death and destruction everywhere let's let it run for months right first of all you're gonna have Banks just blowing up everywhere you're going to
(20:24) have so much like chaos and destruction that like but let's just play scenario right because that's that's what would have to happen to try to um allow some of this to like slow down I just don't know that uh the the response that then has to come out of that isn't twice as much printing it's like 10 times as much printing to offset all the impairment and death and destruction in the economy and so I would suspect that they're actually going to accept accelerate the all of this by taking their hands off
(21:02) the controls for a extended period of time as opposed to slowing it down yeah no and even if there is a temporary period when they do take their hands off the wheels and the yield curve does un invert prices come down even if if you're one of these buyers like tether you're thinking all right maybe there's like a temporary lull but in the long run like even buying a 10-year treasury is still risk because within that 10 years things can completely change this is something else that that's changed just like very recently
(21:37) in my opinion you used to have uh complete Global cooperation between central banks because it benefited all of them collectively to continue to hey you know what you debase your currency for the next like year we'll allow ours the Titan and then after that like uh Rickards would use this uh analogy like you're passing the canteen around the campfire kind of thing like you can hit take a hit and then pass it and then the next person's going to take hit now you're in a situation where the bank of Japan and
(22:14) the US fed uh both of them are saying we need to drink from The Canteen at the same time like we can't even afford for you to take a sip like we need to be sipping out of this somehow at the the same exact time and because if we don't like we're both going to die is basically what we're seeing right now so that's a new Dynamic where where for all of these years they've been able to like kind of pass it around the campfire and now all of the sudden like we're on the cusp of like one of them dying and like they
(22:48) can't even afford to take turns so uh whatever that means this episode was presented by river river is the best most secure place to Bitcoin in the United States go to river.com tftc set up an account today you'll be able to DCA into Bitcoin without paying any fees you'll be able to give people Bitcoin via river links you'll be able to send and receive Bitcoin over the lightning Network and you'll be able to set limit orders if you want to buy Bitcoin at a particular price below or above where it
(23:18) is now you can set orders to buy Bitcoin when it hits that price go to river.com tftc set up your account today this episode of tftc was also brought to you by bit key bit key is Bitcoin made easy to use and hard to lose if your hardcore bitcoiner out there with friends and family members who have not gotten their Bitcoin off exchanges because they're worried without the complexity of Hardware wallets seed phrase backups this is why bit key exists bit key is collaborative custody you have a ergonomic Hardware device with biometric
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(24:16) their first bit key yeah no I mean obviously that's a big Topic in the macro economic landscape this week is the Y carry trade blowing out everybody's y carry trade expert now but I know that you've been covering it on your show and people have been talking about it for some time and it seems like last weekend was the first manifestation of the market realizing that the bank of Japan can't even raise rates by 15 bips without blowing up Global markets and and this is the key point on the on the
(24:51) Japanese trying to raise their their rates is inflation got up to 4% it was pretty sticky it's down at about 3% right now but they tried to raise their rates a quarter 25 bips right and they couldn't and it literally wrecked havoc and so think of it like how in the world is that possibly even remotely a free and open market when you're basically telling the the buyer of that to sign up for a guaranteed loss of you know close to 3% and that and that's being generous and um and I think they're they're also
(25:27) looking that the Buy of that is looking everywhere else in the world and they're saying this inflation isn't going away and yet they can't even raise 25 bips like the as you know the the bank came out and said when when things aren't stable we're we're never going to raise rates well well they raised rates when things were were quote unquote stable so like like what kind of statement is that it doesn't even make sense yeah so are we in the acceleration phase right now yeah yeah we are I think so I
(25:58) think this uh uh I think this coming year is going to get pretty exciting yeah what uh what do you see playing out from here because it seems like this week was a critical sort of checkpoint of people realizing oh [ __ ] like we are backed into a corner and yeah there's probably nothing we can do to fix this at this point uh I think so much of it comes down to the US election and some of this opinion is because I think markets are so manipulated so manipulated right right so I think that when you look at
(26:31) the the current Administration and I think that uh going into November the last thing they cannot have havoc in the markets that's why this hole got plugged so quickly I mean it was like the impairment and the selloff that was happening was like literally setting records and stuff there on Monday but then lo and behold the next day the Japanese Market bid 10% Like right back to where it was like uh so these markets are are if you think you're playing a fair game here in the traditional system you are not uh congratulations you're
(27:03) not um and I think that going into the election they got to do everything they can to just kind of keep it as stable as possible when we look at these unemployment numbers you can see that the that the system is trying to uh the impairment is really catching up and all this tightening that they did for the last two years to try to get the inflation under control is is peaked out you see credit cards maxed out to levels you haven't seen since 20 8 2009 um the everybody is is hurting for the most part as far as their ability to kind of
(27:36) deal with all of this these issues that are systemically uh Global and um so I think that they're going to do every little trick that they can to try to keep things as stable as possible if you see the market kind of throw a fit they're going to step in they're going to try to plug that hole up until November I think if you see uh and and this is is you know unpolitical as I can possibly be I think if the Democrats lose uh after November I think they're going to let the impairment like Cascade through
(28:09) the markets um I think if they win they're gonna they're going to start pumping it with you know as much liquidity as they possibly can we'll we'll see uh but get ready cuz like this thing is this thing is wanting to throw a fit almost like a child that's been locked in its room for like the whole day because they did something bad and they're like banging on the door that's kind of like where we're at with these markets right now like it it's throwing a fit it needs liquidity um they're
(28:40) feeding it the best they can to like keep things as stable as they can but uh yeah it's it's about to get spicy man one of the levers that the fed and the treasury have had to sort of introduce liquidity without doing over QE is reverse repo market and that seems to be draining rather quickly as well and so when that gets to zero that's another clock that goes off it's like we need to do something here and I believe it's below $500 billion do right now in terms of how much liquidity is in there I like
(29:14) to watch uh and Lynn watches this too uh the just the global M2 and um it's it has broken out uh just recently uh in the past month that has been going sideways for the last two years the global M2 which I think is probably one of the best indicators of just like Global liquidity so they're already feeding the Monster uh they're already you know dropping more liquidity into the market from a Global Perspective um then you just have to like look at all the all the all the M2 from around the world and
(29:49) kind of consolidate it and you'd see that it was going sideways for a good two years um but just like this past month it's starting to break out um when you look look at the trend of global M2 uh it's grinding on this bottom rail that it never goes through and this is in a in a the y axis is in a log terms I I don't have the chart to to pull up for you but um I find this to be a very important uh thing to look at from a the money in the system is expanding or the money in the system is Contracting so I
(30:22) I like to use this example of Monopoly to help people kind of to illustrate and for people to understand and uh why prices go down and why prices go up let me uh there you go and this is from last year so yeah that's an old chart so but you can see it going sideways and so that top that top blue line has broken out like it is now at new all-time highs um but this is this is the part I want people to really kind of take away when we talk about money okay we're talking about fiat currency we're not
(31:00) talking about like real money which is Bitcoin which is backed by energy and is scarce and like all those things but the currency when the currency expands and the currency contracts the prices of everything in inside of that pond think of it like a pond of water that's expanding and Contracting right most people think money or currency is the is that thing in their wallet that they paid for a Starbucks with okay it is not at least the majority of it is not very small portion of it are like those monetary Baseline
(31:33) units most of it are promises and these promises get broken and when they do they contract enormously so like going to this Monopoly everybody's familiar with Monopoly and everybody's familiar with when you pass go you collect $200 and the the the money supply is expanding and it's getting larger okay the currency is expanding and getting larger imagine we were playing this game but instead of collecting 200 that every time you go around you have to pay the banker like 500 okay and what's happening is the currency units are
(32:08) being extracted out of the game and as those currency units are being extracted out of the game what happens to the property values the equity the scarce equity on the board what happens to to that scarce equity on the board well as the next person comes around and they land on Parkplace and they don't have enough money what do they have to do well they become a forced seller of the property that they hold okay to come up with the payment for the obligation and the counterparty that they just incurred through landing on that spot on the
(32:41) board and so what happens is is a negotiation so they go oh well I have this railroad I'm gonna sell it I paid 400 for it but I'm desperate right now everybody on the board knows they're and everybody else on the board is dealing with the same Dynamic where they have to pay an additional 500 every time they could pass go so they're a little bit worried and they're they're concerned that they're not going to have enough cash flow because every time they roll the dice they have to pay out more and
(33:03) more money more and more currency so everybody starts lowballing the offer maybe you paid 400 for the for the you know the railroad but now you're forced to sell it for 300 okay because you have to come up with with the cash to fill your your counterparty and and your your obligation your debt obligation so then we keep playing this and the and the more and more cash is being sucked out of the board the more and more it's being played and so what's happening to the prices of all the properties on that
(33:35) board they're all going down of course they're going down there's less monetary units in the game and and as all these people are are paying out more than they're receiving they're having to recap everything at the table so when we see Bitcoin which has no counterparty risk okay versus all this Fiat that's in the system and the Fiat is drying up because of this thing called impairment and counterparty risk okay this is why in these moments where you have cascading impairment over in Japan
(34:10) and there's literally trillions of dollars wiped out because it's fractional Reserve based credit okay this is why Bitcoin goes down in those moments because guess what guess what Market was open Sunday night Bitcoin was open Sunday night right and you could convert it into dollars so that Monday morning at the open you could actually fulfill all of your counterparty risk you know derivatives and all the other garbage that people own they could they could actually fulfill that in the denomination that was required to
(34:39) fulfill it which was dollars or Euros or whatever this is why it goes down in these moments of tight liquidity and this is why it also goes up like if we go back to the Monopoly example let's say the the banker is adding ,000 every time somebody goes P go okay what do you think's going to happen to the prices well you want own the scarce Equity because it's the thing that actually cash flows you okay helps you make more money so you start getting into bidding wars of owning Parkplace or whatever the
(35:09) the the desirable properties are you you you almost can't pay enough for it especially if they're adding a lot of Fiat into the system so this is the game this is the global game this is how it works this is how things get recapitalized um and this is why Bitcoin is very sensitive to these liquidity uh Dynamics uh for people that you know look at and say oh I'm looking to on bitcoin it went down in the moment when I thought it should have gone up well you don't understand how the fractional Reserve System works and if you do well
(35:38) then you'd be there buying as much of it as possible because you know what they have to do next yeah yeah Sunday and Monday I was rolling over checking my phone seeing the price and smash buying and that it is counterintuitive right because like Bitcoin is This Global liquidity alarm system in both directions due to the nature which you described it trades 247 365 is extremely liquid and that is a value prop that people really have not internalized yet which is like it's this liquidity alarm Bell and when you have these liquidity
(36:13) events where people need to meet margin like yeah they're going to sell their Bitcoin first because it's the most liquid they're not going to be able to sell their real estate it's going to take a lot more time to sell their stocks and get the cash into their account or you have companies that allow you to liqu right away move to your bank account within minutes if you need to and that in it of itself is an extreme value prop uh as a as an asset just generally and broadly and again it's um
(36:43) many people pundits particularly on CNBC Bloomberg um think that Bitcoin is this Safe Haven asset which it is in the long term but in the short term due to its liquidity profile like it's going to be used if people are worried about their portfolios blowing up somewhere else and the beautiful thing is is the people that actually understand look at the accounts that have over a th000 Bitcoin or even 100 Bitcoin what were they doing during this this past week when we had this you know Swift selloff they were
(37:12) accumulating every one of them right because they actually understand the game and they understand what the heck's happening here and so Bitcoin flows into the hands of people that that don't have overexposure to counterparties it flows into the hands of net producers people that actually produce profits in the world um and you know that's that's the game like if you're if you're providing value to society you're able to acquire more Bitcoin that's how the game works yeah that's how the new game works that's how
(37:43) the new game works yeah and if you did that Monday morning when we when we tipped 49,000 you're already up 20% in four days less than four days because we're hovering right below 60,000 right now which is hard to believe like Bitcoin is extremely reflexive in both ctions and that's right over the long term it I mean more and more people are going to wake up to this and due to the supply demand Dynamics is naturally going to go up um and that's just like that's just one demand side thing like that that was
(38:13) another extremely bullish thing not only at the conference but it's becoming more of a wider Trend this year which is companies particularly publicly traded companies realizing that Bitcoin is this supreme Treasury asset and sailor putting the playbook out there and really diving into the logic behind it basically looking at the book value uh of his assets at any given point in time and looking at the premium that um that shareholders are putting on that via where the stock price is and just using that Delta to say all right
(38:49) we're going to issue converts or shares and buy Bitcoin with that and push that book value up slowly but surely over time and I think that's another incredibly bullish Catalyst for Bitcoin moving forward and I think it's a trend that's going to accelerate as well is these publicly traded companies using a micro strategy strategy to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible and actually have that be a creative to shareholders because if you do it correctly the um value of your shares is price in Bitcoin
(39:22) goes up yep if you're a profitable business just like at the individual level if you're a profitable business and uh you don't have to rely on uh you know next quarter we're we're not going to make any money if they're making money every quarter and they're plowing that in that excess into Bitcoin they can go out and they can do riskier things like you know uh convertible debt they can go out they can issue more common stock maybe they overpaid uh and the price was at you know 400,000 it came back down to
(39:56) 200,000 for two years and they over they overpaid for those two years but eventually it comes back like some of those Dynamics you can deal with that if you have a massive treasury like micro strategy and you're profitable you can do these types of things and it's almost like you have an additional like if we were going to look at the balance sheet of a business we'd say oh here's uh Microsoft okay so they have this asset which is Microsoft Excel they've got this asset which is their you know data
(40:25) centers you'd list out all the assets on their balance sheet that produce these specific revenues and profits you could make the argument that a company that understands Bitcoin and is profitable almost has like this hidden or secret additional asset on their balance sheet because of their ability to tap into public markets at screaming low uh yields relative to what an individual would pay or just you know common stock issuance the fact that they can take some of common stock when bitcoin's undervalued and issu them into the
(41:00) market and buy Bitcoin with it because that Dynamic is is a play on uh equities being capitalized at stupid traditional uh risk free rate yields at pees of 35 Plus or 20 even 25 35 Plus they're being capped based off of this old Legacy system and for people that actually understand how broke that system is and how unrealistic the risk profile is for these Market premiums um and they and they valuing the business and Bitcoin it makes sense to issue common stock and transmute it into Bitcoin because they they know that that
(41:40) the um the cap rates in a Bitcoin ice world will most likely be lower than 35 times earnings so that's that's that play that's how that's why it's basically like a hidden Mystery asset for a publicly traded company that be able to just go out into the open market and issue more stock or do you know convertible debt deals or whatever yeah with that in mind like is that is this a way like you manufacture somewhat of a soft Landing it's just everybody's looking at the treasury market what's going on there the Yen
(42:12) carry trade the central banks and governments are in this extremely precarious position and is it on the free market in terms of individuals individual companies sort of saving themselves letting the debt situation run its course as quickly or slowly as it needs to and then you look back at some point in the next decade or two it's like oh all the companies that Acquire Bitcoin as quickly as possible are still standing and the ones that didn't are in a much worse off position but the net of the net effect of the companies that
(42:54) decide to do it doing it is actually massively beneficial because they're able to still provide valuable services and goods to the market um and if they sort of kept piggybacking on the dependence of governments and central banks to properly maintain their systems that um they get left behind you can see the smirk on my face uh so I think that for this to have a back stop and for it to to more Gra gradually transition over to a Bitcoin eyes World in a is it more stable I don't there's Arguments for both sides
(43:35) of that but let's say that you have this the Bitcoin provides this back back stop to the Legacy debauchery and it like slowly transitions over to this new system for that to happen I think there's two things that need to play out first governments actually have to understand why they need to do this on a on a collective level especially the large L uh G7 type countries they have to deeply understand why they need to back it why they why they actually need a market on the long end of the of the debt curve like all of those things they
(44:09) have to understand that so is that possible sure are we there right now I don't think we're even close um maybe that's me just being pessimistic I don't know but I don't think they're even close to taking a step in that direction even though uh like Kennedy's laid it out like he's laid that out that he thinks that that the yield the long end of the curve needs to be backed and all that kind of stuff so you do have people talking about it I'm just very suspect of whether you can do this for a majority
(44:37) of these nation states without there without there being a race almost like a gold rush to bitcoin which then accelerates everything okay so that's the first concern the second point would be you have to then convince the the marginal buyers that they need to assume this risk of buying the long end of the curve and not just buying the short duration strategy that I was describing earlier where like Paulo was like smirking at me and laughing at me like why would I do that I don't have to think that hard I can just take this ve
(45:09) really lowrisk approach and just keep only buying the short duration stuff and so the two of those things combined is why I'm a little skeptical as to whether it's going to serve as a back stop for this like slow transition over to this new system um but again I might be you know I'm a hardcore bitcoiner like everybody else maybe uh maybe I'm biased whatever but those are the two things that I think have to happen in order for it to maybe slow roll a little bit and that's not my base case no it's not mine either
(45:44) trying to put white pills out there but another white pill is like that doesn't happen and you have this massive reset of asset valuations particularly hard assets that people need to produce goods and services in the economy and I think tur deer has articulated this the best is that as the price of Bitcoin goes up like in terms of where bitcoiners stand on the economic rungs just they get higher and higher in terms of where they fall in the top 10% top 5% top 1% 0.1% eventually as Bitcoin gets into six
(46:19) figures and um you have to imagine bitcoiners were smart enough to get into Bitcoin um at any point between 2009 and now and that was a wise decision from an economic perspective and if you do have a Calamity of markets and people are for sellers of assets bitcoiners can swoop in get them at good valuations and hopefully run good businesses and come in and be the war and buffets of uh the late 2020s early 2030s in terms of coming in buying cheap assets and making sure that they actually run profitably because bitcoiners have that mindset
(46:56) like coin is the opportunity cost I'm going to go buy something it better be producing cash flows and profits so I can shovel back into Bitcoin one thing's for sure the just by the sheer way that the fractional Reserve Legacy system works there are so many zombies out there business-wise that uh I mean they're going to be just decapitated in this transition like massively decapitated and um when I look at this especially from an structure standpoint when you look at the us or you look at Europe and
(47:30) you look at a lot of like developed uh Nation States they're going to have to retool all of that infrastructure through this transition where you know a lot of these businesses would have just gone belly up if there wasn't this Fiat printing press just keeping everybody alive and and basically like a mother bird just feeding all the babies all all day long um so that transition of all that capex all that physical stuff is going to be uh quite a burden for developed nation states for uh for uh the global South where you don't have
(48:09) as much infrastructure and you are almost starting from like a clean slate I think that that's going to be a tremendous benefit as as uh more and more Capital flows into these markets and I think that it's going to be a benefit because they don't have to retool and re-engineer something it almost be like I have a complex machine behind me and I and through this transition I have to figure out a way to like still make it useful and I have to regear it and re you know do all these types of things and that's a lot of work
(48:38) that's a lot of effort to do that but if I could just literally start from from nothing it's actually I can build it way more efficiently and more quickly and more effectively for the value prop to society so I think that's a little bit of the Ying the yin and the Yang for uh like what it's going to be like to go through this transition from a very developed Nation State versus one that's not um and uh it's going to be interesting to see how the world basically retools itself and re-engineers itself from an
(49:06) infrastructure standpoint yeah yeah I have dreams T and I have dreams of um starting a brick Factory to uh yeah because the uh we had a an event at the commons earlier this year with Austin tanell um who does incredible brick masonry and one of the things he said is like in this Fiat world where look at like where I'm at right now this house was built 20 years ago plastic siding plastic deviders like you the incentives were such you just buy the cheap crap and disincentivize the more expensive but more durable uh building materials
(49:46) like brick and that's one thing that Austin um helped us realizes that like it's hard for him to find good brick because there's no brick factories anymore because everybody's been disincentive and that's one thing where yes the topics that we're talking about can be heavy in the sense that we're talking about a debt spiral and economic collapse and not economic collapse but a repricing of many assets companies and um Financial assets that exist in the world um but it's a necessary rearching
(50:20) of the incentives to go invest and build not only durable companies but companies that produce durable Goods that can lead to d Housing and other things in the economy yeah totally what what worked before is completely antithetical to what's going to work moving forward and and I think if you were looking at uh you know where where did that pendulum Peak and where is it starting to swing back I think that Co might be a pretty good uh you know 2020 you had the you basically had the the fixed income markets Peg thems at like 50 bips on the
(50:58) 10-year treasury I would say that that was literally the peak of the bull market and fixed income of the Legacy system and I think everything spinning the opposite way from here on out is only going to pick up steam so you know how did you make money in masonry well you came up with the cheapest uh cost cutting that still looked like it was real brick even though it wasn't it was just complete garbage that worked especially at the very end of that cycle so like what's going to work moving forward well that stuff is still going
(51:26) to work as we as we're coming out of this but as you get further and further 10 years from now like there's going to be demand for like higher quality building materials because the pendulum's now swinging the other way um and so people that are listening to this that are wanting to create value in society moving forward I would just tell you like take a close look examine what worked really well for the last 40 years invert it and uh try to make sure that you get your timing right because a lot
(51:53) of this a lot of the incentives are just being completely rewired almost like you micro doed uh a human's brain and it's like rewiring itself or something yeah and I think we particularly have a front row seat to this being evolved with 1031 and ego death and applying this framework to the businesses that we're investing in that are building Bitcoin infrastructure and that's why I feel very fortunate have the position that I do a 1031 and I'm sure you feel the same way with ego death is that the founders that
(52:26) were backing our hardcore bitcoiners and internalized the this inversion that you just described like Bitcoin is the hurdle rate not only for Investments that you're making in public equities markets or anywhere else but if you're building a company and you have to allocate Capital um to hire new people or invest in certain R&D you have to weigh the opportunity cost of doesn't make sense to spend this on a new higher a new R&D effort or should I just by Bitcoin and that really forces the
(53:00) leaders of these companies and the people working with Excuse me within these companies to be as efficient as possible from a capital allocation it better be a value prop because if it's not like good luck out pacing 50% or whatever hurdle rate you you want to assign to bitcoin but I would say it's like 50% annualized um Good Luck like that's one hell of a hurdle rate I you know I did traditional Investing For All These Years uh before I even came into Bitcoin and it was like you know a hurdle rate of like 10% was
(53:32) pretty aggressive 15% that was like you were you were performing really well and like 50% was like literally you get laughed out of the room but like I know from an investment standpoint especially in early like startups like if it's not that like I'm sorry it's just not enough it's not enough of a return to like yeah I mean Jack MERS from Strike he spoke at the park at our event earli he had it even higher he's like our hurdle rate like 65% it's like when we allocate Capital it's like do you think that this
(54:04) investment this new higher this new product can create 65% growth on our our revenues and it's like holy crap when you put it that way but that just like having that framework alone is again a complete inversion to yeah the way of the VC world for the last three four decades which was raise as much as possible don't worry about Revenue don't worry about profitability just acquire new users and pump those monthly active user numbers as much as possible Marty this is the crazy part is people who are
(54:37) listening to this be like well that's because they're in VC right but I can tell you right now if you don't think Michael sailor's hurdle rates like 50% for what he does with his profits you you don't understand Michael sailor and you don't understand what he's doing because even as a large cap company and I would argue this is for every company in the world right now their hurdle rate is 50% whether they know it or not like that's the hurdle rate at least in my humble opinion and I
(55:07) think it's safe to say most people do not understand that that's a hurdle rate they're probably making unwise decisions no way no way so where do you think that where do you think we go this cycle because it does it I mean it and I've talked about this uh on a couple shows this week but it really hit me um at the conference we did a live Rabbit Hole recap and that was a great sort of event to compare to the first Bitcoin conference in 2019 in San Francisco where we also did a live Rabbit Hole recap and in Nashville this
(55:45) year we sold out a venue 600 plus people incredible show in 2019 the conference was literally in a parking garage in San Francisco and we did the live show on a picnic bench uh with really cheap mics and it was just literally there was probably like 50 to 75 people huddled around this picnic bench while we're doing a live show The Glory Days yeah the Glory Days but it was only five years ago and to think that in just five years this conference went from a parking garage uh in San Francisco where the keynote speaker was Alex mashinsky
(56:21) uh Zack Prince and now fast forward five years it's a Nashville tens of thousands of people uh presidential candidates speaking and talking about how they want to acquire Bitcoin like this is this is what hyperbitcoinization looks like yeah and totally when you're in the industry and you're uh involved in the day-to-day minutia of trying to push things forward it can get um I don't want to say disheartening but you can lose perspective of how fast things are actually happening and I think this
(56:53) year's conference for me personally was a huge zoom out moment like holy crap we've come a long way in a relatively short amount of time which then begs the question like where do we go from here like if it's accelerating like this and you have all these fundamental structural problems in the incumbent financial and uh government debt Arena like the thing is is it's not linear so like when we're looking at the data point from 5 years ago to this data point people would look at that and be
(57:25) like okay so in 5 years maybe it's here it's not linear this is exponential so whatever growth we had over those Last 5 Years it's going to even be more aggressive in the coming five years like I think it's going to be way more aggressive and uh you know you can you can continue to listen to this stuff and sit around and be like yeah there I I can't refute anything they're saying and then not take action or you can take action and people need to take action especially right now I think the I think
(57:57) I think by the end of 2025 it's going to be Gang Busters man I don't know what price it is in Fiat terms but um I think that the last cycle had a lot of shenanigans uh I think the last cycle had a lot of government shenanigans that were disguised as corporate Shenanigans um and and what evidence I have for that I have zero evidence for that it's just a hunch um but if true and if there were you know a bunch of selling that normally wouldn't have happened uh without you know some real uh mysterious and Bad actors
(58:37) involved um because what that what that created in my humble opinion is is a whole lot more selling than what you would have saw and I think you had a whole lot of uh uh Supply Suffocation that's happened through that process heck I even think that you have a lot of that still happening especially with these these the size of these ETFs the fact that they never have an outflow day they just you know they just keep stacking more Bitcoin per per share of of ETF that's out there the fact that you have Germany you know basically
(59:09) dumping their bags and then the next week the Department of Justice is dumping their bags and you know all the lawyers will tell you oh it was forecasted we should have known this was I'm looking at I'm saying this whole freaking thing is so corrupted and so orchestrated so that uh the people that have finally figured out what the heck's happening and let me preface this I think people that control a lot of buying power in the world have finally figured this out and I think that they're doing everything that they can
(59:37) to to you know take a position size now whether it's a large position size or what or just a hedge I don't know but they're figuring it out um just look at the people that came to the conference in Nashville like they're figuring it out so hang on because uh you can only mask things for so long uh especially when the entire blockchain of Bitcoin is auditable you can see how many coins there are you can see the the public addresses and um hang on hang on I think it's I think it's going to be really
(1:00:09) exciting yeah and it has been interesting Again The Five-Year change has been massive like you just mentioned the people that were at this conference were not at the conference five years ago and that's a bit disconcerting for some people that have been around for a while but I think it's important to help bitcoiners have been around for a while is sort of uncomfortable with uh the people that are coming to bitcoin understand like this is like you said an open permissionless system and the value prop of Bitcoin is so strong
(1:00:41) that you have to expect that these people are going to wake up to it and want to get exposure to it as well and it's not a bad thing if anything it's a validation of everything we've been opining about for the last 15 years it's people are finally waking up to it yes you may not agree with how their businesses have been run and what they've done to the financial system up to this point but like you just mentioned they realize something's wrong and there's only one Escape Route and
(1:01:09) it's via Bitcoin and they're going to use that if they understand that and have access to it um they they're finally getting wrecked in fixed income like it's been an absolute bludgeoning and that's the trade that's that's always worked for their entire life and I think that that Reckoning over since 22 like where they're just getting crushed is one of the main reasons why they're they're desperately searching because they're looking at equities and they're saying all right I don't want to
(1:01:34) pay 35 times earnings like th that's those yields are you know absurd like they're terrible uh is it going to keep going up and nominal Fiat terms yeah it's probably going to go to PES of 45 for on this next you know two years or three years it's it's only going to get crazier but um they're looking at this and they understand the math and they're saying I got to go somewhere there has to be something out there like how does this thing resolve it I'm getting my face ripped off on on all this these
(1:01:59) bonds that I used to make so much money on and that's why some of them are slowly starting to figure out that this is where this is all moving um and and I think that that's only going to get more and more emphasized as as fixed income becomes even more terrible moving forward which it definitely will so yeah yeah and this is again it's disconcerting for a lot of people but you you have to expect it like anybody can use they going to use it and this is beneficial overall people worry about all this um all of Wall
(1:02:34) Street getting into Bitcoin being a threat to the decentralized and permissionless nature of the protocol but just be vigilant and make sure that you're doing your part to support open- Source wallet projects uh help distribute hash rate as much as possible run your full node and um it's counterintuitive but all this money coming in is also massively beneficial for the um the small individuals who are using Bitcoin whether that's here in the US or in emergent markets like bitcoin price going up benefits everybody who
(1:03:08) holds Bitcoin um the large institutions and the the plebs if you will and Marty everything you just said is how you actually vote that's modern voting right there right if somebody says Preston did you vote no I run my own full note of course I voted that's how you do it like we have got to suck the monetary energy out of this this disgusting Beast which is the Legacy Fiat fractional Reserve credit-based boond doggle System and uh run your own node you know if if you can mine mine like do everything you can to support this
(1:03:50) system uh and ensure its decentralization and I I just don't know how else you can go about making a better world than than doing those activities that you described no and I do think there are people not only in on Wall Street but within the government I think the park the the Fireside conversations that happened at the park with Cynthia lumus Senator hagy Governor Bill Lee the Attorney General of Tennessee um Mr lash from the Tennessee Valley Authority like particularly at the state level there are politicians to
(1:04:27) recognize that things are pretty bad at the federal level and they're doing their best to um bolster their local economies and recognize that Bitcoin is a way to do that and they want to be uh receiving Bitcoin businesses and individuals with open arms and actually working with the industry that's a lot of people thought the conference was a lot of pandering which there definitely was a lot of pandering and there were many politicians in town that week to raise money for their campaigns heading into an election season but there was also
(1:05:01) genuine engagement in terms of an open two-way conversation at least between the politicians from Tennessee and the community really trying to constructively walk through like what can we do to make business easier for you and how can you guys help us achieve some of our goals particularly around power generation expansion and things like that huge shout out to rod to uh Matt Odell uh all the people there at and Josh at Bitcoin Park uh these guys are uh wow if you've never been to bitcoin Park in Nashville I can't talk
(1:05:39) it up enough it's unbelievable um and if there's a state that has their act together it is Tennessee um these people I can't even tell you how many times I've been to bitcoin Park and somebody either either the senator themselves are there or somebody from their staff is there um trying to truly learn like what is this movement all about like it's not fake like I've been up there enough times to like be able to tell like do do they just want money or are they actually trying to understand this and
(1:06:14) I'm telling you it's well it's both they probably do want money but they're really trying to understand it like deeply at least eight times I've been up there and every time somebody at least somebody from the staff of a US senator or representative is there trying to understand it so that's bullish like hey that's good like uh am I pandering to them of course not like hey if they figure it out they figure it out um but there there are people especially in the state of Tennessee that are really
(1:06:43) leaning into this uh some other states have a lot to figure out yeah and this is and that's what you want to see too the Grassroots you don't need a dick tot from the federal level to say all right you guys can play with this thing have fun playing with your Bitcoin and your crypto and we're going to give you the green light like that is a manifestation of a Grassroots movement individual State saying all right we're going to do the homework we're not going to be dependent on the federal
(1:07:13) government to lead the way here we're going to we're going to do our own homework and try to lead ourselves and make sure that we're not dependent on anybody outside of these borders I'm laughing because you said play with your Bitcoin which the trunk quot God tell me you're all playing you're having fun playing with your Bitcoin so stupid it was but there were there his I was there for a speech and it was it felt like a 30 minute standup set with some policy talk at the end there was yeah there was a feel like that yeah
(1:07:49) yeah and he but he did have like he did acknowledge something that I think um was was like a good signal which is that like what you guys have done in 15 years and paraphrasing here obviously but like the Vitality of the community and the love of freedom and really trying to take action to make sure that freedom Reigns in United States is inspiring and yeah it is it's not going to be easy I say I think again hearkening back to all the structural financial problems that we discussed earlier like it's not going
(1:08:23) to be easy it's going to take rolling up your sleeves getting your hands dirty and actually going out there and building the new system that we will eventually transition to it's not going to be smooth ride um but it can be you can make it Smoother by rolling up your sleeves and getting to work I I think the the biggest challenge this country in particular has and and really any kind of developed Nation at this point uh the biggest challenge that they have isn't getting Bitcoin on their balance sheet or incorporating it into the yield
(1:08:52) curve like all those things are solutions the real issue is the cognitive conditioning of the free handout how do you turn that around quickly when uh everybody not everybody I hate using the word everybody a large portion of the populace has become addicted to the to the money printer to the heroin of the money printer that's going to be the thing that's really difficult because let's say you load up the treasury with Bitcoin and you well positioned yourself and all these things which you which you can't just turn on a
(1:09:27) dime like what I just described which is having a Bitcoin strategy is the minds of all these people that are looking for a handout that's the thing that's going to be really challenging because those are the people that are going to drain that treasury faster than you can blink your eye yeah and that's I mean that's the and something I think about often is like I think it's objectively true you have to find a way to make a convincing argument that all these handouts are making the worse off I mean obviously
(1:09:58) you have sites like WTF happened in 1971 Thomas Soul has been beating the shum for decades but there there's um a bunch of cognitive dissonance that exists that for some reason or another doesn't enable people to realize that this is actually not the long-term benefit of yeah their overall quality of life for economic standing and I think they're I don't know if we don't need to like think tank this but they're waiting not waiting but like trying to think through like what is the the killer narrative in terms of helping
(1:10:33) people realize that this actually is not good for you despite the fact that you think it may be that's the thing that doesn't turn on a dime that's the thing that's going to take time because you have to you have to recondition them to think in terms of longterm as opposed to short-term interest that the expense of the long term and uh self- responsibility and self ownership like all of those things are wrapped into that that issue that plagues developed Nations right now yeah I mean you just
(1:11:02) look over to Venezuela what was a very strong developed economy at the beginning of this century did not take long for it to devolve um into a hellscape less than two decades and I think that's what people in the United States had to realize and come to grips with we're not immune to that like that could happen here we may be in the process of that happening here just the earlier stages of like Venezuela 2006 2007 yeah totally so you optimistic uh am I optimistic for myself and my family and like my close friends
(1:11:47) that are big yes very optimistic am I optimistic on a net basis for society I don't know uh I am long-term ter for sure in the short term I think there's plenty of pain to to kind of come uh so it's I guess it's a nuanced I'm I'm not trying to avoid the question but it's very nuanced depending on like what scale or like what level I'm kind of viewing it um but you know I think that it's very optimistic that we that we're going to have a way more fair system through all of this way more fair and uh
(1:12:21) way more constructive um because at the end of the day if you create value like you you get to you know keep it and you can use it on a rainy day however you see fit as opposed to it just constantly being stolen out of your pocket without you being able being able to control it so it's very exciting from that regard I'm very optimistic with respect to that yeah we're going to win it's going to take time uh it's goingon to be bumpy road but um we're the generation that has to uh suffer the consequences of over A
(1:12:53) Century of poor Capital allocation and decisions at the monetary system level um you can't pick it it's not like you're born you can pick to be born at a particular point in time but it's just something we have to deal with and I think yeah like you said the quicker people recognize this and make the mental switch to be productive and try to work on the solutions the better they they're definitely multiple paths through which this transition can go longer shorter medium term and I think it's up to individuals taking agency and
(1:13:29) really um internalizing these ideas and taking action to that will dictate what the transition looks like and how quickly or slowly it happens yeah just take ownership like you can you can make this just an incredible experience for yourself moving forward you know you just have to take self- responsibility you have to provide value to for the world and then you have to you know store that value in something that's desirable and uh a creative and I think we know what that last part is maybe some of the other stuff people have to sort out but
(1:14:02) uh what an ex Marty I would if I could pick any point in time to live like this is it baby this is it like why in the world would you not want to be in this moment right now this is insane this is incredible how exciting as uh Lord Littlefinger Bish once said chaos is a ladder um that's right you can climb that ladder if you know what you're doing at this particular jure in time which I think um I think you're doing an incredible job to help as many people wake up to this so really appreciate you
(1:14:35) coming on and talking through these ideas today because um it was it was uh a joy hanging out with you at the park uh in Nashville and talking about some of these ideas and um likewise the most exciting thing is like you're bitcoiners very Solutions focused and that's what that's what gives me optimism like yes the ideas don't don't stick immediately but you're thinking of ways to get creative think out of the box and help drive solutions to a world with structural problems well thank you for that and I
(1:15:08) feel the same way about you buddy truly truly um this has been just fun really fun and I'm looking forward to playing darts with you in Ria by the way yes yes I uh I think Paul toy is gonna be there too maybe we can get him uh we need to get we we need to get the gang together and and play our darts yeah I've uh to let you know I've been practicing my cousin has a dart board in his garage down here we've been playing all summer so my B did you play the game did playing baseball oh you've been
(1:15:41) playing baseball okay yeah not killer not killer my favorite game yeah and that's where you get like pre-ordained numbers and you gota yes got well you throw it yeah you throw it get your number that you threw yeah and then it's try to kill the other players yeah yeah it's a fun game all right darts in two weeks in rega cannot wait can't wait um appreciate your time thank you sir and I appreciate uh you bringing me on your platform I really do all right peace and love freaks
